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Mudkip™
4 Jul 2015, 10:07pm
Can we get some more clear rules on PB? Literally nobody in the world knows exactly what the rules are so people just make shit up. It's been this way for years now and I'm sick of all these implied rules that are written nowhere. Every time I connect to the server I or somebody else gets punished or threatened by admins for rules that are literally nowhere to be found and it's getting really old.

If it's not an admin using !say to tell me to stop camping armory when everybody is still alive, I get called a freekiller and other random shit at least 50 times if I'm connected to the server for like 20 minutes, while breaking 0 rules that are listed.

The servers need way clearer rules and making these random rules up as a power-trip really needs to stop. PB needs a new MOTD, extended !rules, and anything else that would help clarify what is supposed to happen in the server.

DoubleSb
4 Jul 2015, 10:09pm
pls.

too lazy to make another post so i'll edit this one

in addition to what harpo said there needs to be a clearer rules not just for the players but for admins aswell.

harpo
4 Jul 2015, 10:10pm
Honestly have to agree with mudkip here certain server rules are not outlined clearly and causes alot of people to make mistakes that they don't understand why they are being punished for it. If possible I would like to see something like what mudkip mentioned to happen.

BlackWhite
4 Jul 2015, 10:14pm
just saying but, I have already told BoM and Onion that. Not sure what they say anymore but i think it's something with it's clear enough/implied

Toyz
4 Jul 2015, 10:20pm
Can we get some more clear rules on PB? Literally nobody in the world knows exactly what the rules are so people just make shit up. It's been this way for years now and I'm sick of all these implied rules that are written nowhere. Every time I connect to the server I or somebody else gets punished or threatened by admins for rules that are literally nowhere to be found and it's getting really old.

If it's not an admin using !say to tell me to stop camping armory when everybody is still alive, I get called a freekiller and other random shit at least 50 times if I'm connected to the server for like 20 minutes, while breaking 0 rules that are listed.

The servers need way clearer rules and making these random rules up as a power-trip really needs to stop. PB needs a new MOTD, extended !rules, and anything else that would help clarify what is supposed to happen in the server.

OK i'll be with you guys in this side.

Also !rules only give out basic rules, no one likes to read long stuff.


Correct me if i'm wrong.

-Camping armory and vents are not slay-able unless they are delaying the round. I've seen too many people getting slayed for this. Seriously if a CT don't camp armory, terrorist will always win 99% of the time.

-Teleporters are KoS, except the one in sky. Since everyone have to teleport to get outside.

-When a

-Cat walks (That leads to armory) are KOS. I know every catwalks in css was kos but most CT now thinks that every higher ground is a "Catwalk"" and people get killed for it.

-Warning shots should only be used once. If you get warning shot and you're still dis-obeying. Don't complain that you get killed.

This is some of the problems we're having.

Give me more questions and i'll answer it. Again if i'm wrong, correct me.

Mudkip™
4 Jul 2015, 10:21pm
i think it's something with it's clear enough/implied

What is clear enough/implied?? The MOTD has almost no information and the rules are equally underwhelming compared to the amount of rules that are only told over voice and text. If they're rules admins shouldn't have to be hounding me about it. If it's a rule it needs to be in the the rules, not people screaming over mic crying about it. Rules aren't clear at all compared to what they need to be.

Toyz
4 Jul 2015, 10:28pm
also, sorry for the outburst earlier. But you guys did come out waay too strong about the slay.

Let's settle it here. i hope BoM and Nuclear Onion read this.

Nuclear Onion
4 Jul 2015, 10:28pm
I would really like if this thread wouldn't go out so rude you know? Seriously, I'm not going to listen to you if you come out and say I do a shit job at stating the rules, alright?

I'll look over the rules again when I'm not half dead kthx

DoubleSb
4 Jul 2015, 10:31pm
I would really like if this thread wouldn't go out so rude you know? Seriously, I'm not going to listen to you if you come out and say I do a shit job at stating the rules, alright?

I'll look over the rules again when I'm not half dead kthx

you're drunk. calm yourself.


also, sorry for the outburst earlier. But you guys did come out waay too strong about the slay.

Let's settle it here. i hope BoM and Nuclear Onion read this.

nah it wasn't that, it was the shit getting pulled in the server all day. you just happened to join toward the end of it.

Mudkip™
4 Jul 2015, 10:32pm
I would really like if this thread wouldn't go out so rude you know? Seriously, I'm not going to listen to you if you come out and say I do a shit job at stating the rules, alright?

I'll look over the rules again when I'm not half dead kthx

wasn't intending to be rude on this thread at all. if you're refering to me messaging you on TS asking to talk then yeah I was pretty mad at the time because literally not a single one of the like 25 admins i was trying to talk to would listen, but thats over.



ANYWAYS:

MOTD and !Rules has nothing even mentioning KoS areas. This is just one of the many things that makes everything so fucking confusing...

Mandeemoo007
4 Jul 2015, 10:38pm
I know that this is a big problem on PB but the main problem is that we have to keep it somewhat short. Because 95% of new players won't read the actual rules for the server. And if someone does before they join and see a shit ton of rules, I think they would just leave and go to another server.

Toyz
4 Jul 2015, 10:50pm
I know that this is a big problem on PB but the main problem is that we have to keep it somewhat short. Because 95% of new players won't read the actual rules for the server. And if someone does before they join and see a shit ton of rules, I think they would just leave and go to another server.

I believe we have enough regulars right now.

Back then all KOS spot were implied and never have to be said.
I think its just taking toll on some admins. We're humans too.
Kids screaming freeday and complaining about being freekilled while in armory can kill a soul.

Mandeemoo007
4 Jul 2015, 10:56pm
I believe we have enough regulars right now.

Back then all KOS spot were implied and never have to be said.
I think its just taking toll on some admins. We're humans too.
Kids screaming freeday and complaining about being freekilled while in armory can kill a soul.

K, I was just saying that because I honestly haven't been on the PB server to know who are regulars and who isn't. But if we have a big enough regular community then I think it would be fine if we added a few more rules.

harpo
4 Jul 2015, 11:02pm
I apologize for not being able to help you mudkip was busy with irl stuff but you are correct in alot of ways to keep this community running we need to have an admin team that tries their best at their job but real life can bog you down so Im hoping you can wait until this is figured out.

Fishey
4 Jul 2015, 11:13pm
Idk who would help mudkip tbh, guys a l0s3r

And people in the server do not understand that I only need to give them 1 warning shot. I hate when they cry with their pretties complaint as soon as the round ends lol

Toyz
4 Jul 2015, 11:18pm
Idk who would help mudkip tbh, guys a l0s3r

And people in the server do not understand that I only need to give them 1 warning shot. I hate when they cry with their pretties complaint as soon as the round ends lol

Best part about this is: they argue about it when they get warning shot o.o

Nuclear Onion
5 Jul 2015, 11:35am
There's a really excellent guide (IMO) made by Unnamed Newbie here, (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076) posted here (http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60516). Maybe we can find a way to get everyone on the same page in terms of what exactly are the rules/what is implied/what exactly is what. Honestly, the little kids complaining about getting warning shot/'freekilled' seems really difficult to stop since that's really their nature; to complain about literally nothing. Can I get more details on what needs to be discussed in terms of rules that need to be a bit more underlined? I'm still somewhat not sure what exactly is the problem and what isn't. Will be revamping !rules if this continues (probably will) to be an issue.

Also sorry for the full on tilt, got a bit emotional over the serious video games last night.

Mudkip™
5 Jul 2015, 12:35pm
There's a really excellent guide (IMO) made by Unnamed Newbie here, (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076) posted here (http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60516). Maybe we can find a way to get everyone on the same page in terms of what exactly are the rules/what is implied/what exactly is what. Honestly, the little kids complaining about getting warning shot/'freekilled' seems really difficult to stop since that's really their nature; to complain about literally nothing. Can I get more details on what needs to be discussed in terms of rules that need to be a bit more underlined? I'm still somewhat not sure what exactly is the problem and what isn't. Will be revamping !rules if this continues (probably will) to be an issue.

Also sorry for the full on tilt, got a bit emotional over the serious video games last night.

While you right about it being impossible to stop kids from complaining about being freekilled it can be lowered, because they don't know the rules. Currently if you use the !rules command in the server, there is no information about KoS areas, when to give warning shots, when warning shots are necessary compared to just killing somebody.

While newbie's FAQ is nice, it still fails to include anything mentioning KoS areas, and all the information on primaries and secondaries.

Nowhere in the rules does it currently say you can't be in armory. If you're going specifically off the rules listed, a T can literally be sitting in armory without any weapons and if he died it would be a freekill.

There also needs to be more of an agreement between which catwalks are KoS. It is very largely map specific, however there are some catwalks that are really foggy on if they are considered KoS. Generally it is assumed if a catwalk leads to armory then terrorists will be killed if they go on it, however some maps have catwalks that lead to something that leads to armory. It's all confusing, and it's another thing that could really use clarification.

List of things I can think of immediately -

- Baiting - is it a CT being near a T where the orders are given? or is it like in CSS where it's only if a CT runs into a T that is currently knifing?

- Catwalks - which ones are KoS and which ones aren't?

- KoS areas - Everybody knows armory and vents are KoS but it doesn't say anywhere in the rules

- Teleporters - Also not mentioned anywhere. KoS most of the time? Unless in cases like on Cloud. I don't see this as a big problem at all right now but it's not mentioned in the rules and it is KoS

- Primaries and secondaries - There needs to be something saying primaries are going to get you killed and secondaries will be asked to be dropped, also stated nowhere

- Map specific areas with varying rules - this can't really be put in the rules however they should be discussed

It's impossible to completely eliminate all of the made up rules everybody has been telling people the last few years but restructuring everything will really crack down on it. Hope this helps.

Lupin
5 Jul 2015, 02:01pm
Any chance of making !rules send you to a forum sticky of the rules rather than a side popup or w/e? I'm sure we can make an "advanced" pb rule list without making it confusing for the younger audience.

Supa
5 Jul 2015, 02:24pm
I know in some servers you have to "accept" the rules before you can join a side. While most people will click whatever you need to click to skip through it, at least it gives that person the opportunity to read the rules and them clicking "yes" acknowledges that they understand and will follow said rules.

Wooper
5 Jul 2015, 02:38pm
i was just thinking to myself the other day that it turns out.. there ISNT a rule in society telling me not to run around in my house naked rubbing peanut butter around my crotch area while giving my nipples little pinches with one of those trex head clampers. but i didnt do it cuz im not a fucking dickhead.

DoubleSb
5 Jul 2015, 02:43pm
i was just thinking to myself the other day that it turns out.. there ISNT a rule in society telling me not to run around in my house naked rubbing peanut butter around my crotch area while giving my nipples little pinches with one of those trex head clampers. but i didnt do it cuz im not a fucking dickhead.

can we keep this semi serious; i get what you're trying to say, but this is a videogame mod there has to be clear and defined rules so people can understand it.

BlackWhite
5 Jul 2015, 02:53pm
The Great wall of text incomming.....


Problem with warning shots. For example, people might warning shot in the leg, body with m4/pistol or even awp. Usually regulars know that awp shot for warning shot is too harsh but some thinks it's fine before they are not listening the rules (although some people just awp shot when a t just moved a muscle). I had once people tell me it's still warning shot with awp because they haven't kill a T yet (awp shot to body deal between 60-80 so it's instant death for a T who fell on ground). Maybe we should clarify in the rules where should we shoot at and with what?

Detour and delays. Some people delay and too far out of the ordered area were kos instantly. This also causing some children/players complaing about the warning shots.

KOS Area should be in the !rules or we need a command to bring up motd. Some people thinks that roof is auto kos even though it's not connected to vent or it's not catwalk. There were couple of time people just shoot a line on the ground and give kos order for those who passed the line.

Primary is auto kos and secondary require warning shot unless the T who has it shot someone. I felt that it's unfair for those other T who didn't rebel but picked up the primary after the rebel die next to them got instant kos. Sometime i see CTs shooting/spray/awp inside the iso because there is one person has a primary or a pistol and claim that it's crossfire. We should make it clear for it, unless it felt in the common sense rules. (I don't see much common sense in pb te be honest)

Vents breaking, some people were killed for breaking a vent or knifing it. Can we clarify for this one too?

Wooper
5 Jul 2015, 02:58pm
Just because I exaggerated doesn't mean it wasn't relevant to the issue. There's just a list of universal rules for all game modes which people follow because otherwise the game mode falls apart and loses all direction. Like if we add certain obvious things to the rules, then where do we stop. Do we have a forum thread where we just have people post rules to add. Do we just keep adding shit to the rules until every single variable is done with or do we just have people use some god damn common sense. I dunno man.

Mad Dogg
5 Jul 2015, 03:28pm
The Great wall of text incomming.....


Problem with warning shots. For example, people might warning shot in the leg, body with m4/pistol or even awp. Usually regulars know that awp shot for warning shot is too harsh but some thinks it's fine before they are not listening the rules (although some people just awp shot when a t just moved a muscle). I had once people tell me it's still warning shot with awp because they haven't kill a T yet (awp shot to body deal between 60-80 so it's instant death for a T who fell on ground). Maybe we should clarify in the rules where should we shoot at and with what?

Detour and delays. Some people delay and too far out of the ordered area were kos instantly. This also causing some children/players complaing about the warning shots.

KOS Area should be in the !rules or we need a command to bring up motd. Some people thinks that roof is auto kos even though it's not connected to vent or it's not catwalk. There were couple of time people just shoot a line on the ground and give kos order for those who passed the line.

Primary is auto kos and secondary require warning shot unless the T who has it shot someone. I felt that it's unfair for those other T who didn't rebel but picked up the primary after the rebel die next to them got instant kos. Sometime i see CTs shooting/spray/awp inside the iso because there is one person has a primary or a pistol and claim that it's crossfire. We should make it clear for it, unless it felt in the common sense rules. (I don't see much common sense in pb te be honest)

Vents breaking, some people were killed for breaking a vent or knifing it. Can we clarify for this one too?


Never has knifing a vent been an automatic death sentence for a terrorist, tho CTs can order the Ts not to knife a vent and only after that kill the one disobeying.

Nuclear Onion
5 Jul 2015, 03:30pm
While you right about it being impossible to stop kids from complaining about being freekilled it can be lowered, because they don't know the rules. Currently if you use the !rules command in the server, there is no information about KoS areas, when to give warning shots, when warning shots are necessary compared to just killing somebody.

While newbie's FAQ is nice, it still fails to include anything mentioning KoS areas, and all the information on primaries and secondaries.
I was more so talking about his guide on steam he made, (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076) but the FAQ is also useful

Nowhere in the rules does it currently say you can't be in armory. If you're going specifically off the rules listed, a T can literally be sitting in armory without any weapons and if he died it would be a freekill.
Honestly, I wouldn't think I would actually need to write down anywhere that this is KOS, using common sense at this point states "well the T is in a room full of guns which is also the spawn of the police, I wonder if that is a KOS area?"

There also needs to be more of an agreement between which catwalks are KoS. It is very largely map specific, however there are some catwalks that are really foggy on if they are considered KoS. Generally it is assumed if a catwalk leads to armory then terrorists will be killed if they go on it, however some maps have catwalks that lead to something that leads to armory. It's all confusing, and it's another thing that could really use clarification.
*Referring to catwalks*
"These areas are usually crawling with CT's since it gives them a good vantage point of a majority of maps. A catwalk is defined as an area which directly leads into the armory.
-Top of cells are never considered catwalk unless they do attach to armory."
quoted from http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076

List of things I can think of immediately -

- Baiting - is it a CT being near a T where the orders are given? or is it like in CSS where it's only if a CT runs into a T that is currently knifing?
This has been a bit of an issue in my eyes, I'll admit that. It has been a gray area and I'll talk to others about it.

- Catwalks - which ones are KoS and which ones aren't?
Any that lead into armory, as stated here (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=406898076)

- KoS areas - Everybody knows armory and vents are KoS but it doesn't say anywhere in the rules
As stated in my last response

- Teleporters - Also not mentioned anywhere. KoS most of the time? Unless in cases like on Cloud. I don't see this as a big problem at all right now but it's not mentioned in the rules and it is KoS
Never changed, besides the TP that leads to everything on Clouds and anything of that sort, they are always KOS

- Primaries and secondaries - There needs to be something saying primaries are going to get you killed and secondaries will be asked to be dropped, also stated nowhere
Again, anyone who's played on any other JB server knows this is a rule for the gamemode.

- Map specific areas with varying rules - this can't really be put in the rules however they should be discussed
I'm not too familiar with some maps specific rules, there are exceptions, so I get if there is confusion there. I would suggest getting to know the map on the Prisoner side before jumping right into CT, that's what I've always did.

It's impossible to completely eliminate all of the made up rules everybody has been telling people the last few years but restructuring everything will really crack down on it. Hope this helps.
To me it seems all the things you've stated above (besides maybe baiting) is just implied rules on any and all JB servers,.

If someone simply does not know how to play the gamemode, then they should not play CT until they fully understand how to play Jailbreak. There are several places to get your average Jailbreak info, even in the guide I linked 5 times. Vouching to Newbie again here, who can probably explain JB specific rules better than even I.


I kinda like that guide as you can see...lol

BlackWhite
5 Jul 2015, 04:07pm
I like that guide too. But we kinda of need a summary version of it which simplific what can ct do, what shouldn't they do in rules

Mandeemoo007
5 Jul 2015, 05:20pm
I know in some servers you have to "accept" the rules before you can join a side. While most people will click whatever you need to click to skip through it, at least it gives that person the opportunity to read the rules and them clicking "yes" acknowledges that they understand and will follow said rules.

I like this idea!

Vy
7 Jul 2015, 11:56am
It's been this way for years now and I'm sick of all these implied rules that are written nowhere. Every time I connect to the server I or somebody else gets punished or threatened by admins for rules that are literally nowhere to be found and it's getting really old.I suggest reporting the admin without getting into an argument with him. It's probably better if he gets told off by a AO/CE or someone else with a higher rank.


If it's not an admin using !say to tell me to stop camping armory when everybody is still alive, I get called a freekiller and other random shit at least 50 times if I'm connected to the server for like 20 minutes, while breaking 0 rules that are listed.There's so many little kids on pb, that it's not surprising you get called a freekiller. I know a lot of people do it just to troll others.