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AppleShark
19 Jun 2008, 09:17am
This will be my first time putting together a PC and was hoping for some advice. The following parts are all subject to change and any suggestions are welcome.
Budget will be approximately €2,000.

CPU: Q6600/Q9450
Mobo: Asus Maximus Formula
HDD: 300GB Velociraptor
PSU: Corsair 750W
Cooling: Swiftech H20-220 compact watercooling kit
Case: Coolermaster Cosmos S
Monitor: Samsung SM226BW 22"
RAM: OCZ Reaper 2GB PC2-9200
Graphics Card: BFG 9800 GX2

Saxe
19 Jun 2008, 09:27am
I'd take a smaller raptor disk and put in large storage disk instead :)

And wait for the 280 GTX?

AppleShark
19 Jun 2008, 09:35am
Thanks for the input. Just to let you know, the 300Gb is more than enough for me, and if i needed more, i could just get a Spinpoint or something similar.
As far as the graphics card is concerned, I don't see how the GTX 280 can justify a 50% price increase for such a marginal boost in performance. I was thinking about 2 260's but I know nothing a bout SLi so I planned to steer clear of it. I'm also interested in cooling the graphics card by water. If anyone could show me a good, easy to install waterblock I'd be delighted.

Saxe
19 Jun 2008, 11:08am
Thanks for the input. Just to let you know, the 300Gb is more than enough for me, and if i needed more, i could just get a Spinpoint or something similar.

Good point.



As far as the graphics card is concerned, I don't see how the GTX 280 can justify a 50% price increase for such a marginal boost in performance. I was thinking about 2 260's but I know nothing a bout SLi so I planned to steer clear of it. I'm also interested in cooling the graphics card by water. If anyone could show me a good, easy to install waterblock I'd be delighted.

I'm not sure it's marginal. I can't seem to find any tests comparing the Gx2 with the 280 GTX, but I found one with the 9800 GTX and the 280 GTX, and it seems to be quite a big boost - up to 200% at the high resolutions. Especially considering the gx2 is nothing but two 8800 GT.

Also, if you don't need the computer asap you could always wait a month, and the price will probably be cut with 25%

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/06/14/complete-gtx280-scores-here

AppleShark
19 Jun 2008, 11:22am
Just to let you know, I'll be playing at 1680x1050, so it's not a huge resolution. Also, a comparison between the GX2 and GTX 280 can be found here (http://movies.custompc.co.uk/cpc/images/gtx280graphs.gif), and imo it's not all that impressive.

Dark Torcher
29 Jun 2008, 08:47pm
dont forget, the 9800 gx2 uses one pci-e slot with 2 high-perf gfx cards, if you have pci-e 2.0 it may not be much of a problem
then theres always microstuttering since sli technology has its downfalls, also some games may not good coding for multi-gfx card usage, same as some games run better on dual core rather then a quad core
the gtx 280 shines in high detail at high resolutions, beating a 9800gx2, now think of a gtx 280 sli, or even tri-sli, but then again, you only want to go to 2000 euro
I would just get a 74gb raptor and a 500gb or 750gb storage drive, but thats only since i deal with a lot of media files, im already at the 2 Tb mark
the raptor is a good drive as i own one myself, has a good response time and files load quick
since its your first build, its may be too much to go into watercooling, but you could be a fast learner; im still on air cooling since it works enough already, id only switch to water if i wanted to overclock higher, but again its ur first computer so you prob wont be doing that right at the start
if u have the extra money, just get a 9450, its 45nm (6600 is 65nm) better temps, but then again you're on water, and the 9450 has a larger cache, 12mb
just what i think an ideal comp would have...

AppleShark
29 Jun 2008, 08:57pm
Thanks for the advice. I was going to change this slightly but I felt that the thread had died - apparently not! I will now instead be using an ATi Radeon 4850/4870 as my graphics card. The card is great value and as Crossfire is relatively efficient in comparison to SLi, it will give better scope for upgrade in the future. As for the processor, I'll be going Q9550, assuming it incurs its rumoured price-drop to the level of the Q9450. I have also decided against water-cooling, as I feel that considering the money I am willing to spend, the difference in temperature will be negligible when compared to good air-cooling. I'll most likely use a Tuniq Tower or something similar. Finally, the proposed case is to be replaced by an Antec 1200.

*Edit*
Is it just me or does the 750 watt PSU seem like overkill? I wasn't quite sure what kind of power i would need but I think I overestimated.

Dark Torcher
29 Jun 2008, 09:18pm
i've never used ATi, so I cant say anything other then there new R770 cards are supposed to be super-powerful, and also you can crossfire cards of diff models, somethin you cant do with nvidia
and for the 9550, it has the same specs as the 9450, just an increased clock speed, it'd be easier to just buy a 9450 and overclock it to 3.0 if u got enough headroom
the tuniq tower is a good one, but i recommend looking at the thermalright ultra extreme-120, a 9450 on stock settings with a scythe kaze usually runs at 34C <-- plenty of space to overclock
the antec 1200 is a good case, but u better be ok with that much blue light, only the top 200mm leds can be turned off, but overall its a good case with good airflow, just remove the filters on the fans, they increase noise levels and also the dust clogs up the filter making less and less air flow in, dust coming in will just settle at the bottom of the case anyways, as long as u dust ur pc off every month or so, you're fine
just for a look, herse what im running

Antec 1200 + Antec Quattro 1000w
Intel Q9450 (TRUE + Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000), mushkin DDR2 1066 (2x2Gb)
EVGA 750i FTW, EVGA GTX 280 FTW, WD RaptorX 150Gb, Seagate 500Gb
Auzentech 7.1 Prelude Sound Card (Altec Lansing 2.1 Surround + Sony Noise Cancelling Headphones)
as you do not have a sound card listed dont worry about it, but if u want to have high clarity sound, u can get an audio card, but if u do, u have to get speakers/headphones of equal quality for the full benefit, good speakers will run around 200-300 while good headphones go around 100-150

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/KengoDrums/b5.jpg

as u can see, theres plenty of space inside, and also a slot behind the mobo to tuck in the cables, i was just lazy, i tucked in a couple cords then got tired
just to open another route for you since you're deciding for air-cooling, buy a lapping kit which will run at most 20, basically its just wet/dry sandpaper @ 400/800/1200/2000 grit
you can pick these up at any hardware store, all it does is provides a smooth, even surface after you sand both the heatsink and the cpu ihs, allowing for more contact which will aloow a greater thermal flow from cpu to heatsink, this can lower temps from 3-10 degrees celsius

Red
29 Jun 2008, 11:27pm
more ram

Dark Torcher
29 Jun 2008, 11:59pm
more RAM wouldnt help him unless he decided to go 64bit, since the max he will get with the ATi 4870 will be 3gb of RAM in 32bit, but 32bit is better for gaming as games were written for 32bit os (mainly windows)
anyways, hes doing good with quality over quantity
he has ddr2 1150, but his motherboard, asus maximus II formula can take up to ddr2 1200, im running with 4gb ddr2 1-66 and i dont even use 2gb of memory when playing games, heres a way to think of it: is it better to get 2 ferrari, or 3 mustangs?
the max he would do with a 32bit windows is 2x1gb and 2x512mb for 3gb dual channel RAM (make sure its low density) but mainly games take gfx card power and processor power

Red
30 Jun 2008, 09:03am
I go over 2gb when playing company of heroes.

Get 3gb at least.

More Ram

AppleShark
30 Jun 2008, 09:52am
I understand the RAM situation with a 32bit OS, but I believe Vista Ultimate allows you to install it as either 32 or 64 bit. What I don't know is whether this applies to the OEM version or not. Either way, if I were to go 32 bit, I would realistically have about 3.5Gi. of RAM maximum. If I were then to Crossfire, that would be reduced to 2.5Gi.

Daze
30 Jun 2008, 12:33pm
I go over 2gb when playing company of heroes.

Get 3gb at least.

More Ram

is it worth buying the game?

[got the RAM]

Dark Torcher
30 Jun 2008, 01:44pm
when you buy retail, vista comes with both the 32bit install and 64bit install
when you buy oem, it only comes as 32bit or 64bit
theres is no realistic way to get 3.5gb as u can only do 2x1Gb and 2x512Mb for 3Gb
to get 3.5Gb you would just have to buy 2x2Gb or 4x1Gb buy as the 32bit only has a max value of 4Gb, you would lose 512Mb by your gfx card and also the caches in the processor and hard drives, so it may be like 3470, etc.
you can go 64bit as you're buildin ur pc, and ATi and Asus support 64bit drivers, you would only be stuck if u bought a retail pc like HP or Dell that was 32bit, and then switchin to 64bit would prob mess things up, still mosts applications will run the same in 64bit more, some slower and some faster
realistically, you prob wont need to crossfire if u only play at 1680x1050 with the 4870, since it has enough power to get respectable fps at larger resolutions
if u want to just use 2Gb of RAM, you could go to DDR3 which has faster Mhz but costs way more, but u could call it future proofing (which is technically impossible)

AppleShark
30 Jun 2008, 03:10pm
I don't know much about 64 bit but I was under the impression that there were a lot of compatibility issues, with the majority of current day programs being designed for 32 bit. If this was not the case then i would have no problem running 64 bit

Widow
30 Jun 2008, 06:26pm
If I were then to Crossfire, that would be reduced to 2.5Gi.

Waahhh Crossfire gets rid of 1GB of ram lol ????????

Alright u want a 2x2GB set of RAM (Its dirt cheap and even tho u lose 500mbs) you WILL notice a diff.

Dont go for a GX2. Also get the Q6700 its much eaiser to reach a higher clock due to 10x multiplier.

U have a crossfire mobo so get 2 x 4870 or 4870X2 or 2 x 4850 either way this should rape GX2. Also Diamond have jsut released a Unlocked version of the 4870 so if ur going water cooling (I dont reccondmend as its a shitty cheap ass all in one kit) or After market heatsink you get OC the shit outa it.

GET AIR COOLING !!! A OCZ Vendetta 2 will beat that pile of crap prebuilt hands down especially on a quad core like urs and it costs &#163;25 lol.

Dont get a velociraptor. A Samsung Spinpoint F1 640mb or 1TB (Not the 750 or 500 as they use older 3 part platters) are faster and half the price for 3x the storage. Get one and be happy (i have the 750GB and its by no means slow just a couple of &#37; slower than other 2.

Case is a solid choice but if ur getting super high end (u are) id get a lian-li armoursuit its tonk and cools like a bitch and its top quality. But ihave a Xaser VI which does the prior 2.

Heed my advice i did ALOT of research and these are altered mistakes of mine aswell.

ALSO USE UR OLD COPY OF XP-32 bit if not go vista 64-bit

H2O
2 Jul 2008, 12:00pm
This will be my first time putting together a PC and was hoping for some advice. The following parts are all subject to change and any suggestions are welcome.
Budget will be approximately €2,000.

CPU: Q6600/Q9450
Mobo: Asus Maximus Formula
HDD: 300GB Velociraptor
PSU: Corsair 750W
Cooling: Swiftech H20-220 compact watercooling kit
Case: Coolermaster Cosmos S
Monitor: Samsung SM226BW 22"
RAM: OCZ Reaper 2GB PC2-9200
Graphics Card: BFG 9800 GX2

A) More Ram
2) What's the HD speed?
C) Where's my FSB at?
4) Killer graphics card, outta be a fortune for this thing though.

AppleShark
2 Jul 2008, 12:12pm
A) Did you read anything other than the 1st post?
2) If you don' know the speed of a Raptor drive, I don't know why you are giving me "advice".
C) Wtf does that have to do with anything?
4) Once again, this has been changed since my original post

Dark Torcher
2 Jul 2008, 08:11pm
ur pc build will work, as the max you will reach if 1680x1050 with a 22", even though i recommend 24" because of the 1920x1200 resolution which will allow full-screen bluray viewing
and also if u want a larger multiplier on ur processor, u could just get the EVGA 750i FTW motherboard (but its Nforce) which has an unlocked multiplier on the cpu and costs only around 110
heres something i would build with €2000 and using an ATi platform

Case: Antec P182 (€95) looks stylish and can be used in an office, does not have the standing-out look for the Antec 1200, but still has decent cooling, but they both cost nearly the same
PSU: OCZ ModXStream 780w (€100) has 4 12v rails with 80&#37;< efficiency
Mobo: Asus Maximus II Formula (€170) good choice overall
CPU: Q9450 (€210) may has 8x multi, but it can reach higher clocks with lower temps
CPU Cooling: TRUE w/ Scythe Ultra-Kaze 2000 (€60)
RAM: OCZ Flex DDR2 1200, 4x1Gb (€125) good if u plan on wc later, which u r interested in, since u spendin 2000 already, and have high perf parts, all the parts have to be balanced, with a fast cpu, comes fast ram, with other fast parts, then an excellent cooler for them, and as u prob wont to have a quiet pc, i do recommend wc
HDD: anything with 7200 rpm and above

this is your PC, you do not want to get buyer's remorse, if you feel like some certain part is something you would want to have in the PC, get it, since you wont like it when you arent able to run a game, etc just because you're missing those few extra MHz or GB's
my pc cost €1500 and its enough to run any old game and new games, so im okay
its something like ur first car, except now u have the money to choose what you want, not want ur parents think u want, so take ur time and dont rush into anything

Leeder
17 Jul 2008, 05:26am
That's a nice budget o.O

If your mobo wasn't so tiny, you could buy this like I did :]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106069 - CPU Fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106069)

I found a random review about it! :thumbup1:

The reason it blows a good amount of air on the memory is because it is literally on top of my left ram slot so I had to slip in the ram chip before installing. It also covers up a good chunk of my mobo so much so I even had a bit of trouble slipping in my PSU but that was mostly because of my case. Overall I would recommend it as a heatsink and a weapon.

Dark Torcher
22 Jul 2008, 01:37am
so Apple, did you build it yet?