new Bill in senate

[MelissaNJ]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/27/fat...ton-obama.htmlApparently to benefit health care the government feels they have the right to tax whatever they want. Are companies not allowed to be successful? I thought the reason we rebelled against England was because of taxes.
Rebel time anyone?

[FullMetal]

Why cant they be like canada, i dont understand the US medical care system

[Italian Jew]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/27/fat...ton-obama.htmlApparently to benefit health care the government feels they have the right to tax whatever they want. Are companies not allowed to be successful? I thought the reason we rebelled against England was because of taxes.
Rebel time anyone?

We rebelled against England because of taxation without representation. You can still complain about it to your congressman, so just stop being ridiculous.


This isn't a bill anyway. It isn't in any final version of whatever healthcare stuff they are working on, but some congressmen are talking about it. The article just cites a study done by UVA and how it could help with the budget.

Why cant they be like canada, i dont understand the US medical care system

Nobody wants to be like Canada. Nobody understands our healthcare system or your healthcare system. As a matter of fact healthcare systems are just big questions marks just like everything else involving large groups of people.

[Mikey]

We rebelled against England because of taxation without representation. You can still complain about it to your congressman, so just stop being ridiculous.


This isn't a bill anyway. It isn't in any final version of whatever healthcare stuff they are working on, but some congressmen are talking about it. The article just cites a study done by UVA and how it could help with the budget.




Nobody wants to be like Canada. Nobody understands our healthcare system or your healthcare system. As a matter of fact healthcare systems are just big questions marks just like everything else involving large groups of people.

pwn












and to not sound trollish.




You have very good points there Jew

[FullMetal]

We rebelled against England because of taxation without representation. You can still complain about it to your congressman, so just stop being ridiculous.


This isn't a bill anyway. It isn't in any final version of whatever healthcare stuff they are working on, but some congressmen are talking about it. The article just cites a study done by UVA and how it could help with the budget.




Nobody wants to be like Canada. Nobody understands our healthcare system or your healthcare system. As a matter of fact healthcare systems are just big questions marks just like everything else involving large groups of people.

if it works it works

[Hunt3r.j2]

if it works it works

Canada's shit is bad.

Most everyone in the US has healthcare, the majority who don't have it don't want it but can afford it, and those who want it and can't afford it have a large majority who are illegal aliens.

If it really turns bad anyone can go to an ER and not have to pay anyway.

On a separate point, have insurance BEFORE you get sick. Car insurance dudes will not insure a car that you crashed 5 minutes ago. If you lie about something important and they find out, you're going to lose your coverage. Don't complain, because your lie got found out.

[LegalSmash]

Canada's shit is bad.

Most everyone in the US has healthcare, the majority who don't have it don't want it but can afford it, and those who want it and can't afford it have a large majority who are illegal aliens.

NO, you are TOTALLY wrong, where are you getting that? 60% is not "most", its at best, half to two thirds.

If it really turns bad anyone can go to an ER and not have to pay anyway.

out the ass, my uncle's trip to the ER for a heart attack (which he drove himself, and stayed over 2 nights, was 130K

On a separate point, have insurance BEFORE you get sick. Car insurance dudes will not insure a car that you crashed 5 minutes ago. If you lie about something important and they find out, you're going to lose your coverage. Don't complain, because your lie got found out.

Do you not understand the basic problem with health insurance as a commodity? People SHOULDNT have to pay money, to pay MORE money in CASE they get sick. The doctor-patient relationship should be a direct exchange, not one with a middleman who's sole purpose is to make a dollar (or 300 a pay period) on admission.

Seriously, if you don't learn anything from me at all but one thing, learn that the medical industry in this country was FINE until insurance companies came out in the 1950s and 60s. Prior to that, a person went to the doctor for check ups as a child, when ill enough to miss work, or to the hospital for REAL emergencies... people took care of themselves because health = work days, whereas sickness = no pay. In the world we now live in, a person goes to the doctor for whatever-the-fuck because its so damned plentiful if you pay admission (insurance), making service scarce and overwhelmed with shit cases, spurned by the ad-whore-ness of Pharm companies trying to make medicine for everything from limp dick syndrome to Restless leg. It's ridiculous.

Illness treatment should be secondary to illness prevention, and I guarantee you that the US would have not only cheaper, affordable health care, but a healthier population... in other words

Treating Diabetes should be 2 on scale, compared to 'PREVENTING FUCKING DIABETES" by limiting the intake of high fructose corn syrup (in EVERYTHING) to school children, and requiring mandatory physical fitness in K-12 education. New tits, color contacts, cock medicine, and antidepressants should be list numbers 4-8 on a scale of urgency because they are not really necessary. There is no reason why ADD medicine should be covered by health insurance, let alone even considered a serious problem... its a pharmaceutical company's boon on making an excuse for shitty white parents who can't be brought to give their kids a good ol' fashioned Asian mom uppercut.

Lastly, Canada's system is fucked because Canada serves EVERYONE with healthcare. This is called a single payer system, go see the other healthcare thread, and my posts on the differences. Canada sucks because they use this system.

The system being argued for here, prior to more anal rape of the original bill is one where people who can afford healthcare and want to buy from companies CAN do so, at reasonable rates (because they are jew-unreasonable, ask your parents how much child healthcare runs), and those that CANNOT afford it from companies can get it from the government through a medicaid/medicare like program, with limited choice and location, as well as generally generic prescription choices... in other words, they'll fix your broken arm, but not your bullemia.... generally people who are poor don't have bullemia as a problem.

The secondary part is people who WANT to buy, and can pay, CAN buy from the government at a reasonable rate comparable or lower than the insurance company, albeit with the same concessions as the medicaid/medicare people. Its an individual contribution by the purchaser, NOT a global effect tax on everything to effect this means of coverage.


Compared with Canada, where a global tax on everything covers everyone, everything, and everywhere, but with long waits and referrals, this system is uniquely American in design: Free market controls, government can enter as a market participant,and as a market regulator. If you don't think this is right, read constitutional law for the past 200 years, its legal, its all in there, and its part of our awesome nation's ability to cope with issues.

The people arguing against it are one of three varieties:

1. Politicians that have stake in healthcare companies, stock, contributions, etc. When HC companies are put to compete, they have to be competitive. Right now, being the only game in town, they can charge whatever-the-fuck they want, if a cheaper, more affordable, but not necessarily lowballing alternative is available, they must compete or die... hello capitalism. The companies don't like this because they have to lower prices to remain competitive to ensure purchasers go to them... this cuts into their HUGE fucking profits. Despite being economically conservative, a lawyer, and a capitalist, I don't have a problem with this... we as a nation need a healthy, and more important, SOLVENT citizenry. Going to the hospital should not put you in bankruptcy, and paying premiums to PAY more in CASE you have to go to the hospital should definitely not make life so unaffordable that you have to decide between mortgage, insurance, or food.

As an aside, I never expected ANY of the politicians to go on the idea of a single payer system because all of them, Dem and GOP are ALL knees deep into the healthcare lobby. The HC industry has enough money to donate to and partially fund BOTH parties in EVERY state and national election since 1980s... what does that tell you about where our politicians stand?

2. People making over 250K a year who may endure a tax increase. Good. Fuck them. The top 5% have received over the past 8 years numerous tax cuts, whereas the remainder of us have paid piecemeal throughout. Additionally, they don't pay Medicare or FICA tax after 105K... imho, the unfairness of that right there is enough to warrant an increase. In 1952-1960, the greatest conservative president ever, Dwight Eisenhower (who actually served in wartime, twice, was religiously conservative but not a Jesus-pushing evangelical, and dealt with the sticky issue of race, successfully... unlike the GOP's past 3 entries), KEPT the highest marginal rate at 92%, as per wartime taxes in order to continue to fund the economy. In an era when people's average income ranged from 1200 to 3000 a year, the highest income earners, 100,000 and up, where paying 92%... This was not because he was anti-rich, or communist, etc. It was because the nation needed to cover the cost of the Korean Conflict, two economic downturns, and the mounting cost of the wounded and the GI bill recipients from WWII and Korea, IN ADDITION TO the extraordinary boom in building and highway construction. Did people get by with less? Absolutely. Did it benefit us in the end? Absolutely... just take a drive from Maine to Key West, and then imagine doing that on dirt state highways.

The increase contemplated is 5%, raising the max required to about 39-40%, the amount it was at during clinton, and LESS than it was for much of Reagan's presidency (up to 1986 it was 72%). IMHO, people need to live within their means, its sad and disturbing when someone making 250K a year can STILL manage to live in debt up to their eyeballs on credit due to keeping up with the Jones'. If these folks, who have taken tax breaks and cuts at our expense (as the american public) for years can't manage their money at 250K + they need some fucking financial counseling, not more leniency in what they owe.

3. Imbeciles who just want to disagree for the sake of doing so. I'm really not going to go further into this than that.

[PotshotPolka]

The American healthcare system isn't "bad" it's expensive, the public sector Medicaid/Medicare plans are generating massive deficits each year. That's what this plan is about, getting enough leverage over private providers and then cutting the price floor out from under them to reduce costs, albeit artificially, or they may as I've believe is included in the bill also cap premiums.

These threads need to stop replicating and pumping out 10 pages of senseless fist smashing on keyboards.

[XeNo]

Do you not understand the basic problem with health insurance as a commodity? People SHOULDNT have to pay money, to pay MORE money in CASE they get sick. The doctor-patient relationship should be a direct exchange, not one with a middleman who's sole purpose is to make a dollar (or 300 a pay period) on admission.

Seriously, if you don't learn anything from me at all but one thing, learn that the medical industry in this country was FINE until insurance companies came out in the 1950s and 60s. Prior to that, a person went to the doctor for check ups as a child, when ill enough to miss work, or to the hospital for REAL emergencies... people took care of themselves because health = work days, whereas sickness = no pay. In the world we now live in, a person goes to the doctor for whatever-the-fuck because its so damned plentiful if you pay admission (insurance), making service scarce and overwhelmed with shit cases, spurned by the ad-whore-ness of Pharm companies trying to make medicine for everything from limp dick syndrome to Restless leg. It's ridiculous.

Illness treatment should be secondary to illness prevention, and I guarantee you that the US would have not only cheaper, affordable health care, but a healthier population... in other words

Treating Diabetes should be 2 on scale, compared to 'PREVENTING FUCKING DIABETES" by limiting the intake of high fructose corn syrup (in EVERYTHING) to school children, and requiring mandatory physical fitness in K-12 education. New tits, color contacts, cock medicine, and antidepressants should be list numbers 4-8 on a scale of urgency because they are not really necessary. There is no reason why ADD medicine should be covered by health insurance, let alone even considered a serious problem... its a pharmaceutical company's boon on making an excuse for shitty white parents who can't be brought to give their kids a good ol' fashioned Asian mom uppercut.

Lastly, Canada's system is fucked because Canada serves EVERYONE with healthcare. This is called a single payer system, go see the other healthcare thread, and my posts on the differences. Canada sucks because they use this system.

The system being argued for here, prior to more anal rape of the original bill is one where people who can afford healthcare and want to buy from companies CAN do so, at reasonable rates (because they are jew-unreasonable, ask your parents how much child healthcare runs), and those that CANNOT afford it from companies can get it from the government through a medicaid/medicare like program, with limited choice and location, as well as generally generic prescription choices... in other words, they'll fix your broken arm, but not your bullemia.... generally people who are poor don't have bullemia as a problem.

The secondary part is people who WANT to buy, and can pay, CAN buy from the government at a reasonable rate comparable or lower than the insurance company, albeit with the same concessions as the medicaid/medicare people. Its an individual contribution by the purchaser, NOT a global effect tax on everything to effect this means of coverage.


Compared with Canada, where a global tax on everything covers everyone, everything, and everywhere, but with long waits and referrals, this system is uniquely American in design: Free market controls, government can enter as a market participant,and as a market regulator. If you don't think this is right, read constitutional law for the past 200 years, its legal, its all in there, and its part of our awesome nation's ability to cope with issues.

The people arguing against it are one of three varieties:

1. Politicians that have stake in healthcare companies, stock, contributions, etc. When HC companies are put to compete, they have to be competitive. Right now, being the only game in town, they can charge whatever-the-fuck they want, if a cheaper, more affordable, but not necessarily lowballing alternative is available, they must compete or die... hello capitalism. The companies don't like this because they have to lower prices to remain competitive to ensure purchasers go to them... this cuts into their HUGE fucking profits. Despite being economically conservative, a lawyer, and a capitalist, I don't have a problem with this... we as a nation need a healthy, and more important, SOLVENT citizenry. Going to the hospital should not put you in bankruptcy, and paying premiums to PAY more in CASE you have to go to the hospital should definitely not make life so unaffordable that you have to decide between mortgage, insurance, or food.

As an aside, I never expected ANY of the politicians to go on the idea of a single payer system because all of them, Dem and GOP are ALL knees deep into the healthcare lobby. The HC industry has enough money to donate to and partially fund BOTH parties in EVERY state and national election since 1980s... what does that tell you about where our politicians stand?

2. People making over 250K a year who may endure a tax increase. Good. Fuck them. The top 5% have received over the past 8 years numerous tax cuts, whereas the remainder of us have paid piecemeal throughout. Additionally, they don't pay Medicare or FICA tax after 105K... imho, the unfairness of that right there is enough to warrant an increase. In 1952-1960, the greatest conservative president ever, Dwight Eisenhower (who actually served in wartime, twice, was religiously conservative but not a Jesus-pushing evangelical, and dealt with the sticky issue of race, successfully... unlike the GOP's past 3 entries), KEPT the highest marginal rate at 92%, as per wartime taxes in order to continue to fund the economy. In an era when people's average income ranged from 1200 to 3000 a year, the highest income earners, 100,000 and up, where paying 92%... This was not because he was anti-rich, or communist, etc. It was because the nation needed to cover the cost of the Korean Conflict, two economic downturns, and the mounting cost of the wounded and the GI bill recipients from WWII and Korea, IN ADDITION TO the extraordinary boom in building and highway construction. Did people get by with less? Absolutely. Did it benefit us in the end? Absolutely... just take a drive from Maine to Key West, and then imagine doing that on dirt state highways.

The increase contemplated is 5%, raising the max required to about 39-40%, the amount it was at during clinton, and LESS than it was for much of Reagan's presidency (up to 1986 it was 72%). IMHO, people need to live within their means, its sad and disturbing when someone making 250K a year can STILL manage to live in debt up to their eyeballs on credit due to keeping up with the Jones'. If these folks, who have taken tax breaks and cuts at our expense (as the american public) for years can't manage their money at 250K + they need some fucking financial counseling, not more leniency in what they owe.

3. Imbeciles who just want to disagree for the sake of doing so. I'm really not going to go further into this than that.

I've given up taking the 30 mins it takes to read Legal's posts like these and just prefer to assume he legally pwned someone.

[2 Dwarves, 1 Coat]

I've given up taking the 30 mins it takes to read Legal's posts like these and just prefer to assume he legally pwned someone.

Agreed. I'll just assume it was an outspoken, fact-based wall of text that completely disproves someone

else's previous statement.