Rule Discussion re Racism

[LegalSmash]

It appears as if Racism is a predominant factor in long bans, permanent bans, and suspension of privileges within the ZM/SG community. There appears to be a fair amount of discrepancy in sentence, punishment, and terms.

I have a proposal for the amendment to the current method of appeals, but solely applying to cases of racism.

In addition to the standard appeal, the player should be required to explain in no less than 1 5 sentence paragraph

1. what racist statement they made
2. why they made the statement (not just: I was angry, but I said "racist terms here" because I felt "racist terms" conveyed (enter idea, thoughts, etc). Also, how they intended the statement to benefit the game, and how it ultimately did not.
3. Why the statement is antisocial, wrong, inappropriate etc, and why they chose to make it despite the clearly stated rules.
4. acknowledge that they have broken a cardinal rule of the server, and that racism is inappropriate.
5. Why they deserve to be unbanned despite what they have written above.


If the person is required to do this, they may just realize JUST how stupid they were, and either will 1. not come back, or 2. i they are allowed back for whatever reason, will think twice because of the pain in the ass due to the process for racism bans, as listed above.

To make this work, we have to compile an entire list of words and associated terms that are not allowed, and place them within a cross referenced list/document within the End user agreement/registration terms.

I can compile a list for the BDs and PM them with this list or we can have a "list all racist terms here" below and discuss the merits of certain "gray area" inclusions or exclusions to make it completely fair.

Please reply via PM if a personal message sent list is more favorable. In my humble opinion, however, a discussion may be appropriate as it will allow an ultimate majority rule regarding what is considered racism within the entire ZM servers.

In order to keep this discussion civil and within its purposes, ZM members with at least 100 posts, all SAs, AOs, BDs, and associated officers should be allowed to post. However, due to lack of involvement on forums OR servers, any less posting or game time (however you guys decide that one) should be excluded so that the community's best interests are kept paramount.

Very Respectfully,

Legalsmash.

[barackobama]

We do not accept racism in any way, shape, or form, even if they didn't or did mean it.

No one is ever racist by mistake..

You don't come out with the "N" word by mistake..

[LegalSmash]

I agree, however, the problem is you have multiple instances by the same idiots, having the appeal process include this, may in fact deter it more.

[Red]

Sounds good to me actually.

We used to have an excessively long list of words, but this is what we have now:

* Nigger
* Chink
* Gook
* Cracker
* Beaner
* Spic
* Wetback
* Kike

[SpikedRocker]

Nice job Legal...if we could implent this I agree it would show how stupid they are for saying such things. Personally, I believe we should have a zero-tolerance policy in place for racism. If you are ignorant enough to stoop to racism you shouldn't be playing video games, should be in school learn about why its wrong. Again, nice work!

[LegalSmash]

I just think that by just kicking them out, we give the message that it is ok, except to us. If we make them go through this, and they realize just how fucking retarded what they did is, they may buy a clue. It is hard to keep up a behavior when your behavior makes you look like a tard and you are forced to realize it and admit it.

I'd add variations to the words, as follows:

Nigger, Nigra, Nagger, Nyukkah, Nugga, Spook, Jiggaboo, or any of its variations
* Chink, dink, gook,
* Sandnigger, sandmonkey, or any term denoting the phenotypical characteristics of the persn
* Cracker, honkie,
* Beaner, spic, wetback, brown nigger, border nigger, waternigger, or any of the variants
* Kike, hymie, Sheenie,

I vote AGAINST including any non race, ethnic, national origin, outside appearance phrase to fit within the concept of racism.

[Itch]

I like the way you think Legal.
You can't force people to not be ignorant, but if going though a harsh appeal process helps them realize how they are acting it would be worth it.

[AppleShark]

Where's the "anti-thanks" button??

[GrayFox]

Up your ass. No but why would you not thank legal for helping the server?

[Suri]

Up your ass. No but why would you not thank legal for helping the server?

Because it's apple. And we just ignore anything he says.

[Lux]

I think you are getting onto something that is maybe good.

The whole point of ban appealing is forgiveness. In some cases people don't deserve but if you are just ignorant and don't know what the "N" word, or Cracker (which I wouldn't think many people know of....it is used in other cases which are in no way racist, so I think its best to warn people about saying this before you ban.


I guess if someone doesn't know what it means, educate them, don't perm ban.

Also,


We do not accept racism in any way, shape, or form, even if they didn't or did mean it.

No one is ever racist by mistake..

You don't come out with the "N" word by mistake..
In my opinion, you are wrong. I'm not saying that any racism is acceptable, but the fact is MOST people use racist words without any racial intent.

By saying a racist word, such as the "N" word, if you aren't actually using it to offend a black person, its just like saying fucker or whatever else.

So there is a difference, most of the time people are just being disrespectful, and in some cases that deserves a ban, in a case where racial words have been used whether it is intentional or not you don't want people saying it because maybe one time a black person is going to get offended.

[SpikedRocker]

In my opinion, you are wrong. I'm not saying that any racism is acceptable, but the fact is MOST people use racist words without any racial intent.

By saying a racist word, such as the "N" word, if you aren't actually using it to offend a black person, its just like saying fucker or whatever else.


I understand where you are coming from, some people use such words to vent anger. But why do people feel the need to drop the N-bomb insteand of the F-bomb? I do not see what is so hard to not utter a word, that people know is used to discriminate against an entire race of people. To me its just as simple to vent frustration dropping the F-bomb as it is any other word. We owe it to our players to have a fun and clean community of servers, where anyone should be able to play unoffended and not deal with such idiotic things as racism.

I think racism needs to be delt with simular to how sexual harrasment is delt with in the work place: If someone is offended by what is said then is racism. Point blank. It doesn't matter if it was out of anger or frustration, someone was offended and should be delt with.

[juku]

So true, what might not be found offensive to you maybe be offensive to others which is why racism is in the zero tolerence level rule.

[PotshotPolka]

LegalSmash for AO '08

CHANGE.

[High]

We are harsh and unforgiving for Racism, because quite frankly, they do not provide a positive image to our server community. I give out a minimum 3 day ban for a first offense and do punish more harshly when they continuously use it.

Quite simply, do you expect this type of behavior in your house? No, you'd throw them out the door too.

One other thing i've noticed is the racists in ban appeals are usually the quickest deniers that they have done anything wrong.

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

Sounds good to me actually.

We used to have an excessively long list of words, but this is what we have now:

* Nigger
* Chink
* Gook
* Cracker
* Beaner
* Spic
* Wetback
* Kike

Haha, I Remember When It Used To Be Organized By Race/Nationality And Like Every Possible Derogitory Slur Was Listed Below Them.

I Kinda Like This Idea, But I Don't Know If We All Really Wanna Read An Essay After Every Time We Ban A Racist.

[BOOWY]

Carlos Mencia said something in one of his routines that I completely and totally agree with. He said something along the lines of "If you can't tell a joke in front of the people that it talks about, then you have no right to tell that joke at all".

Similarly, if you can't use these racial words in front of the people that they talk about, then you have no right to say those words at all, because I know for a fact that 99% of the people saying that shit in a video game behind a computer screen wouldn't have the balls to say it in person in front of their faces.

[Taylor]

I would just like to see the racist remarks either:


A A perm. ban, and like Legal said: should make an appeal and follow the guidelines that legal had said.

or

B A Very long ban 5 weeks or something like that, it just gets old to see people running their mouths off and purposly putting/bashing an ethnic group because they didn't get what they wanted or some crap like that.

The reason for my little dash of an idea is because I don't think in ANY way no matter WHAT situation, should ANYONE use racial slurs.:thumbdown:

[LegalSmash]

Folks

I think the issue to be addressed is not just the use of the words. I think that the method listed makes the person basically elicit a response as to WHY they used THAT word, when there are SO many others that they could have used instead. I mean, you can call a guy a fucking asshole if he shoots a box out from under you without incident, you can say "horseshit" if someone TKs or blows up a bridge, or what have you. I think that there are at least 150,000 other descriptive terms or epithets you can use... no one is saying you cant curse... people do this ALL the time, often without any incident, but rather, that the players should refrain from using words that have absolutely no real place on a server like this.

Here, however, the person instead decides to say something like "cum soaked nigger balls" or "you fucking wetback" despite the fact that he has no real concept of the race of the person who did something to them. I think that this person, if they are going to go through the trouble of finding the site, applying for appeal, they SHOULD have to go through a more stringent process, not for the sake of making SAs, BDs, AOs, read more, but just to make them spell it out... see how many of them dont do it anymore, or in other cases, flat out dont come back. I honestly think it should not matter whether they intended the word in a racially charged fashion, but "nigger", kyke, chink, etc. only has so many meanings in the general lexicon of US/UK English. Ebonics is NOT the official language of site from what I understand....
If X or Y player is not making the word in a racially charged fashion he is an ignorant imbecile that SHOULD have to explain himself, if not only for the purpose of making him come up with (or attempt to) a half credible statement as to WHY they did what they did.

SA, AO, BD ultimately make the decision as to whether to totally perm ban them, temp, etc. or what sentence to met out, but so long as there are people who will return, and have the issue again, this process may at the minimum deter SOME of them from either doing it again or returning. Also, this may prevent many of them from appealing, or perhaps even changing their behavior.

I think this would only serve to benefit the site and servers as it would remove the truly repugnant assholes from the site, or at least get them to realize how stupid they sound.

If it makes life easier, I can read these things and comment on them, should you guys choose to employ this in any capacity. I read paragraphs of utter bullshit all the time, a few more badly written paragraphs won't be too much skin off my ass. If the help was needed, I'd be glad to help.

[LegalSmash]

I think you are getting onto something that is maybe good.

The whole point of ban appealing is forgiveness. In some cases people don't deserve but if you are just ignorant and don't know what the "N" word, or Cracker (which I wouldn't think many people know of....it is used in other cases which are in no way racist, so I think its best to warn people about saying this before you ban.


I guess if someone doesn't know what it means, educate them, don't perm ban.

Also,


In my opinion, you are wrong. I'm not saying that any racism is acceptable, but the fact is MOST people use racist words without any racial intent.

By saying a racist word, such as the "N" word, if you aren't actually using it to offend a black person, its just like saying fucker or whatever else.

So there is a difference, most of the time people are just being disrespectful, and in some cases that deserves a ban, in a case where racial words have been used whether it is intentional or not you don't want people saying it because maybe one time a black person is going to get offended.

Actually, the word has only one commonly accepted meaning luxorz in the US, and it is not to call someone a "fucker".

[Taylor]

Actually, the word has only one commonly accepted meaning luxorz in the US, and it is not to call someone a "fucker".


2 MAJOR differences!

[Phoenix]

i think "coon" should be added to the racism word list aswell

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

i think "coon" should be added to the racism word list aswell

Coon? As In A Derogatory Slur For Raccoons?

Thank You For Bringing That Up, Raccoon's Are Such An Underrepresented Minority Here At SG.

[BOOWY]

Coon? As In A Derogatory Slur For Raccoons?

Thank You For Bringing That Up, Raccoon's Are Such An Underrepresented Minority Here At SG.

Nope, coon is racial slang against black people. It's apparently serious enough to have Blizzard change a pet in World of Warcraft from Maine Coon(which is an actual breed mind you) to Black Tabby.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coon

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

Nope, coon is racial slang against black people. It's apparently serious enough to have Blizzard change a pet in World of Warcraft from Maine Coon(which is an actual breed mind you) to Black Tabby.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coon

Hmm I Find That Very Strange, People In Halo 2 Called A Certain Weapon Combo The "Coon Combo" And No One Ever Mentioned Anything.

I Think That That Word Should Be Put On A List Where We Wont Ban People For Saying It, Just Simply Request That They Don't Use It, Simply Because I Don't Think Many People Know What It Means.

[Astrum]

I understand where you are coming from, some people use such words to vent anger. But why do people feel the need to drop the N-bomb insteand of the F-bomb?

Better question, why is it okay to call someone a "fag" (except when it personally offends someone) but not a "nigger". I don't understand why ethnic slurs are in the zero tolerance category while other derogatory terms (religious, sexual, et cetera) are on a case by case basis. I'd personally like to see them all in the zero tolerance category, or none of them in there. Skin color should not be more important than sexual orientation (or others) in my opinion.


1. what racist statement they made
2. why they made the statement (not just: I was angry, but I said "racist terms here" because I felt "racist terms" conveyed (enter idea, thoughts, etc). Also, how they intended the statement to benefit the game, and how it ultimately did not.
3. Why the statement is antisocial, wrong, inappropriate etc, and why they chose to make it despite the clearly stated rules.
4. acknowledge that they have broken a cardinal rule of the server, and that racism is inappropriate.
5. Why they deserve to be unbanned despite what they have written above.

Take this with a grain of salt as it is anecdotal evidence, but most people I've seen that use racial slurs aren't racist, they're merely younger people who use the term because it's a "fringe" word i.e., it's not a social norm. Sure there are true racists, but they won't abandon their beliefs because you forced them to explain themselves.

This effectively nudges racism out of the zero tolerance zone which I think is a good idea. However, given the fact that people can barely post in the right forum when posting an appeal I doubt this will have a net positive effect.

[LegalSmash]

Better question, why is it okay to call someone a "fag" (except when it personally offends someone) but not a "nigger". I don't understand why ethnic slurs are in the zero tolerance category while other derogatory terms (religious, sexual, et cetera) are on a case by case basis. I'd personally like to see them all in the zero tolerance category, or none of them in there. Skin color should not be more important than sexual orientation (or others) in my opinion.



Take this with a grain of salt as it is anecdotal evidence, but most people I've seen that use racial slurs aren't racist, they're merely younger people who use the term because it's a "fringe" word i.e., it's not a social norm. Sure there are true racists, but they won't abandon their beliefs because you forced them to explain themselves.

This effectively nudges racism out of the zero tolerance zone which I think is a good idea. However, given the fact that people can barely post in the right forum when posting an appeal I doubt this will have a net positive effect.

Well, here is the thing, if they are old enough to own a computer, and play a game such as CS, they are old enough to understand that certain "fringe" terms are wholly inappropriate. No one is forcing them to abandon their beliefs, but rather that they realize that the term is foolish, their use of it was inappropriate, nor was their conduct.

"Skin color should not be more important than sexual orientation (or others) in my opinion."

I disagree, entirely. Race, National Orgin, and Alienage are the categories termed traditionally as "race" until Sexual orientation is found to be under the same vein under law, I cannot in good conscience abridge freedom of speech, in my own opinion, However, the SA, BD, AOs should get together and determine a comprehensive list to put out, with majority ruling.

[AppleShark]

Getting back to what i said earlier (about not thanking Legal), I can't believe all these terms that have been dubbed racist. Not only have I not heard well over half of them, "nagger" is in no way a racial slur.

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

Getting back to what i said earlier (about not thanking Legal), I can't believe all these terms that have been dubbed racist. Not only have I not heard well over half of them, "nagger" is in no way a racial slur.

Yea It Is, It Is Simply A Way Of Saying The N Word With A Southern Accent In Text Form.

[Veggie]

Legal has a good idea if you've got the time to spend trying to make them realize how stupid it really is and hoping they'll come around.

[AppleShark]

No, a nagger is someone who nags. Just because words sound similar to others deemed offensive doesn't mean they have the same meaning. For example, to snigger means to laugh, has that word also been outlawed?

[Leeder]

"Skin color should not be more important than sexual orientation (or others) in my opinion."

I disagree, entirely. Race, National Orgin, and Alienage are the categories termed traditionally as "race" until Sexual orientation is found to be under the same vein under law, I cannot in good conscience abridge freedom of speech, in my own opinion, However, the SA, BD, AOs should get together and determine a comprehensive list to put out, with majority ruling.

So it's alright to call someone a homo? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Lux]

Actually, the word has only one commonly accepted meaning luxorz in the US, and it is not to call someone a "fucker".


So what??? It doesn't exactly matter what the TRUE definition is.

Many words are used out of context, when people say "you fucker" they don't mean you are fucking someone, to be honest is that even offensive???

When people say "you bastard" they don't mean that you are an actually bastard.

AND when people say "you nigger" they don't mean that you are actually a black inferior race slave.

So in my opinion, saying nigger is the same as saying any of these words, just with more offence. That is the only reason they use it, because they are really pissed, and "you fucker" doesn't cut it.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, make it so that they know it is unacceptable. If you perm ban them it isn't fair really, people say offensive things all the time and unless its at an admin nothing would happen.

[LegalSmash]

My friend, the key is "in common usage".

As for "you homo" it essentially is the same as "you nigger" because o the manner used, as for nagger, south park writers have essentially converted the word from "nagging" to a term synonymous with "nigger" further, when you say "you bunch of naggers" and no one has been nagging you, its rather obvious what you are technically intended to say, or you are a fucktard that was intending to appear "edgy" and perhaps you SHOULD have to do it... again, of all the words you can use, why those?

Further, your allusion to using the word "sniggardly" is inappropriate... Hell, I'll take it on take further "niggardly" has a perfectly non racial meaning in english... but its an adjective.. Not a verb. You don't call people adjectives "you stupid" you call them a noun, modified at times, by an adjective or an adverb "you stupid asshole" & "you shiftless, lazy asshole".

The word bastard means an unfathered child... I cannot tell you how ridiculously often we use the word in law, but we dont use it incorrectly "what do we do about the bastards in this will" is an appropriate statement, whereas "you bastard" when you know the person has both parents and a family makes quite little sense.

I think that the proposed policy not only watches out for the server, but for the interest of the imbeciles that cannot keep their foot out of their mouths for 10 min at a time.

[SpikedRocker]

As for "you homo" it essentially is the same as "you nigger" because o the manner used, as for nagger, south park writers have essentially converted the word from "nagging" to a term synonymous with "nigger" further, when you say "you bunch of naggers" and no one has been nagging you, its rather obvious what you are technically intended to say, or you are a fucktard that was intending to appear "edgy" and perhaps you SHOULD have to do it... again, of all the words you can use, why those?


Amen!:thumbup1:

[Astrum]

As for "you homo" it essentially is the same as "you nigger" because o [sic] the manner used...

Then why is this suggestion limited to ethnic slurs? It could easily be expanded to other pejorative slurs. If "you homo" is essentially the same as "you nigger" in the context it is used in i.e., in a nonsensical insult, then why does one get a ban requiring this new appeal procedure and the other not?

I mostly agree with your proposal, I'm just being a bit tangental and questioning social norms that tend to reflect that racial slurs are Very Bad(TM) and other derogatory terms are A Little Bad(TM). So don't necessarily take this as opposition to your proposal.

[A.C. Slater]

Just wondering, is anyone here(or has anyone here seen anyone...) offended by the word Cracker? At all? I seriously haven't seen anyone offended by the term cracker except racist skinheads...


Just wondering, because cracker isn't really an offensive term to anybody who you would let play in these servers anyway, really it seems you just added that in to be "politically correct".

[broncoty]

So what??? It doesn't exactly matter what the TRUE definition is.

Many words are used out of context, when people say "you fucker" they don't mean you are fucking someone, to be honest is that even offensive???

When people say "you bastard" they don't mean that you are an actually bastard.

AND when people say "you nigger" they don't mean that you are actually a black inferior race slave.

So in my opinion, saying nigger is the same as saying any of these words, just with more offence. That is the only reason they use it, because they are really pissed, and "you fucker" doesn't cut it.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, make it so that they know it is unacceptable. If you perm ban them it isn't fair really, people say offensive things all the time and unless its at an admin nothing would happen.

I guess you have never been called a sand nigger, or something along those lines before have you?

[Taylor]

Just wondering, is anyone here(or has anyone here seen anyone...) offended by the word Cracker? At all? I seriously haven't seen anyone offended by the term cracker except racist skinheads...


Just wondering, because cracker isn't really an offensive term to anybody who you would let play in these servers anyway, really it seems you just added that in to be "politically correct".

I think it offends white people in the southern area, as I think wigger should also be bannable too.

[Lux]

I guess you have never been called a sand nigger, or something along those lines before have you?

Never even heard of "sand nigger", but what is this meant to mean anyway??

I wouldn't get offended by being called a sand nigger because I'm not one, even if did they something offensive relating to me, either laugh or go back at them, no need to cry its the interwebz.

[Zargotelc]

There is NO excuse for using the n word and anyone who uses it , regardless of racist intent or not , should be banned or at least kicked.

Some of the rationalizations you'll see in the appeals thread for using that word are just mind-boggling. I remember some kid tried to defend his use of the n-word in appeals , saying it wasn't meant in a racist way when he kept throwing it around in chat. Dude claimed he was just using that word to refer to noobs. No. There is only ONE connotation of that word , and it refers to black people. There is no other possible interpretation. People in game who are noobs are not n-words.

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

No, a nagger is someone who nags. Just because words sound similar to others deemed offensive doesn't mean they have the same meaning. For example, to snigger means to laugh, has that word also been outlawed?

Lol Appleshark, When Was The Last Time You Said ROFS???

I Dont Think I Have Ever Heard Someone Say Snigger As Opposed To Laughed.

Although People Shouldn't Be Banned For Snigger Anyways Since It Isnt A Derogatory Slur.

[Veggie]

Say What?!?

"AND when people say "you nigger" they don't mean that you are actually a black inferior race slave."

I think your totally wrong there. Also people will use words similar to try and get away with using racism such as "Nagger" etc. etc.

[Lux]

So, every word you ever use is for its sole purpose?

As I said before, people call people fuckers, bastards, shit heads (this inparticular), and they don't mean the "real" meaning, this is exactly the same, just more severe.

[Dracula]

Hey Legal y arnt u at least AO yet we needs a vote!!!

[LegalSmash]

Then why is this suggestion limited to ethnic slurs? It could easily be expanded to other pejorative slurs. If "you homo" is essentially the same as "you nigger" in the context it is used in i.e., in a nonsensical insult, then why does one get a ban requiring this new appeal procedure and the other not?

I mostly agree with your proposal, I'm just being a bit tangental and questioning social norms that tend to reflect that racial slurs are Very Bad(TM) and other derogatory terms are A Little Bad(TM). So don't necessarily take this as opposition to your proposal.

Race, national origin, and immigrant status are currently generally accepted as immutable characteristics. Further, there is still a lack of general consensus as to the status of terms such as "faggot, homo, gay, etc." if the community decides to ban the terms, all is well, ends well, however, it is not a physically evident, immutable characteristic, like race. As a matter of fact, most traditionally "oppressed (as they say) minority groups actually get pretty mad when the gay lobby tries to compare abuses with them.... no one can look at you generally and tell you are gay, you cant really hide black-ness.

Again, while I may not believe it should be included, I am not going to go out and picket the inclusion of it past politely, but strongly dissenting. I dont use the terms like condiments on a hot dog, so its not as if I am going to have to be appealing...

[Zargotelc]

I guess it depends on context. Like if I go in game "AFK smoking a fag" all you brits know what I'm talking about. :laugh:

Lux , I have seen people throw around racial slurs at people who weren't even that race , but those are in very informal situations. This is a server with at most 40 people. People won't get as offended with motherfucker , asshat , fucker , son of a bitch , and shit face as they will with those types of powerful racial words.

[Leeder]

How about.. Everyone keep 1 demo per round and clear them weekly, and if you catch something, you decide if it's a bannable offense based on term & context?

It's what I do.

[Astrum]

Race, national origin, and immigrant status are currently generally accepted as immutable characteristics. Further, there is still a lack of general consensus as to the status of terms such as "faggot, homo, gay, etc." if the community decides to ban the terms, all is well, ends well, however, it is not a physically evident, immutable characteristic, like race. ... no one can look at you generally and tell you are gay, you cant really hide black-ness.

This is an online community, information isn't known unless explicitly given by a person. National origin can be ascertained if you have a keen ear, but I've never seen any derogatory terms hurled at international users. The point is ethnicity is not physically evident in this context, nor is sexual orientation or religion, et cetera. So if we're going by only physically evident characteristics then only sex and national origin should be included in this proposal. If you include ethnicity then it would be illogical to leave out sexual orientation et al.

[Lux]

This is going to end up with all swears being banned and a nice happy server.........:thumbdown:

You have to draw a line somewhere, I think racial remarks is a good line but I just don't think these terms are used in that offensive kind of way.

Zargo they would only be more offended by a racial term if they are of that race. If they got offended otherwise it would be because they either want to ban the guy because they don't like him or because they don't like being compared to black people or so on....in which case they are racist themselves I guess.

[Omar]

you forgot the word paki.
oh and.. as for racism...
its not only what words u use.. but also like if a guy comes and say... "where you from" and then i say "Iraq, you?" then he says "go back and do suicide bombings u fuckin terrorist, iraqi shit, fuckin iraqi, go suicide bomb"

I consider that as racism. its like "yo what race are u" "im black?"
"GO BACK TO UR SHIPS U SLAVE"... its racist. just becouse u dont say a word doesnt it mean that ur not a racist.

[Mammal]

How 'bout you just get muted for 5 mins after using a racist word (an auto mute, not manual).
Would stop it altoegther.

[Omar]

Racism is a disgusting thing.

If I see anyone do it on the servers it's an immediate ban and screenshot of console to bump it up to permanent.

There. is. no. excuse.

If people be cocky around it and it's obvious that they're lying, then a ban (not perm) for racism and disrespecting admins.

If I walked around even in my local town and frogmarched or shouted "Heil ze führer" or shouted offencive words like nigger, coon, paki, kraut, dago, chink, guinea etc. I would be arrested and put up in court for inciting racial hatred, among other things.

Racism is against the law, and if someone is offended on a server by someone then legal action can be pursued.

Stop arsing about and making excuses for ignorant dickheads.

why i dont report other ppl for racism against me. is becouse i dont think any one care.. i dont think they will do anythin about it becouse there isnt any important member of this forum/community who is like me.

[Taylor]

why i dont report other ppl for racism against me. is becouse i dont think any one care.. i dont think they will do anythin about it becouse there isnt any important member of this forum/community who is like me.

Feeling lonly are we?

So if there is someone like you their not important? anyways, you should still report racism no matter what, noones goning to deny you the feeling of comfort that that person is banned just because their not like you...

as with the snigger and nagger,I still think it would count as racism

IE (FUCK YOU SNIGGER!) probably added the S so it may fool some people who arn't really well adjusted to certain racist remarks. And nagger lets say that some one was playing a game, and accidentaly TKed the person who is about to say a no-no word, so he lets it out FUCK YOU NAGGER!, but what if the TKer was not nagging, but again hopefully a way to cleverly disguisze their racil slur used against that person.. To me it all comes to they way the victim was acting and how the"racist ment it"

[TofuShop]

Feeling lonly are we?

So if there is someone like you their not important? anyways, you should still report racism no matter what, noones goning to deny you the feeling of comfort that that person is banned just because their not like you...

as with the snigger and nagger,I still think it would count as racism

IE (FUCK YOU SNIGGER!) probably added the S so it may fool some people who arn't really well adjusted to certain racist remarks. And nagger lets say that some one was playing a game, and accidentaly TKed the person who is about to say a no-no word, so he lets it out FUCK YOU NAGGER!, but what if the TKer was not nagging, but again hopefully a way to cleverly disguisze their racil slur used against that person.. To me it all comes to they way the victim was acting and how the"racist ment it"

As much as kids throw these words around, I think branding someone with the title racist is a bit premature. I am against racism as much as the next but banning based on so called "intentions" is fairly rediculous since most of the people who say it have probably never even met a person of ethnic background. I would consider calling them racist is an insult to racists. Stick to banning the word, the rest simply lack intelligent understanding and logic.

It is just a pet peeve of mine, but it is the "Goose Step" Havok, not the frogmarch. Just a correction is all. Side note, although you may be frowned on for hailing the furor once again, the step is questionable considering it is a military tool.

[Dracula]

why i dont report other ppl for racism against me. is becouse i dont think any one care.. i dont think they will do anythin about it becouse there isnt any important member of this forum/community who is like me.

That or you know people are just messin wit u

lol im so baord today :[

[Omar]

lol drac. i know ur messin with me.. but theres that fuckin lil kid. named Light and hes always like that. and no hes not messin with me..

[Dracula]

Well have fun wit that

[Omar]

well by the judge of the sigs and comments the Admins make, i dont think they would help me if the racism was against me, and my race/religion

[PotshotPolka]

well by the judge of the sigs and comments the Admins make, i dont think they would help me if the racism was against me, and my race/religion

Omar there is no racism among the admins, atleast not here or on the servers.
If you think it's really that bad stare at it for a while, and you will realize it isn't directed at muslims, but the moment you read that thing tehsnipes wrote, which was just a cheapshot from a banned player, you go grumbling about it.

And personally, why can't people just dry the hell up, we need goddamn Rombas on the forum to clean up all this fricken Edrama.

EDIT:

why i dont report other ppl for racism against me. is becouse i dont think any one care.. i dont think they will do anythin about it becouse there isnt any important member of this forum/community who is like me.
__________________
Omar, read this shit that you are stating, people like you? What the hell is this? You are actually discriminating that all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause. That's something that leads to reverse-discrimination.
__________________

[LegalSmash]

Omar there is no racism among the admins, atleast not here or on the servers.
If you think it's really that bad stare at it for a while, and you will realize it isn't directed at muslims, but the moment you read that thing tehsnipes wrote, which was just a cheapshot from a banned player, you go grumbling about it.

And personally, why can't people just dry the hell up, we need goddamn Rombas on the forum to clean up all this fricken Edrama.

EDIT:

__________________
Omar, read this shit that you are stating, people like you? What the hell is this? You are actually discriminating that all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause. That's something that leads to reverse-discrimination.
__________________

Indeed.

Also, paki is short for pakistani no? Thats not really per se racism, like calling a black guy "a nigger"... its more like calling a british person a brit, or an american a yank from the usage I've seen on it.

Havok, here in the states, Racism isnt illegal, its called unprotected speech, meaning that you can be fired, or chastised or limited in its use (disturbing the peace, etc) but you cannot be imprisoned for the act of it.

[Lux]

Legalsmash "paki" is a racist term used, especially in Europe.

Its like how Japanese are offended by "Jap", I don't know why it is racist but it is, if I said this in my school I would probably be knived to death, or atleast severly beaten.

[Red]

Legal: Paki is the equivalent of nigger to them, though we don't have that prob with the US servers, I can imagine the UK ones do

[PotshotPolka]

Legalsmash "paki" is a racist term used, especially in Europe.

Its like how Japanese are offended by "Jap", I don't know why it is racist but it is, if I said this in my school I would probably be knived to death, or atleast severly beaten.

But he won't be shot!

And no, I've never once heard Jap to be a racist term. How about it, lets add AZN to the racist list.


Legal: Paki is the equivalent of nigger to them, though we don't have that prob with the US servers, I can imagine the UK ones do
That is true, whenever I hop on there seems someone is saying it.


Can this accumulating pile of bilge that started out as a reasonable suggestion be ended?

[LegalSmash]

I actually wanted us to create a system of seperate appeal specifically for racism bans, (see page one, post one) and have the BD, AO, and responsible, active SAs evaluate it.

Somehow my thread has been al-qaeda Hijacked.

[PotshotPolka]

I actually wanted us to create a system of seperate appeal specifically for racism bans, (see page one, post one) and have the BD, AO, and responsible, active SAs evaluate it.

Somehow my thread has been al-qaeda Hijacked.
Meh... I don't have it in me today.

[BOOWY]

But he won't be shot!

And no, I've never once heard Jap to be a racist term. How about it, lets add AZN to the racist list.

The fact that Capcom has had a history of not letting a player type in the initials JAP on arcade machines leads me to believe that it has some negative meaning, like AUM(though this one doesn't have anything to do with racism).

EDIT: AZN by the way is a term coined by Asian people, specifically during the Got Rice period where that song that used the beat from 2Pac's Changes emerged.

[Omar]

Omar there is no racism among the admins, atleast not here or on the servers.
If you think it's really that bad stare at it for a while, and you will realize it isn't directed at muslims, but the moment you read that thing tehsnipes wrote, which was just a cheapshot from a banned player, you go grumbling about it.

And personally, why can't people just dry the hell up, we need goddamn Rombas on the forum to clean up all this fricken Edrama.

EDIT: its not ALL admins or ALL Players.
for example ppl like G-Man who makes pictures saying "SAY HELLO TO ALLAH". and also he team kill me, ruin my cade and. unfortinatly not on our servers.

__________________
Omar, read this shit that you are stating, people like you? What the hell is this? You are actually discriminating that all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause. That's something that leads to reverse-discrimination.
__________________

i didnt say all ppl, what im stating is that ppl dont care that much.
They the word "nigger" to a black person WAY MORE serius. (i dont know how to spell serios, Sry) it is more serios but not that the racism towards muslims is fully ignorned.

[LegalSmash]

i didnt say all ppl, what im stating is that ppl dont care that much.
They the word "nigger" to a black person WAY MORE serius. (i dont know how to spell serios, Sry) it is more serios but not that the racism towards muslims is fully ignorned.

muslims are not a race. Actually unless they are BLACK, WHITE, ASIAN, or AMERICAN indian, you are just a category of one of the above...

[Omar]

[QUOTE=PotshotPolka;71073]
all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause.QUOTE]

some do.

[LegalSmash]

[QUOTE=PotshotPolka;71073]
all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause.[QUOTE]

some do.

Europe's education system says what?

Did you even bother to read the statement he made, quote it appropriately, and then add your pedantic comments?

LOL.

[Suri]

but the moment you read that thing tehsnipes wrote, which was just a cheapshot from a banned player, you go grumbling about it.

_

I was going to say the same thing. Omar did not have a issue with it untill the snipes said something.


Omar why do you have a problem with it? ANd dont just copy and past what snipes said or reword it. I want to hear why you have a issue with it.

[Omar]

[QUOTE=SGT. Omar;71121][QUOTE=PotshotPolka;71073]
all people around here simply think all muslims are inferior/terrorists/ not worth the trouble they cause.

Europe's education system says what?

Did you even bother to read the statement he made, quote it appropriately, and then add your pedantic comments?

LOL.
im sry my forum skills isnt that good. i dont want to get in trouble or banned. so please just leave me ALONE.

[Suri]

[QUOTE=LegalSmash;71127][QUOTE=SGT. Omar;71121]
im sry my forum skills isnt that good. i dont want to get in trouble or banned. so please just leave me ALONE.

Omar who said anything about banning you. I am asking you for your thoughts. And if I asked you to share it how could I ban you for reply to my request.

I just want to know why its such a big deal to a kid from Denmark.

[Omar]

I was going to say the same thing. Omar did not have a issue with it untill the snipes said something.


Omar why do you have a problem with it? ANd dont just copy and past what snipes said or reword it. I want to hear why you have a issue with it.

i did have an issue with it, but i was to lazy to make a big deal out of it. i dont want to. i just think that its offending that ISLAM is pulling of a trigger, its saying to me that all MUSLIMS are a bunch of voilence bastards who likes to shoot shit. wich is offensive to me. :( and i didnt want to start a thread about it becouse i want to stand against a BD.

[PotshotPolka]

i did have an issue with it, but i was to lazy to make a big deal out of it. i dont want to. i just think that its offending that ISLAM is pulling of a trigger, its saying to me that all MUSLIMS are a bunch of voilence bastards who likes to shoot shit. wich is offensive to me. :( and i didnt want to start a thread about it becouse i want to stand against a BD.

Omar that's not racism or discrimination, that's just a misinterpretation on your part.

[Suri]

i did have an issue with it, but i was to lazy to make a big deal out of it. i dont want to. i just think that its offending that ISLAM is pulling of a trigger, its saying to me that all MUSLIMS are a bunch of voilence bastards who likes to shoot shit. wich is offensive to me. :( and i didnt want to start a thread about it becouse i want to stand against a BD.

I will let some one else explain that you are not understanding this cartoon at all. And you are making your mind up about something with out trying to understand or find out what something means.

[PotshotPolka]

This thread should come with popcorn and tissues.
If you would like to discuss the mechanics of it Omar get on vent later and I'll be glad to explain it, no sarcasm.

[Omar]

I will let some one else explain that you are not understanding this cartoon at all. And you are making your mind up about something with out trying to understand or find out what something means.

i dont know who to ask.
and i am trying to understand. but i just dont think there is ANYTHING possitive or nuetral with this sig. but as i said i dont want trouble so ill just keep my mouth shut. and stop complaining. im the only muslim who see the offensive in it so it doesnt matter.
its lost couse.

BD/community against lil iraqi kid.
LOL.

[Suri]

i dont know who to ask.
and i am trying to understand. but i just dont think there is ANYTHING possitive or nuetral with this sig. but as i said i dont want trouble so ill just keep my mouth shut. and stop complaining. im the only muslim who see the offensive in it so it doesnt matter.
its lost couse.

BD/community against lil iraqi kid.
LOL.

For one I did not know you were muslim, and no one has even come close to attacking muslims or lil iraqi kids.

[LegalSmash]

Omar:

I will be as objective as possible in explaining this to you:

1. Cartoon
The cartoon is a phenomenon known as a political cartoon. It is a social commentary, which here is the states is very true. You probably have these in Denmark, it brings sarcasm and humor to a point that is otherwise somewhat grating to the population. The one red has there shows uncle sam, a moniker (symbol) for the united states, shooting himself in the mouth, with a gun labelled liberalism, to which Islam is cocking the revolver. This can basically be construed as liberal policies primarily driven, or somehow motivated by Islam, be it islamophobia and islamophilia. Its not saying "fuck you islam" or "islam is killing the US, its saying that the liberal policies, primarily intended to deal with Islam are going to harm us.

If you look at the freedoms the US citizenry have, and appreciate them, you would understand. We have a largely limited freedom of speech, Islam and islamic countries dislike this, as persons can criticize church (of any kind), government, and ridicule points in public without fear of reprisal from the state. We have the freedom to marry whomever, within our own desires, so long as its of the opposite sex... We have the right to publish mostly anything, and do it openly and unabashedly... Most islamic countries are organized as a theocracy, either defacto (iran) or dejure, where clerics, imams, etc. have a great deal of power. This is the equivalent to the 1600s in Europe, and its largely an alien concept to them. The liberal policies the gun represents are acts, laws attempted at passage, and sentiments that seek to quash the freedoms that we hold. Get it?

2. Banning

3. Why people lash at your commentary at times

[Omar]

For one I did not know you were muslim, and no one has even come close to attacking muslims or lil iraqi kids.

lol. i didnt say attacking. im just sayin that nobody is with me. and i thought u knew i was a muslim. or else i wouldnt be offended.

[Omar]

Omar:

I will be as objective as possible in explaining this to you:

1. Cartoon
The cartoon is a phenomenon known as a political cartoon. It is a social commentary, which here is the states is very true. You probably have these in Denmark, it brings sarcasm and humor to a point that is otherwise somewhat grating to the population. The one red has there shows uncle sam, a moniker (symbol) for the united states, shooting himself in the mouth, with a gun labelled liberalism, to which Islam is cocking the revolver. This can basically be construed as liberal policies primarily driven, or somehow motivated by Islam, be it islamophobia and islamophilia. Its not saying "fuck you islam" or "islam is killing the US, its saying that the liberal policies, primarily intended to deal with Islam are going to harm us.

If you look at the freedoms the US citizenry have, and appreciate them, you would understand. We have a largely limited freedom of speech, Islam and islamic countries dislike this, as persons can criticize church (of any kind), government, and ridicule points in public without fear of reprisal from the state. We have the freedom to marry whomever, within our own desires, so long as its of the opposite sex... We have the right to publish mostly anything, and do it openly and unabashedly... Most islamic countries are organized as a theocracy, either defacto (iran) or dejure, where clerics, imams, etc. have a great deal of power. This is the equivalent to the 1600s in Europe, and its largely an alien concept to them. The liberal policies the gun represents are acts, laws attempted at passage, and sentiments that seek to quash the freedoms that we hold. Get it?

2. Banning

3. Why people lash at your commentary at times

what do u mean by 2. Banning. and what do want me to say?

[LegalSmash]

what do u mean by 2. Banning. and what do want me to say?

Well, I doubt you would get banned for expressing yourself.

[Omar]

Well, I doubt you would get banned for expressing yourself.

so u think i wont get banned? and... what do want me to say about ur long post? i mean. should i say "okidokey, im sry, my opoligize, u win and i lose"?

[Lux]

The picture wasn't racist, it was just misread.

I do feel however that sometimes Omar has a right to be offended. America is at war with Iraq and they are Muslim. Terrorists aren't all Muslim, but at this current time quite a few are.

By mocking this it does link back to Islam, and I especially see people freely saying "Allahhhhhhhhhhhh" and mocking it. These are sensitive issues, especially with races and religions are constant abuse.

[PotshotPolka]

The picture wasn't racist, it was just misread.

I do feel however that sometimes Omar has a right to be offended. America is at war with Iraq and they are Muslim. Terrorists aren't all Muslim, but at this current time quite a few are.

By mocking this it does link back to Islam, and I especially see people freely saying "Allahhhhhhhhhhhh" and mocking it. These are sensitive issues, especially with races and religions are constant abuse.

Sensitive issues belong in the pantry with cheezits, now let the thread burn in a lake of fire.

[LegalSmash]

Sensitive issues belong in the pantry with cheezits, now let the thread burn in a lake of fire.

All I wanted was to propose something.... Halle-Berry

[Omar]

what... some people can not be discussed with.. im out.

[Dracula]

ROLF PARTY TIME :partydance::partydance::partydance::partydance::p artydance::partydance::partydance:

[broncoty]

Never even heard of "sand nigger", but what is this meant to mean anyway??

I wouldn't get offended by being called a sand nigger because I'm not one, even if did they something offensive relating to me, either laugh or go back at them, no need to cry its the interwebz.


I have some Armenian in me which is why I have been called a sand nigger or a terrorist among other things.

I would seriously doubt you would laugh it off.

Ya it does not relate to you, but you are not the one being attacked are you?

[Taylor]

Omar its just a P.cartoon, sometimes they can make the cartoon seem what its not. Noone has anything bad or against muslims, I don't! and just because we had some timid times in europe (iraq blah blah blah) Doesn't mean we hate them! Come on man!

[Lux]

I have some Armenian in me which is why I have been called a sand nigger or a terrorist among other things.

I would seriously doubt you would laugh it off.

Ya it does not relate to you, but you are not the one being attacked are you?

If they aren't relating it at you yourself then why get a period over it??? By calling me a sand nigger, why would I get offended, its an empty insult.

People say bad things all the time, if I get offended by everything then I will end up being an emo, or some suicide bomber or whatever......

[Red]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v694/unclespellbinder/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[Italian Jew]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4745/copycatwj9.jpg

[Taylor]

so are cracker, paki, and coon racist?