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View Full Version : "Rules" admin's enforce on certian maps



tank40175
1 Aug 2008, 04:11pm
I just wondering why people will be threatened with ban for use of secret rooms on certian maps, or like using stairs on black mesa instead of elevator. If it is designed into map, and u don't want to take elevator, are you not allowed to play map as you wish, or are these legitimate rules that are being enforced?? And by the way, playing as you wish, i don't mean screwing over teammates and such. That stuff goes on alot and it is ashame that admins can't catch them all. :confused1:

WTFBBQ_Z0MB13
1 Aug 2008, 04:18pm
Well the use of secret rooms i dont know about, but on Blackmesa when you use the stairs you have to open up the way for the zombies, and if that box is opened right behind the lift the humans have almost no chance of winning. =D hope this helps. Take the lifts, and make some Z0mbie kits in your quick buy so you can be ahead of the pack.

GrayFox
1 Aug 2008, 04:48pm
Yea if you take stairs it really screws people over. I wouldn't speak bad of secret rooms, only cheap spots that really are impossible to get to.

nightmarejr
1 Aug 2008, 07:28pm
Things like the stairs and all that are allowed. Only things that arent allowed is glitching.

GrayFox
1 Aug 2008, 07:36pm
Things like the stairs and all that are allowed. Only things that arent allowed is glitching.

So your saying that if I take stairs and an admin yells at me and threatens to ban me, I don't have to feel scared?

Z3r0 M4ni4c
1 Aug 2008, 08:00pm
So your saying that if I take stairs and an admin yells at me and threatens to ban me, I don't have to feel scared?

Nightmare has it wrong.

Taking stairs when you can use the elevator is wrong.
If you take stairs you screwup the whole ct team because you shoot out all barricades that holds the zombies back to make an escape possible for humans.

Without the barricades humans get screwed and ct never wins.

So then the guy that took the stairs while he could have taken the elevator screws over the whole ct team and is infact teamkilling his own team.

as far as i know every admin says this rule against people as in: Dont take the stairs when you can get on the elevator.

jeN
1 Aug 2008, 08:00pm
So your saying that if I take stairs and an admin yells at me and threatens to ban me, I don't have to feel scared?

You shouldn't have to feel scared for that, but an admin might still get upset and ban you. If that happens, just try to get proof and post a complaint. Things like that aren't against the rules, therefore not a bannable offense.

Even surviving the nuke on Atix_Heli isn't a bannable offense as there's easier and better options. Which is, slay(?), burn, freeze, move to spec, kick. It doesn't really warrant a ban as that's an extreme for such a small thing. Banning for that would have to be if they didn't listen several times, not a first time offense.

TofuShop
1 Aug 2008, 08:00pm
So your saying that if I take stairs and an admin yells at me and threatens to ban me, I don't have to feel scared?

I don't see why you should feel scared if you take the stairs, but why exactly would you take the stairs?

I have heared this warning many times but there is a reason for it and that is called Tking. If the lift is availabe, what reason is there to take the stairs? I have taken the stairs atleast half a dozen times, most of it with atleast 2 admins throwing this warning around but I didn't have fear, mainly because the lift had already left.

Taking the stairs while an alternate, safer, more reliable route is still the best option, doesn't make a possitive image. They issue those warnings because those who refuse to take the elevator and open up an easy route for zombies to enter, just shouts TK.

jeN
1 Aug 2008, 08:16pm
Nightmare has it wrong.

Taking stairs when you can use the elevator is wrong.
If you take stairs you screwup the whole ct team because you shoot out all barricades that holds the zombies back to make an escape possible for humans.

Without the barricades humans get screwed and ct never wins.

So then the guy that took the stairs while he could have taken the elevator screws over the whole ct team and is infact teamkilling his own team.

as far as i know every admin says this rule against people as in: Dont take the stairs when you can get on the elevator.

There's no rule stating people HAVE to take the elevator over stairs, despite it possibly being "tk'ing." That would basically be telling people they have no choice in what they want to do, though the choice is illogical, it isn't against the rules nor is it TK'ing. It is though, not a very smart choice to do when the elevator is still there and taking that will give you a great chance of survival. Teamkilling would be, more like blowing up a bridge on team mates causing them to suicide, jumping on heads in an elevator again causing suicide. Not really inadvertently causing their death by the players own ignorance.

Jaffa
2 Aug 2008, 05:07am
This is a list i put together in the server admin section which are what i consider the main things not to do on each map (excluding the obvious things like blocking and glitching):

ze_sst_b2_1: Do not drop rocks on teammates, Try not to camp spawn
zm_ATIX_helicopter: Zombies Do not use the nuke glitch to survive
zm_boatescape5_remix: Do not take boats early, do not tk with pods, do not deliberatly screw up the heli
zm_arctic_escape_v1:stay off heads on the lifts, hold vehicles for teammates, don't break the cade at the end
zm_island_escape_beta_9: Do not shoot rocks, do not close gates,, do not shoot bridges, wait for teammates with the tram
zm_ATIX_extinction_lastbeta: don't tk with heli, do not nuke glitch
zm_nostromo_escape_beta_5: do not close doors on teammates
zm_boatescape6_remix: don't shoot bridges out on teammates
ze_echo_snowescape_v3b: zombies don't use nuke safe room if it is a human heli (not sure about this one)
ze_dust_escape_v1
ze_canal_escape
zm_ATIX_panic_b3+
ze_wasteland_escape
ze_rooftop_runaway_v1: don't shoot planks out on teammates
ze_xpg_escapebeta3sgedit: hold the lift for teammates
ze_jurassicpark_v2: don't break planks, don't close the gate on teammates
ze_elevator_escape_v4: don't close the gate on teammates, don't shoot the gates on zombie lifts:don't shoot the rocks on teammates
ze_rooftop_runaway2_v3
ze_blackmesa_escape_final: don't close the airlock on teammates, use the lift rather than the stairs if available, do not use nuke glitch
ze_space_stationx: don't close doors on teammates, don't use nuke glitche
zm_trap_escape: don't activate the painting
zm_escape_bridge_v1d: don't jump or climb on heads inthe wind tunnel
ze_sorrento_escape_v2: don't close the door on teammates, do not shoot the barrels
ze_cp_escape_b3_extended
ze_echo_boatescape_extended: don't take boats early
ze_thelostworld_v1: do not blow the bridge on teammates, do not turn the power on whilst teammates are climbing fence
ze_icecave_escape_v2: do not lower the ramp or close the spikes on teammates
zm_malvinas_heli_v2: do not use the nuke glitch as a zombie, do not shoot ledges
zm_jet_escape_final: do not close gates on teammates
ze_IamLegend_b2: do not blow the bridge on teammates
ze_licciana_escape_zm: do not stand on teammates heads on lifts, do not ashoot the barrel, try not to camp spawn

tank40175
2 Aug 2008, 11:23am
Thank you all for making this much clearer for me, as I want to enjoy playing here and also don't want to make things harder for others. Thanks agian.

barackobama
2 Aug 2008, 11:30am
On the map where you can take the lift or stairs, when people go on stairs, little girls start screaming "BAN HIM", I'm like for what??

They say, other admins ban!

I'm like, that's the most stupid ban offense ever!! Ban someone for taking a route on a map, which is legal???

juku
2 Aug 2008, 12:26pm
Garfield if you played enough on blackmesa it depends on the situation. People hate it when other people go the stairs when the lift is still there as it screws up the chance to escape for the lift people. Since the time diffrence minus is amazing when the box and metal part blocking the ladder is destroyed. Yes I agree that banning someone for taking the stairs is not needed. Though to keep the anger down freezing is in order or kick when they intently took the stairs way when the lift is still there for them to screw the team over. If they keep taking the stairs just to ruin his team a ban is in order since thats the same as tking.

Svendy
2 Aug 2008, 01:03pm
On the map where you can take the lift or stairs, when people go on stairs, little girls start screaming "BAN HIM", I'm like for what??

They say, other admins ban!

I'm like, that's the most stupid ban offense ever!! Ban someone for taking a route on a map, which is legal???

how often do you play blackmasa?
in more than 9 out of 10 times, when the lift is still at the buttom and someone takes the stairs, it will result in tk. I think the map was designed for humans to take the lift and make the zombies to go up the stairs, considering it takes... idk 10 sec' for the zombies to destroy the blocks and the humans should have made it past the crates at the gate. when a human takes the stair it takes just as long time as the lift.
i consider it tk'ing and realy hate when people does it even though he is told not to.

Veggie
2 Aug 2008, 02:03pm
Does not make sense to ban someone for tking when it's not a direct tk, like others have stated earlier the stairs are part of the map. It's not fair to new players joining the server who may have never played there before that are told not to take the stairs or be banned. If the stairs are that big of a deal maybe someone can edit the map and put a gate with a timer on it like there are on other parts of the black mesa map?

I don't see what the big deal is really, I've played the map, sometimes zombies get there before the humans. The point of gaming is to have fun, kill zombies and run run run.

Anyways just my humble opinion.

Jaffa
2 Aug 2008, 03:18pm
yeah its great fun when everyone is working together, holding the lift for every last human, then zooming upwards after the lats guy has made it in just ahead of the zombies. Then you reach the top and find, because one guy has gone stairs and shot it all out, the zombies have reached there lready, and you all die, all because of one guy.

What would you do in that situation?

Veggie
2 Aug 2008, 03:41pm
I've been in that situation, maybe it just me I dunno but there are a lot worse things people can be banned for and I don't think that is one of them.

jeN
2 Aug 2008, 03:56pm
Well on the map, at the end you have to make a jump that's kind of hard for most pubbers it seems, so that takes up a lot of time where you could be safe rather than waiting for people who can't jump or boosting. It's how the map was designed, you shouldn't punish people for something so minuscule. I die almost every round at the end, even if all CT's take the lift. Because I boost the other players up and they don't provide any type of backup so I get owned by zombies while everyone else sits there knowing they're safe. Should I ban/kick them all because they basically caused my own death? No, that would be ridiculous.

You can't dictate how people play the map so much, the game/server is meant to be fun. Yes it sucks if that happens. By restricting the players, you basically don't allow them to have fun or play a map without attempting to control every little thing aspect. Not every player knows the consequences of taking one path as compared to another. Not every player reads chat, or listens to mics; how are you going to punish someone for playing the map as it was made? It isn't the players fault and still not a bannable offense. Fix the map if you have such a problem with it, or find someone who will edit the map to make it so CT's always survive because we all know that's great fun.

An admin is supposed to regulate the server and keep it under control. Playing the map how it was designed is neither interrupting gameplay or causing any large issues. I asked Litkey about this both last night and a few minutes ago. Copy pasted with permission:


[SG] LitKey: we're supposed to police the shit that interferes with the game, like mic spamming, team killing, not somebody choosing to take the stairs... lol
jen: yeah
[SG] LitKey: legislate gameplay as least as possible

GrayFox
2 Aug 2008, 03:56pm
Even if you take the stairs, it doesn't mean zombies are suddenly just going to flock out of every hole and get you immediatly. They still have to run up said stairs, up the ladder, over the boxes, then up more ladders and over more boxes. All of this while getting shot at. If humans fail to win at this point, then they should just stop playing. As long as its not glitching or shooting a box out from someone or blocking, i see no point in banning.

juku
2 Aug 2008, 03:58pm
As I say, it depends on the situation. If it happens like for only one time and the person was new and all it is ok with a verbal or typed suggestion/warning.Though if It happens every round like if it is the same person taking the stairs and the people were waiting for that guy with the screams to get on the lift as I heard in the past then anybody would be mad. As you try to make it to the end but never could because of one person.(possibility of a griefer) As far as I can see a freeze is the way to go depending of the situation again. Unless they did it mutiple times just to ruin other peoples fun. This is just my opinion. Didn't have too much trouble on this that much anyway as most regular players understand the importance of taking the lift instead of the stairs. Though from time to time it happens which is why this discussion surfaced I guess. In the end it is the fun that counts I guess. (easy points for being a zombie)

Jaffa
2 Aug 2008, 04:30pm
Firstly, just to make it clear, i've never banned anyone for taking the stairs and never will.

But i think your getting this all wrong jen. your saying the map was made like this and we shouldn't punish people for how the map was made. Lost world has an exlploding bridge, it was made like that, yet we still stop people blowing it. There is a nuke glitch on atix heli, we stop zombies using that, there are many many things on all the escape maps which we restrict players from using.

Just because 'stopping someone taking stairs' doesn't sound serious, doesn't mean it isn't somehting we should deal with. Its not the matter of taking stairs, its the matter that people taking stairs cause many teammates to get zombied or get stuck behind and therefore killed by the nuke. Thats teamkilling, not choosing to take a different route.

Joeytron
2 Aug 2008, 08:03pm
black mesa is my favorite escape map and i've played it a decent amount of times. when i first started playing, i had no idea that taking the stairs meant screwing your mates in the elevator. the thought simply hadn't occurred to me i was new to escape. all it took, was for somebody to explain it to me and I haven't done it since. that's all it takes for most people. when people keep doing it after it has been explained to them .. idk

destroying obstacles in the way of zombies isn't as black and white as blocking and dropping rocks on your teammates, but it is a lot like it imo

GrayFox
2 Aug 2008, 08:16pm
But i think your getting this all wrong jen. your saying the map was made like this and we shouldn't punish people for how the map was made. Lost world has an exlploding bridge, it was made like that, yet we still stop people blowing it.

Theres a big difference with that. Blowing a bridge delibertly kills a CT, shooting out a box just helps the zombies move alittle bit faster to the end. Surviving the nuke is alittle annoying, but the humans are able to just jump down and shoot the remaining 4 or less zombies anyways.

Joeytron
2 Aug 2008, 08:24pm
i think that it helps them a little more than a little bit
we have what? the box after the stairs and the metal thing on the ladder right?

after we get off the elevator, depending how full it is .. it takes a while for everybody to get past the first few boxes, and the choke point around the bend since its always so crowded there, it usually gets more than just a few people.

bah all in all its easy to see this from both viewpoints I think the best solution is making a wall or something that doesn't open till after the elevator leaves.

(if it can be that easy haha, i have zero exp designing maps)

LitKey
3 Aug 2008, 02:12am
i think that it helps them a little more than a little bit
we have what? the box after the stairs and the metal thing on the ladder right?

after we get off the elevator, depending how full it is .. it takes a while for everybody to get past the first few boxes, and the choke point around the bend since its always so crowded there, it usually gets more than just a few people.

bah all in all its easy to see this from both viewpoints I think the best solution is making a wall or something that doesn't open till after the elevator leaves.

(if it can be that easy haha, i have zero exp designing maps)

The guy who made the map, Bill Smauz, is an admin here. He should be able to accomplish just that.

As I said in the conversation Jen posted, our rules must legislate gameplay as least as possible. Like government, servers are admined better when less intrusive. And I'd say controlling whether somebody takes the stairs or the elevator is pretty damn intrusive because it's controlling gameplay choices players are able to take ingame. Choosing to take the stairs on BlackMesa really does not break any of the rules we already have set forth, and players doing so cannot and should not be punished for doing such.

Z3r0 M4ni4c
3 Aug 2008, 05:00am
The guy who made the map, Bill Smauz, is an admin here. He should be able to accomplish just that.

As I said in the conversation Jen posted, our rules must legislate gameplay as least as possible. Like government, servers are admined better when less intrusive. And I'd say controlling whether somebody takes the stairs or the elevator is pretty damn intrusive because it's controlling gameplay choices players are able to take ingame. Choosing to take the stairs on BlackMesa really does not break any of the rules we already have set forth, and players doing so cannot and should not be punished for doing such.

As i explained Nightmarejr on vent and he agreed with that.

When the elevator is still there people should take that one and not the stairs on purpose.

When you take the stairs as a guy of the group infront and zombies come later when the elevator leaves (it has a 10 second delay), And the barricades are broken by that one guy that was infront then the whole team get screwed and infact then its Teamkilling the whole team and then it is a bannable offens.

I had some guys that took the stairs and when the team got killed they only laughed so those do it on purpose to screw there teammates.

And the guys who we explained why not to take the stairs but better to take the elevator instead of the stairs, are all going in the elevator and thanked for the explanation.

We only say in admin chat: When the elevator is still there please use that one and not the stairs.

If the elevator already is left there shouldnt be a kick for the other guys that where left behind because they cant help it.

If we dont warn a lot of people would just take stairs, kill the whole ct team and get away with Teamkilling.

But we DONT BAN people for using stairs unless there doing it on purpose and laughing about how they killed there whole team.

I say we as in: Me, Jaffa and some more admins.

(hopefully my explanation is good otherwise maby someone can correct me)

So we only try people to explain why its better to take elevator instead of stairs because of the teamkilling. Maby if billsmauz also see's it there can be a change in the map where says in console: Humans Take the elevator to have better survival chances,

Or something like that :001_tongue: