Should MG be changed?

[Octa]

The issue with the server at the moment IMO is that we have a few groups of people that play for different reasons. First you have a group of people that play for the multigame and dm maps, then you have the people that play for the course maps and a minority that play both.

If we're playing a multigame map (like swag) we'll get a load of people joining to play that and the population will start to build up, but then as soon as a course map gets voted for a lot of them will leave because they don't like course maps. Same thing happens if we're playing a course map, the population will build up, then a multigame/dm map gets voted for and everyone leaves again. So we get stuck in this cycle because we have a large variety of maps but the majority of people only play for one particular type of map.

If we're going to try to grow the population of the server we really need to just focus on one of those groups because otherwise neither will have a reason to keep playing.

I was wondering if others share this opinion and, if so, would they want it to me Multigames or course focused. Anyone's input is welcome. I'll also be talking to bread/prez about it, but they are welcome to also post here.

[heartless]

How long will people stay interested in a server that only has course maps? I don't see that working out unless there would be some incentive to keep playing other than getting a top time. Liam has a point, but I don't think cutting out multigames or course maps is the solution.

[Octa]

How long will people stay interested in a server that only has course maps? I don't see that working out unless there would be some incentive to keep playing other than getting a top time. Liam has a point, but I don't think cutting out multigames or course maps is the solution.

I in no way intend to cut out all of either kind of map, I suppose I should have stated that. However, it is possible to have more of one kind of map than the other, which, I believe at the moment, we have quite a bit more multigames maps than anything else.

Personally, I would rather keep the server the way it is(Or i suppose balance it out). But I just wanted to see where everyone stood.

[Strawberry]

I think it should be a mix of both, because course is genious to try filling the server. mainly for me. i can enjoy being alone for an hou untill people come on trying to beat course maps, knowing not everyone is watching me fail miserably. because playing swag multi is boring as f with 5 people..

thats just my opinion though

[phantom153]

the only problem is that since course maps are harder for your average new player who might not stick around to try and beat it because hey are not invested in the server this would cause the population to drop. maybe provide some form of reward/incentive for beating the course maps. maybe add achievements that way you dont have to give anything that would have an actual effect on the way the server runs but would still give people a sense of satisfaction and something to work towards.

[heartless]

I in no way intend to cut out all of either kind of map, I suppose I should have stated that. However, it is possible to have more of one kind of map than the other, which, I believe at the moment, we have quite a bit more multigames maps than anything else.

Personally, I would rather keep the server the way it is(Or i suppose balance it out). But I just wanted to see where everyone stood.Yeah I appreciate that MG is being looked into, it's my favorite server by far. I don't think the problem lies in the maps that we currently have. If anything it could be the lack of maps - which is actively being worked on now it seems with the suggestions and porting going on.

Personally I would look at other options to populate the server, like a member of the month system where one of the main factors is server activity. From my experience there's usually a group of people online who would be willing to play - but hesitate to join because the server would be close to empty. A system where people can show they're willing to play (not sure if this is possible trough a steam group) without actually having to join the server by themselves would be a good addition.

[Octa]

Yeah I appreciate that MG is being looked into, it's my favorite server by far. I don't think the problem lies in the maps that we currently have. If anything it could be the lack of maps - which is actively being worked on now it seems with the suggestions and porting going on.

Personally I would look at other options to populate the server, like a member of the month system where one of the main factors is server activity. From my experience there's usually a group of people online who would be willing to play - but hesitate to join because the server would be close to empty. A system where people can show they're willing to play (not sure if this is possible trough a steam group) without actually having to join the server by themselves would be a good addition.

A member of the month was being worked on, but I havent heard anything about it since potatoes stepped down, as I think he was the one working on it.

As far as other motivation to join the server, I am still waiting on a store pluggin, no word as of yet when that will be ready.

I would have to ask that people who want to play MG try to populate the server themselves. If you dont want to sit in an empty server, invite your friends. Add Vick, he is supposed to do that stuff. I am going to try to start playing more myself also.

I'll look into the possibility of having another big event also, but I don't believe that will help things much.

Once again, I made this thread to see if Liams post was an opinion shared by a lot of people. I am trying to find ways to steady out the population. Right now, I'm banking a lot on the store pluggin, but it seems to be at a bit of a standstill (not trying to point fingers).

Edit:


the only problem is that since course maps are harder for your average new player who might not stick around to try and beat it because hey are not invested in the server this would cause the population to drop. maybe provide some form of reward/incentive for beating the course maps. maybe add achievements that way you dont have to give anything that would have an actual effect on the way the server runs but would still give people a sense of satisfaction and something to work towards.

I like the direction that you're going, but I'm not sure what the result would be. I suppose we could give the people in number 1 slots some kind of tag or something. Once the store is out, I'm sure something like this could be implemented, but I'm not 100% sure what I would like to do about it. Of course, between the like 4 of us running the server, I'm sure we could figure something out.

[phantom153]

maybe link the achivements to titles. so if u say beat a course map u get the achievement on the right course and a title to go with it beat 5 course maps get the achievement course master and the title course master. idk just an idea didnt know if u were doing a shop or not but if u are maybe give out some of the currency for beating the course map the more difficult the map the more u get.

[Mandeemoo007]

maybe link the achivements to titles. so if u say beat a course map u get the achievement on the right course and a title to go with it beat 5 course maps get the achievement course master and the title course master. idk just an idea didnt know if u were doing a shop or not but if u are maybe give out some of the currency for beating the course map the more difficult the map the more u get.

I like this idea. And if we make MG one side or the other, then we would loose a lot of population for either. And if we did change the map, what would we do about maps like Ski Mountain and Smee Tower, which kills and populates the server?

[LoneWolf]

Personally,I feel that MG should be multigames.As the server has been dead for a while, I seen an increase of players when we are playing maps such as ski, or something. I feel that course maps kill the server as half of them are broken.

[SilentGuns]

Course maps are cancer

This poll is as good as asking a person if they like some ice cream or if they are someone who likes to get ass-fucked several times a day instead.



I personally always enjoyed multigames ( nice and relaxing ). The current system is ok, it will keep everyone at least semi-happy.

[Black Rain]

I personally favor MG over course maps. I have seen times where we do get the server populated with actual multigames maps and when the server switches to a course map, some people start leaving and others will beg for an rtv. I don't mind course maps but if it becomes more course orientated then I'd just end up sticking to PB and ZE over the MG server. I think it's that a lot of people prefer to do team deathmatch style modes over playing a course map where the only purpose is to pass the obstacles only to make it to the end.

What I'm saying is that I think the purpose of multigames is that you're being able to play maps where you have various game modes to go against opponents and enjoy killing each other rather than doing a map where you just play solo and run around trying to survive traps. Also, I never really considered course to be the actual definition of multigames - it's always seen as it's own game mode imo.. kinda like how kz is

[Darnias]

Split map votes to Courses and Multigames and then actual maps.

[Nuclear Onion]

Am I the only one who sucks at courses but still has fun playing them?

[R3TROATTACK]

While I personally join MG to play courses now days I don't think that changing it to be course orientated or multigames orientated is a good idea. A balance of the two is probably the best way to go about it because i know i'm not the only one who prefers to play courses.

Also all arguments that say courses kill the server are invalid because only the bad course maps or bad multigames map end up killing the server, even if there is a drop off on certain course maps, course players(like myself) join the server and help repopulate it.

[Liam Brown]

While I personally join MG to play courses now days I don't think that changing it to be course orientated or multigames orientated is a good idea. A balance of the two is probably the best way to go about it because i know i'm not the only one who prefers to play courses.


I would also like there to be an even mix of maps but the problem is that there isn't enough people that enjoy playing both. The way the MG server is atm just isn't working, if it was then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Bread]

Having all course maps would require having an advanced ranking system and timer, can't see it working out at all otherwise.

Going with all multigame and combat maps would probably be our best bet since while the population is split, more people do seem to favor the multigame and combat maps (aaand CSGO was made primarily for combat playing), just my opinion though.

And as Octa said, a lot should be determined once the store plugin gets thrown on.

[Punky]

Split map votes to Courses and Multigames and then actual maps.

Like it was back in css: we could first choose if classic ol' ze, modern/bossfight, and then choose the map from the category.
Would be great to have it here aswell.

[Liam Brown]

Is there any update on this?

Because we had a full server tonight for a little bit, with mostly new players as well. We were playing a few multigame maps and you could tell everyone was really enjoying themselves, then a course map gets voted for (the map was bankrobbery, and I guess they voted for it because of the misleading name) and most people leave, so it goes from a full server (26 players) to 10 players in less than 2 minutes, with a lot of people saying before they left that they didn't like course maps. Then even when we rtv'd it the server population never recovered.

[Octa]

Ill do some looking and asking around and see what I can come up with

[Wawa]

Is there any update on this?

Because we had a full server tonight for a little bit, with mostly new players as well. We were playing a few multigame maps and you could tell everyone was really enjoying themselves, then a course map gets voted for (the map was bankrobbery, and I guess they voted for it because of the misleading name) and most people leave, so it goes from a full server (26 players) to 10 players in less than 2 minutes, with a lot of people saying before they left that they didn't like course maps. Then even when we rtv'd it the server population never recovered.

I witnessed this happen. It was the first time I've ever seen the MG server full for a good 30-60 minutes. It started on awp_submarine, then next map was football, that was rtved to swag, then it was bankrobbery. Half the server left within seconds once ppl realized it was a course map.

Honestly, I don't see the server EVER being full on course maps. Multigame maps, on the other hand, are bringing in the population. If popularity is a priority for the MG server, course maps are only going to hinder any progress. Plus our hardcore course map population pretty much died after CS:S MG died (Hilner, Goldeneye, etc.).

I say lets cut our losses with this one. If removing course maps isn't the answer, then perhaps we can possibly remove them from randomly showing up on the map voting?

[Octa]

Im looking at possibly having a vote before the map vote to decide if the server wants to play a course map or a minigames map. If it's not possible or is no ones wants that for whatever reason, I'll talk to Bread about perhaps removing/cutting back on course maps

[Drox]

Yeah I was on tonight and a course map killed the server, which was sad because it seemed everyone was having fun.

[Wawa]

Im looking at possibly having a vote before the map vote to decide if the server wants to play a course map or a minigames map. If it's not possible or is no ones wants that for whatever reason, I'll talk to Bread about perhaps removing/cutting back on course maps

I like that idea. On top of that, make it so a high percentage of the vote is required in order to change the map to course. This will ensure course maps will still be played by the hardcore players and not when the server is full and only some people want to play courses.

[Whimsy]

So the plan is to get rid of courses to fix the population problem? That is a terrible idea mainly because having a population in the first place is what makes people join. If the Server has nobody on it then people are less likely to join, and who wants to be the first in a multigame map...you wouldn't have anything to do. Courses are something you don't need population to play. I find myself being the only one on a course map and most of the time people join. But who would join to 1v1 in multigames, that shit is boring without population. I doubt just Mg maps will boost the average population.

I mean look at pb..that server fills up with randoms simply because there already was a decent player base..If 4 people get on to hang out it eventually fills up. I feel like the only way to get new Mg players is to organize events and fill it 3/4 of the way ourselves in order to make new people join.

[R3TROATTACK]

So the plan is to get rid of courses to fix the population problem? That is a terrible idea mainly because having a population in the first place is what makes people join. If the Server has nobody on it then people are less likely to join, and who wants to be the first in a multigame map...you wouldn't have anything to do. Courses are something you don't need population to play. I find myself being the only one on a course map and most of the time people join. But who would join to 1v1 in multigames, that shit is boring without population. I doubt just Mg maps will boost the average population.

I mean look at pb..that server fills up with randoms simply because there already was a decent player base..If 4 people get on to hang out it eventually fills up. I feel like the only way to get new Mg players is to organize events and fill it 3/4 of the way ourselves in order to make new people join.

I know what you mean whimsy but I feel like at this point it would be best to either drastically down scale/completely remove course or do that vote thing like Octa said if it is possible. If we end up going down the route of removing course I want a course server :(

[ExRev]

Get rid of courses, replace them with escape pedo bear.

[Wawa]

So the plan is to get rid of courses to fix the population problem? That is a terrible idea mainly because having a population in the first place is what makes people join. If the Server has nobody on it then people are less likely to join, and who wants to be the first in a multigame map...you wouldn't have anything to do. Courses are something you don't need population to play. I find myself being the only one on a course map and most of the time people join. But who would join to 1v1 in multigames, that shit is boring without population. I doubt just Mg maps will boost the average population.

You make a good point. So, I think it would be best then if there was a vote for course/multigames before map voting in order to avoid having to remove course maps altogether.

Course maps = Awesome for a few
Multigame maps = Awesome for many

[Darnias]

Enable multigames category vote for 8+ players on server. DONE.

[Console]

Well, I had no idea how to bhop. I have never finished a course map. However, I still want to keep the courses in the rotation because they motivated me to keep challenging. Multigames are fantastic, especially those made my Paul :D. So in my opinion, we should keep both multigames and course maps.

[Banana Joe]

Get rid of courses, replace them with escape pedo bear.

Yeah, let's all run away from you.

[Bdcoll]

Strip courses, keep minigames only.

Yes, nobody wants to be the one person to join a minigames map and get it started, but that can be solved by having the community get involved and populate it,at specific times, on specific days, so that eventually its self populating like ZE, or even PB right now.

Keeping courses on there, just so 2-3 people can go in, play around, and then leave when a minigames map hits is only going to serve to worsen the problem.

Maybe in the future a course only server, but for now, its unsustainable.

[phantom153]

I like that idea. On top of that, make it so a high percentage of the vote is required in order to change the map to course. This will ensure course maps will still be played by the hardcore players and not when the server is full and only some people want to play courses.

^ this make the pre vote to change from multigame to course require a super majority of the players to vote on it for it to open up the course maps for voting.

[Mandeemoo007]

Keep both but I still want my Prof. Oak's multigames! D:

[Console]

Yeah, keep both is a good idea. But we need more multigames and easier courses for noobs like me :D

[R3TROATTACK]

Yeah, keep both is a good idea. But we need more multigames and easier courses for noobs like me :D

But easy courses are no fun!

[Nuclear Onion]

I remember when minigames were fun mini maps like piratewars and that one where you escape some rolling boulders instead of shit multigame maps
have u always been this shitty?

plus I haven't seen u play on the server once, either actually give useful input or don't say anything at all lmao

[Frosty]

I remember when minigames were fun mini maps like piratewars and that one where you escape some rolling boulders instead of shit multigame maps

[Punky]

Y'all whining, but even if it gets changed, many of you will do nothing to get it popular, waiting for a damn miracle like ZE had.

[ExRev]

Y'all whining, but even if it gets changed, many of you will do nothing to get it popular, waiting for a damn miracle like ZE had.

YOU DON'T KNOW ME! I WILL FUCKING SIT ON MY ASS AND PLAY PS4 WHILE I WAIT.

[ShoieP]

Im looking at possibly having a vote before the map vote to decide if the server wants to play a course map or a minigames map. If it's not possible or is no ones wants that for whatever reason, I'll talk to Bread about perhaps removing/cutting back on course maps


I like that idea. On top of that, make it so a high percentage of the vote is required in order to change the map to course. This will ensure course maps will still be played by the hardcore players and not when the server is full and only some people want to play courses.
If MG is going to get changed, I feel like this is the best way to go.

Have it so the player can decide to vote between a multigames map or a course map

[sphinxxxy]

Im looking at possibly having a vote before the map vote to decide if the server wants to play a course map or a minigames map. If it's not possible or is no ones wants that for whatever reason, I'll talk to Bread about perhaps removing/cutting back on course maps


I like that idea. On top of that, make it so a high percentage of the vote is required in order to change the map to course. This will ensure course maps will still be played by the hardcore players and not when the server is full and only some people want to play courses.

As someone who goes on the server pretty frequently, I definitely agree with this. I'm a real noob so course maps are just a really big downer for me, so I legitimately leave the moment they announce that the next map is a course map. However, just for the various reasons posted above me, we should at least keep some course maps on rotation, just have a vote done to play them. But really, course maps killlllllllll the population so, I really think some kind of change should be done :/

[phantom153]

would it be possible to offer raffle tickets/raffle points for beating a course map so that it gives people the incentive to stay and try

[Mandeemoo007]

yeah like 50-100 raffle tickets if you do since some course maps are extremely hard and others are too easy( which are none ofg them in my opinion) but that is a great idea

[Wawa]

Sure, why don't we just save some time and just send the CS:GO skins to Hilner right now?

[R3TROATTACK]

would it be possible to offer raffle tickets/raffle points for beating a course map so that it gives people the incentive to stay and try

I really like this suggestion but it would have to be the first time u beat the map u get a set number of points/tickets and then after that if u wanted more you have to break top times or something because it is very easy for someone half decent at courses to beat maps if they go slow


As someone who goes on the server pretty frequently, I definitely agree with this. I'm a real noob so course maps are just a really big downer for me, so I legitimately leave the moment they announce that the next map is a course map. However, just for the various reasons posted above me, we should at least keep some course maps on rotation, just have a vote done to play them. But really, course maps killlllllllll the population so, I really think some kind of change should be done :/

i use to be like you then I played a course and beat it then found out they are fun, but oh well everyone has their own opinion

[Octa]

An update on this:

I have been unable to find a way to do make a vote for courses as of yet, so for now, I will most likely be romoving a lot of the courses from rotation unless a better solution presents itself. I'll give myself until the end of the weekend to figure something out, and then will be disabling some of the maps (unless you guys want it done sooner)

The maps should still be accessible by admins, so if there is an admin on and the server votes to play course maps, go for it

[Paul]

I've never used this plugin before, always used MapChooser Extneded but UMC allows you to configure map groups/pools.

https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=134190

The way I understand it is that players will vote on the map group they want to play so, "Courses" "Multigames" etc, although I would only have two groups, these being courses and all other maps. They then get a list of maps from that pool to choose from.

Setting mp_timelimit to 25 on multigame maps using map configs wouldn't go a miss either on the server IMO.

[Prez]

Setting mp_timelimit to 25 on multigame maps using map configs wouldn't go a miss either on the server IMO.

Yeah this, would be a great add

[Octa]

After looking at the plugin paul posted (thank you, btw) plugin, I was ready to install it, but upon becoming rather confused at the instructions on how to make the groups, I went back and read that part of the plugin.

It comes close to doing what we want, but it's not quite it. Basically, I can separate the maps into groups, and then say how many of each group I want to appear in the vote. That's the extent of the plugin as far as I can tell. I read it a few times just to make sure, and if anyone wants to point out something I missed, please do. But it doesn't appear to be what we want, and while it could help to an extent, I feel that the plugin isn't worth installing for a single feature that isn't even what we want it to be :C

I'm still looking, but results for searching for this type of thing usually come up with stupid thread that are irrelevant to what I want.

Liam has, once again, offered to try to make a plugin should I (or anyone else who wants to help) fail to find one, but I don't want to make too much work for the poor guy. Hopefully I can find something. If not, I'll try to find a temporary solution while Liam works on a long term one