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Habibi
6 Jul 2015, 03:19pm
I need clarification on this rule from an AO+ PLEASE! Getting mixed opinions regarding this rule from SA's.


When I read the !rules on the server, I understand the baiting rule is only when you run into Terrorists while they are knifing. However, for about two weeks, many little boys are complaining that baiting is when a CT gets close to a Terrorist and that they are allowed to knife and kill a CT if we get close and we can't do nothing to them.

As far as I understand, this has never been a rule on PB and does not make sense why they would add it just because it makes it 10x harder to check for guns to move around between cells and kill rebels if we can't get close to them.

If they choose to knife us, we kill them simple. But if we run into them knifing and they hit us by accident then that is baiting? Isn't that LogiC?



Sincerely,

capp'n
6 Jul 2015, 03:28pm
Baiting is when a CT happens to run into a T while he's knifing, not when a CT is super close to a T. Then that's like saying if they happen to intersect paths the T would knife or kill a CT that happened to go close to him without any intentions would just not be KOS.


The 'little boys' complaining of baiting is technically wrong


You're right.


Source: My understanding and of other people that have played for years in SG PB.

Turtlefiish
6 Jul 2015, 03:33pm
Baiting is when a CT happens to run into a T while he's knifing, not when a CT is super close to a T. Then that's like saying if they happen to intersect paths the T would knife or kill a CT that happened to go close to him without any intentions would just not be KOS.

This is it, the T has to be already knifing for it to be baiting. Although, I've never actually seen someone "bait" a T without the T then going in for the kill immediately afterwards, but that's irrelevant.

Nuclear Onion
6 Jul 2015, 03:54pm
If a T is just standing there where they are supposed to be (say in kitchen doorway), air knifing, then a CT walks into that said air knife to get damaged, the CT has no right to kill them. But from what I gather from what you are saying is that people are twisting the rule saying "oh look, the CT is 5 feet next to me so I can kill them and yell BAITING, then FREEKILL if they kill me!" This is either them being stupid or actually being shady, that's for you guys to decide since I lack playing time in the server for the past month.

I would comment if a CT dies from baiting, but really it shouldn't ever even happen in the first place since most likely they'll get hit by one left click knife, then go on to medic while their teammates watch the ts (that's what I'd imagine that is).

This also kind of answers what you are asking


EXAMPLE; There is a freeday going on and a T is following you around. You warn him to stay at least 10 feet away or else you'll kill him. While in pursuit, he gets too close for comfort and you dome him. Congratulations, you've just freekilled.

If a T is in pursuit of you and air-knifes, that doesn't give you permission to kill them.
Same goes if a T throws a grenade; you can only kill if it hits a CT teammate.

Taken from my boy Newbie ^ http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076

The rules haven't changed at all from CS:S, if a kid says what isn't baiting is baiting, just tell the little child to be silent.

Habibi
6 Jul 2015, 04:20pm
Thanks that's what I thought. I will be sure to refer the noobs to this thread as reference. It's just when some SA's don't understand this rule and try to enforce what the noobs are saying, the rules get all fucked up.

Thanks for the fast response qt

Bdcoll
6 Jul 2015, 04:36pm
Although I would argue that if a CT is going up and standing in front of the T's in knifing range on purpose, looking to get knifed so they can get a kill, it should at the very least counts as a weird way of gun planting, if not actively working against your own team.

Nuclear Onion
6 Jul 2015, 04:43pm
Thanks that's what I thought. I will be sure to refer the noobs to this thread as reference. It's just when some SA's don't understand this rule and try to enforce what the noobs are saying, the rules get all fucked up.

Thanks for the fast response qt

No problem, it's one of the harder rules to really administrate since you can't fully tell if someone is air knifing or running up to the CT and knifing.



Although I would argue that if a CT is going up and standing in front of the T's in knifing range on purpose, looking to get knifed so they can get a kill, it should at the very least counts as a weird way of gun planting, if not actively working against your own team.

Well yeah, CTs shouldn't be hugging the Prisoners, but that still doesn't give the right for the prisoner to kill them. If anything, remind them to stand a bit clear from them to avoid getting raped.

Toyz
6 Jul 2015, 04:52pm
Thanks that's what I thought. I will be sure to refer the noobs to this thread as reference. It's just when some SA's don't understand this rule and try to enforce what the noobs are saying, the rules get all fucked up.

Thanks for the fast response qt

BRUH u were hugging me 24/7.

Motox
6 Jul 2015, 04:55pm
BRUH u were hugging me 24/7.

did he tell you to get on the bed or dead

capp'n
6 Jul 2015, 04:58pm
did he tell you to get on the bed or dead

he told me to secure the perimeter

Wawa
6 Jul 2015, 05:04pm
As has been said, baiting as a CT is walking into a T who is air knifing. Personally, I've only warned people in chat for it and I've rarely seen actual baiting happen. I've never punished anyone for baiting, and it's in my opinion not really an issue right now.

Nuclear Onion
6 Jul 2015, 05:21pm
he told me to secure the perimeter

shut up hose

BlackWhite
7 Jul 2015, 04:57am
There is also in some cases where CT run into a place where it's fill with Ts (medic, bigcage, soccer field) won't it be still baiting?

Or when the t need to somewhere else, lets says to the pool but a ct is blocking the entrance. It's hard to say if the ct ran to t's knife if the T is knifing or the T just start knifing toward CT because of no delays rule.

Though i don't agreed on the T can knife any ct if they are close to them or hugging, but can we punish them for that?

There was couple of time some ct just hugging some t and shoot the rebel along with some Ts that was near the rebel.

Bdcoll
7 Jul 2015, 05:32am
Tbh its that exact situation that BlackWhite is describing that has led to this blur in the lines between what "Baiting" is, and what we now perceive it to be.

Perhaps the rules need to be adjusted to reflect this ( And possibly officially adding in the rules about CT not camping vents/armoury)

Lupin
7 Jul 2015, 05:51am
There is also in some cases where CT run into a place where it's fill with Ts (medic, bigcage, soccer field) won't it be still baiting?

Or when the t need to somewhere else, lets says to the pool but a ct is blocking the entrance. It's hard to say if the ct ran to t's knife if the T is knifing or the T just start knifing toward CT because of no delays rule.


99% of the time when a CT "blocks" the Ts from getting into a certain area, he's just knifed in the back meaning the T(s) that hit him are considered rebelling. If a CT runs into a crowded CT place like medic or iso, then he's just an idiot and deserved to die. However at the end of the day, the T that kills him is still considered a rebel.




There was couple of time some ct just hugging some t and shoot the rebel along with some Ts that was near the rebel.
Not really sure what you're saying here, but im assuming it's crossfire? Ts should be able to control themselves on when they should rebel or not or at least plan the attack on the CTs hugging them.(One of the best part about being a T imo.) Crossfiring should still be legal unless there was a ridiculous amount of casualties.




Perhaps the rules need to be adjusted to reflect this ( And possibly officially adding in the rules about CT not camping vents/armoury)
There already is a rule about CTs camping armory/vents. If it benefits the team, then it will be allowed. If you're the last CT and still camping armory/vents, you should be beaconed/slayed.

FE:I sit in armory in maps like VIP for a few seconds of the round in case of anyone rebelling/taking a teleporter there even if orders were like "go to pool" or "go to soccer." If im last CT and still sitting in armory, the situation should be evaluated by an admin on whether or not i'm "delaying the round." If there's multiple Ts around armory then I shouldn't be beaconed/slayed. However if all the Ts are still sitting in soccer or w/e and i'm still sitting in armory, I should be beaconed or warned and slayed if i fail to listen.


IDK if what i wrote makes any sense since i haven't slept in like 20 hours.

Goku
7 Jul 2015, 11:45am
Way I always understood it was this:

Baiting is enticing or encouraging the T to knife you by either running into them while they are already knifing, or being in close proximity of them in a situation where all ts should be in say iso. If a CT walks into iso, that is baiting. Basically any situation where the urge to knife the CT is extremely tempting due to the likeliness of the CT dieing easily.

As for punishing, I always understood it as the CT is not allowed to bait, however that doesn't mean the T is allowed to knife him. Meaning even if a CT is baiting, the T can still be killed for attacking and it wouldn't be a free kill.

Honestly it is a very gray area that is hard to define.

Vy
7 Jul 2015, 11:49am
When I read the !rules on the server, I understand the baiting rule is only when you run into Terrorists while they are knifing. However, for about two weeks, many little boys are complaining that baiting is when a CT gets close to a Terrorist and that they are allowed to knife and kill a CT if we get close and we can't do nothing to them. If a terrorist knifes you for any reason at all - you can kill him. Obviously if you ran into a terrorist that is knifing the air and get knifed and kill it, it can be counted as baiting.

BlackWhite
7 Jul 2015, 11:58am
Way I always understood it was this:

Baiting is enticing or encouraging the T to knife you by either running into them while they are already knifing, or being in close proximity of them in a situation where all ts should be in say iso. If a CT walks into iso, that is baiting. Basically any situation where the urge to knife the CT is extremely tempting due to the likeliness of the CT dieing easily.

As for punishing, I always understood it as the CT is not allowed to bait, however that doesn't mean the T is allowed to knife him. Meaning even if a CT is baiting, the T can still be killed for attacking and it wouldn't be a free kill.

Honestly it is a very gray area that is hard to define.

this is why i want to know where is the line, plus hugging t is some sort of gun planting too. If a rebel knifed the CT, the gun might drop on another T, which might lead to the death of whoever hold the gun

Habibi
7 Jul 2015, 04:26pm
Armory and vents should be allowed to be camped by Ct's during free-days to secure and prevent the terrorists from rebelling. However, they shouldn't be camping to avoid helping their teammates or delay the round.

The way I've always seen it is that a terrorist has the full ability to control themselves from knifing a CT (excluding the situation where the CT runs into their knife) and even if a CT is the middle of a crowd of terrorists, the terrorists who attempt and try to kill the CT should be executed, no questions. I mean they committed MURDER OR ATTEMPTED MURDER.

Motox
7 Jul 2015, 05:55pm
Armory and vents should be allowed to be camped by Ct's during free-days to secure and prevent the terrorists from rebelling. However, they shouldn't be camping to avoid helping their teammates or delay the round.

The way I've always seen it is that a terrorist has the full ability to control themselves from knifing a CT (excluding the situation where the CT runs into their knife) and even if a CT is the middle of a crowd of terrorists, the terrorists who attempt and try to kill the CT should be executed, no questions. I mean they committed MURDER OR ATTEMPTED MURDER.

This is pretty much the most accurate response. The Ts should have the common sense to understand the validity of their actions before acting on them, if you're going to knife a CT because he's sitting in the corner of medic with all the other Ts in there, 1. You should expect to be sprayed down, 2. You should expect you're going to get your team mates killed in crossfire, or 3. You might actually get him since he can't aim.

For the CT in that case, like Lupin said, they should use common sense, wait for the Ts to leave medic before entering to heal. If they do enter, then go ahead and knife him if you want, but expect either of the 3 options stated above.


Though i don't agreed on the T can knife any ct if they are close to them or hugging, but can we punish them for that?

There was couple of time some ct just hugging some t and shoot the rebel along with some Ts that was near the rebel.

I've seen cases where CTs will hide behind Ts to take cover from rebellers, and then Ts will get caught in crossfire. If this happens, it's definitely worth a slay. Because you don't have to hide behind Ts to take cover, and them getting killed in the process is blatantly freekilling. Also, if say a CT hops into Big Cage with the Ts there and happens to get knifed, then you should obviously kill the perpetrator. But, there is the likely happening of prisoners picking up the weapon. Now this is a problem because in the rules it clearly defines the holding of a primary as KOSable, but we all know that if there's a primary in Big Cage, then it's going to get juggled around for a while until someone throws it out. Now, should this mean that anyone who picks it up should get shot on the spot? Probably not, but if they aim it at you then you should definitely have the right to shoot them.

Overall, just use common sense when playing. And try to have fun with everyone.

BlackWhite
7 Jul 2015, 07:00pm
This is pretty much the most accurate response. The Ts should have the common sense to understand the validity of their actions before acting on them, if you're going to knife a CT because he's sitting in the corner of medic with all the other Ts in there, 1. You should expect to be sprayed down, 2. You should expect you're going to get your team mates killed in crossfire, or 3. You might actually get him since he can't aim.

For the CT in that case, like Lupin said, they should use common sense, wait for the Ts to leave medic before entering to heal. If they do enter, then go ahead and knife him if you want, but expect either of the 3 options stated above.



I've seen cases where CTs will hide behind Ts to take cover from rebellers, and then Ts will get caught in crossfire. If this happens, it's definitely worth a slay. Because you don't have to hide behind Ts to take cover, and them getting killed in the process is blatantly freekilling. Also, if say a CT hops into Big Cage with the Ts there and happens to get knifed, then you should obviously kill the perpetrator. But, there is the likely happening of prisoners picking up the weapon. Now this is a problem because in the rules it clearly defines the holding of a primary as KOSable, but we all know that if there's a primary in Big Cage, then it's going to get juggled around for a while until someone throws it out. Now, should this mean that anyone who picks it up should get shot on the spot? Probably not, but if they aim it at you then you should definitely have the right to shoot them.

Overall, just use common sense when playing. And try to have fun with everyone.

implying they have common sense(?)