PDA

View Full Version : 3 strikes policy



broncoty
31 Jul 2008, 12:20am
So the three strikes policy that on the third strike (ban) one is perm banned. This is good and all, I support it and I think it helps keep our servers clean of douche bags.

The only bad part of it is that the same admin can do the 3 bans, this in my opinion is not very secure, it pretty much means and admin can issue a perm ban, because all they have to do is ban someone 3 maybe 4 times to cause it.

I propose that the policy should be that a person is banned at least three times, but was also banned by at least 2 or more different admins. Sure it gives rule breakers a little more leeway, but with all the perm bans being reduced in appeals it seems like it would actually make the process faster.

This of course would not apply to AO/BD and such, but I think it would keep people from being perm banned on a non corroborated opinion of a single admin and offer a check and balance for perm bans giving them more legitimacy.

Maxwelldon
31 Jul 2008, 01:04am
I quite much agree with this.. Though other way to get rid of some perms would be that we'd change the length of how long a ban is counted as "strike" as well as inputting reasoning for the ban in to comment field over bansite

As far as I'm concerned, I've recently started to put up comments on almost every ban I do. Could almost recommend every admin doing it so we wouldn't be wondering the exact reason for what the ban was issued later on

nightmarejr
31 Jul 2008, 02:39am
I agree.... but thats why we have vent. usually before we issue a perm we ask around and do a character analysis. We also look at the time in between bans. If some guy has a ban in january and another a couple months later and again a couplemonths later then we prolly wont issue a ban. Unless he's doing it for some reason to just be a greifer.

SpikedRocker
31 Jul 2008, 02:58am
I quite much agree with this.. Though other way to get rid of some perms would be that we'd change the length of how long a ban is counted as "strike" as well as inputting reasoning for the ban in to comment field over bansite

As far as I'm concerned, I've recently started to put up comments on almost every ban I do. Could almost recommend every admin doing it so we wouldn't be wondering the exact reason for what the ban was issued later on

Yeah I've been doing that too. Mainly so I remember why I banned them in the first place :-P

Mammal
31 Jul 2008, 03:14am
So what your saying is that the three strikes would only count if it was by three seperate admins?

I like this idea, It stops personal feelings getting in the way because if one admin hates you it wont matter to much.

Paladin
31 Jul 2008, 03:18am
It shouldn't matter which admin did it, because if they are trying so hard to get someone permbanned then they shouldn't be an admin. Admins aren't supposed to hold grudges.

Besides, what if one player decides "Oh, all the other admins are cool...except this one. This one doesn't let me get away with anything. Let's see if I can fuck with him day after day after day and still remain in the server."
Well he's obviously a griefer, but sorry we can't permban him because the one admin that he's been screwing with is the only one who has banned him 3 or more times.

James
31 Jul 2008, 03:28am
Erm, not being funny, but don't we already have a system, such as perm bans have to be authorised by AO'S or higher? A normal admin cannot perm ban without authorisation.

Paladin
31 Jul 2008, 03:31am
Yeah we do have that system James, but the topic also involves us handing out perm-bans to the people with three strikes.

barackobama
31 Jul 2008, 03:33am
Because, if a certian admin does not like someone, they could just ban them 3 times, make a excuse and BAM! Perm banned!

Paladin
31 Jul 2008, 03:36am
Once again though, it can also be one guy messing with one admin specifically and BAM new policy says we can't permban the ass because it has been that one admin that has been banning him.

Veggie
31 Jul 2008, 03:51am
There are people like Paladin mentioned, that will go out of their way to harass admins tho few and far between to see what they can get away with. I'd like to think that no admin would go out of their way to get someone permed for the simple fact they don't like them. It's a tough call. I'd say 2 to 1 that it's more likely to happen that a admin is being singled out and harassed than the other way around.

juku
31 Jul 2008, 04:19am
True why would any admin just go out of there way to just ban one person again and again. Besides as I recall just two days ago I was kept being called edge noob and all. It may seem offensive and and annoying after hearing so much times each time the team fails it is said to be my fault. All in all it is all fun and games. In the end this system is working pretty well.:thumbup1:

Mammal
31 Jul 2008, 04:24am
If the same admin did it 3 times and had excessive proof (demos and screenshots) of it then perm ban should be instant.

Suri
31 Jul 2008, 06:32am
We would not even be able to tell if there were other admins that did the ban any way. If a player already has one ban and then gets banned by another admin say a week later. In the global ban list the last admins name will show as the banning admin for all the past bans too.

So it would be really hard to even tell if more then one admin banned any one.

Omar
31 Jul 2008, 06:47am
We would not even be able to tell if there were other admins that did the ban any way. If a player already has one ban and then gets banned by another admin say a week later. In the global ban list the last admins name will show as the banning admin for all the past bans too.

So it would be really hard to even tell if more then one admin banned any one.

Really so the last admin banning the player counts as the admin who banned him all the other times, thats bad, maybe when an admin bannes a guy, he should leave his name in the comment box or something.

Suri
31 Jul 2008, 06:49am
Really so the last admin banning the player counts as the admin who banned him all the other times, thats bad, maybe when an admin bannes a guy, he should leave his name in the comment box or something.

We do ask our admins to do that, but that means they have to visit the website. And now thats just asking for allot:)

trakaill
31 Jul 2008, 07:41am
Because the admins ban will not count towards 3 strike rule doesnt mean the admin cant him if he is fuckin around he wil stil be off the server. So I like the idea. Its just that with some admins around, not naming anyone, some people got the their third ban prettty quickly and something unfaily in my opinion. I like this idea and I think maybe with a lil twidle we could maybe have a new policy o something, my 2 cent im going back to sleep:closedeyes:


Once again though, it can also be one guy messing with one admin specifically and BAM new policy says we can't permban the ass because it has been that one admin that has been banning him.

Omar
31 Jul 2008, 08:40am
We do ask our admins to do that, but that means they have to visit the website. And now thats just asking for allot:)

Lazy noobs. Just joking :001_tongue:

Astrum
31 Jul 2008, 09:04am
This might be a bit tangential, but in the Appeals section there are only three tags I've seen used, Unbanned, Rejected, and Expired. The thing with the Unbanned tag is it doesn't necessarily mean the person was unbanned. The AO/BD could have lessened the ban from three days to one day, or three days to five minutes (I'm not sure if five minutes is considered a strike or not, but I think it is).

If an appeal is tagged Unbanned, does the ban still count as a strike? If it does then the Unbanned tag is a bit disingenuous. By that I mean hypothetically if a person incurs three bans, the first of which he successfully appeals and gets reduced to five minutes, then he can be permanently banned even though the first was tagged Unbanned.

Again, this would only be true if the first ban is still considered a strike, I'm not sure how the AOs and BDs analyze these situations so I could be wrong. However, if I am right then perhaps a new tag, Reduced, should be used in the Appeals section. This tag would count as a strike and it would reserve the Unbanned tag for bans which are reduced to five minutes and it would not count as a strike.

I think the Reduced tag is a good idea in either case, but feel free to ignore my post if I'm completely wrong about how strikes are tallied =).

Smallsasaurus
31 Jul 2008, 11:26am
Sometimes structure and rules are a good thing, and sometimes structure and rules just create more problems. I think if you try and mess around with the way the perm-bans work, you are just going to lose some of its effectiveness. Every case is a different shape and if you create a square hole you want to try and push them all through, it'll work sometimes and create more problems others.

I think its good the way it is now. Have faith that the AO's review perm-bans and if someone has 3 5-minute bans from the same admin for an inappropriate spray, they take that into consideration. This seems like an area where you need some flexibility, like the AO's making the call and the appeals section. That way the people who might deserve another chance aren't 3 and out and the people who are bad eggs are gone even if its the same admin banning them.

broncoty
31 Jul 2008, 12:02pm
Sometimes structure and rules are a good thing, and sometimes structure and rules just create more problems. I think if you try and mess around with the way the perm-bans work, you are just going to lose some of its effectiveness. Every case is a different shape and if you create a square hole you want to try and push them all through, it'll work sometimes and create more problems others.

I think its good the way it is now. Have faith that the AO's review perm-bans and if someone has 3 5-minute bans from the same admin for an inappropriate spray, they take that into consideration. This seems like an area where you need some flexibility, like the AO's making the call and the appeals section. That way the people who might deserve another chance aren't 3 and out and the people who are bad eggs are gone even if its the same admin banning them.

Every case is different which is why we have policy's to try and deal with them. AO's cannot be present 24/7 in every server to make a judgment on a players actions. And most people will agree that a 10 word global bans report is not a good summation of what happened in the server during the time of the ban.

By just requiring that 2 different admins give strikes someone before they are considered for a perm ban makes it more valid and open to less interpretation.

Of course if there are demos/screenshots there is proof then 2 admins banning would not be needed. But other perm bans which are given because they have X amount of bans on global bans need to be a bit more strictly controlled.

airassault
31 Jul 2008, 09:27pm
Its great that theirs the three strike rule but if some one has 1 strike doesnt mean they will do anything bad but soemtiems some admins not sayign who try to push that person to act up so they can get banned but the admins also need to respect the players instead of stepping on their faces and expecting them to be nice to admins

__________________________________________________ ___
Be happy only when you want to be not if someone tells you to.

Z<)