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View Full Version : Change grenade physics back to how it used to be.



Turtlefiish
24 Jan 2015, 12:29pm
Quite simple really, thread title. Grenades are a lot more boring nowadays, pretty much unanimous agreement on that.

Can't say the players on the server don't want it since I've done around 6-7 votes on it; each being around 70%+ (never gone below 70% yes) with preventions on 1-spamming, half of the votes had "Yes" as the third option (1 was always blank).

Punky
24 Jan 2015, 12:51pm
Bring back the old failnades! Can confirm the results of the vote

Agent_Wesker
24 Jan 2015, 01:41pm
+1

KnuckleChild87
24 Jan 2015, 10:13pm
lol failnades! gotta love em

mapper
25 Jan 2015, 01:43am
Honestly, I think we're fine as it is. The failnades do bring forward some hilarious situations from time to time, but right now it's pretty balanced.

BoM
25 Jan 2015, 02:17am
Should do a vote on here and get people to come on and vote ^_^

Bdcoll
25 Jan 2015, 05:29am
Personally I saw we keep them as it.

I like failnades. They make people think about what they are doing.

Or at least thats the theory. What really happens is noobs just throw them wildly into the horde and get people killed, and our server has an abundance of noobs who will do that. Keep them as is, until we at least get people learning how to play.

Punky
25 Jan 2015, 05:56am
until we at least get people learning how to play.

Do you really believe they will ever learn? D:

BlackWhite
25 Jan 2015, 06:46am
Do you really believe they will ever learn? D:

Some people will learn to do it slowly while other half throw the fail nade because of fun

struki
25 Jan 2015, 07:54am
I say we bring them back.

There are gonna be fail nades,sure,but it adds a lot to the fun (especially when you knock back the zombies just right).

Turtlefiish
25 Jan 2015, 08:23am
Honestly, I think we're fine as it is. The failnades do bring forward some hilarious situations from time to time, but right now it's pretty balanced.

Genuinly isn't, quite a few maps (Blackmesa especially, basically anything with a low ceiling where the upwards knockback is negated) are stupidly easy with the current settings.

Plus for the zombies; a sudden, unavoidable "You're now slow for 20 seconds" bomb thrown at you really sucks.

nublife
25 Jan 2015, 08:35am
Some people will learn to do it slowly while other half throw the fail nade because of fun

its funny okay???

Malibu
25 Jan 2015, 08:36am
It's like gambling. You either boost your chances to win or you just fuck yourself and the rest of the team.
Fail nades have been a part of the family since so many years, why get rid of them now.
I say hell yeah.

Liam Brown
25 Jan 2015, 06:31pm
While I agree with bdcoll that with the amount of new players we have it could make it a lot harder for the humans to win. But I do think it would be interesting to give it a try, and see how people handle it.

No harm done if it doesn't work, just change it back.

KnuckleChild87
26 Jan 2015, 01:07am
I used to love being the zombie who got fail naded and I could spring my knuckly wrath on all the unsuspecting humans! It was also quite amusing when you'd see a zombie come flying at you and you have mere milliseconds to respond or die. I say bring back the good ole failnades

Pan32
26 Jan 2015, 01:58am
Im sure I pretty much explained this just shy of 23 times, but im gonna take a swing again:

The old nades does not work properly. Somehow, they way it pushes people sometimes makes no sense, ie you drop a nade right in front of a zombie (read Front) and the nade pushes the zombie towards you.

Taking in account of that unreliability of the old nades, I would rethink if you want it back or not.

Elemental
26 Jan 2015, 07:25am
Are there no alternatives, then?
As the old one was buggy and crappy and the current one makes the game too easy in alot of maps :(

Turtlefiish
26 Jan 2015, 08:51am
Im sure I pretty much explained this just shy of 23 times.

Sure, that's why nobody knew then? From the perspective of everyone on the server, grenades were working fine, then suddenly they're different with no explanation. What you just described happened in the old CSS server too, was usually a difference in ping.

Regardless, the current solution is terrible. Like I said, currently we have several maps that are simple cruises due to this (combined with the wrong setup, basically all the '08 maps which require block to be enabled for the gameplay to go 'smoothly') so we need to work on something.

BlackEagle
26 Jan 2015, 12:05pm
Based on what Pan stated (since he knows way more about this than anyone else) I gotta go with no. It's really not worth ruining the gameplay over a few "fail nades" when people can't even hold as it is right now. I haven't noticed a change in difficulty for either the zombies or humans since the server began.

Agent_Wesker
26 Jan 2015, 05:09pm
Since this is controlled via a simple cvar, I say we enable it on a per-map basis.

For example on ze_atix_panic nading the zombies wont send them to the helicopter every round.

Pan32
28 Jan 2015, 07:18am
Sure, that's why nobody knew then? From the perspective of everyone on the server, grenades were working fine, then suddenly they're different with no explanation. What you just described happened in the old CSS server too, was usually a difference in ping.

Regardless, the current solution is terrible. Like I said, currently we have several maps that are simple cruises due to this (combined with the wrong setup, basically all the '08 maps which require block to be enabled for the gameplay to go 'smoothly') so we need to work on something.

Unless you think I have exactly my whole life devoted to warn every single person that frequents the server, I think some things will cross unnoticed, so please, cut me some slack.
Regarding 08 maps needing block, I dont think so, simply because the fact that new people dont like it. As Enviolinator said and I think he is right at some length, "sg ze community wants to live in the past", which we cant afford if we are going to actually keep a steady population.
Back to nades, I really dont know to be honest. As many people said, even with the slightly easier nades people struggle to hold at all, reason why I put my doubts on the idea.

Turtlefiish
28 Jan 2015, 08:58am
Unless you think I have exactly my whole life devoted to warn every single person that frequents the server, I think some things will cross unnoticed, so please, cut me some slack.
Regarding 08 maps needing block, I dont think so, simply because the fact that new people dont like it.

Repeating that "New people don't like x" is silly, we don't know what they want unless we do a bazillion server votes. Anyway, on the old maps, I'm not arguing anything personal about them, just pure design factors.

Take ATIX_Helicopter. Currently when it's played, about 90% of players cram onto the first rooftop, meaning that usually about 30-ish players are up there; rendering every other place on the map entirely pointless and making the map a breeze for humans. With block enabled (like it is meant to be), 30 players simply can't fit up there - half of them won't even get on the helicopter in time due to cramming; so people are forced to spread about over the other rooftops and then we have a much more balanced map.

See the issue here? If we're going to have certain maps, we need to set our server up for them accordingly. Something we already do for the LOTR maps and a bunch of others that have the zombie teleported back to spawn, yes we could have the zombie spawn up front, but it ruins those maps as they're not designed for it.


As for the grenade issue, the maps are undoubtedly easier since the change. I've already shown that the players on the server want change too, how you can argue against one thing with "new players don't want", then dismiss something that players obviously do want is bizarre. If you want to keep that steady population and have it grow, you really need to keep the servers entertaining which (beyond any arguments about utility and easiness) the old grenades settings were.

Ultramarine
28 Jan 2015, 09:13am
Some people will learn to do it slowly while other half throw the fail nade because of fun

Well i know what half I belong in..

Agent_Wesker
28 Jan 2015, 04:20pm
Unless you think I have exactly my whole life devoted to warn every single person that frequents the server, I think some things will cross unnoticed, so please, cut me some slack.
Regarding 08 maps needing block, I dont think so, simply because the fact that new people dont like it. As Enviolinator said and I think he is right at some length, "sg ze community wants to live in the past", which we cant afford if we are going to actually keep a steady population.
Back to nades, I really dont know to be honest. As many people said, even with the slightly easier nades people struggle to hold at all, reason why I put my doubts on the idea.

Physics can actually make it easier if you have a little skill; if you nade zombies at an angle you can knock them all off a platform.

BlackEagle
28 Jan 2015, 10:15pm
Repeating that "New people don't like x" is silly, we don't know what they want unless we do a bazillion server votes. Anyway, on the old maps, I'm not arguing anything personal about them, just pure design factors.

Take ATIX_Helicopter. Currently when it's played, about 90% of players cram onto the first rooftop, meaning that usually about 30-ish players are up there; rendering every other place on the map entirely pointless and making the map a breeze for humans. With block enabled (like it is meant to be), 30 players simply can't fit up there - half of them won't even get on the helicopter in time due to cramming; so people are forced to spread about over the other rooftops and then we have a much more balanced map.

See the issue here? If we're going to have certain maps, we need to set our server up for them accordingly. Something we already do for the LOTR maps and a bunch of others that have the zombie teleported back to spawn, yes we could have the zombie spawn up front, but it ruins those maps as they're not designed for it.


As for the grenade issue, the maps are undoubtedly easier since the change. I've already shown that the players on the server want change too, how you can argue against one thing with "new players don't want", then dismiss something that players obviously do want is bizarre. If you want to keep that steady population and have it grow, you really need to keep the servers entertaining which (beyond any arguments about utility and easiness) the old grenades settings were.

The last thing we need to do is go back to our old CS:S server ways and make half the maps block and half the maps noblock. No maps need block. Block is irrelevant now and it just causes headaches. On that same ATIX Helicopter example I distinctly remember people getting crammed on a ladder trying to get to that rooftop and complaining and then blocking the helicopter entrance from anyone entering. Not to mention that even with block on everyone still tried to get to that same spot making the majority of the spots completely useless. Rarely did anyone actually try to build cades (which is ineffective in most cases now). All these things create so much more annoyance than having a few nostalgia moments from 5 years ago. When I first joined there was block and those were great times and I preferred it then but we need to move on from the idea that some maps need block and others don't because it killed the server off last time. Not only does it cause mass confusion but it divides the playerbase up on which maps need what settings and which ones don't.

We have one of the few popular ZE servers on CS:GO. If we want to maintain that population then we need to tread carefully so we don't lose the population again. We really need to focus on the current population and what they want and how they play. Block would not only be a nightmare to play with but to police as an admin. The server is already infiltrated with IQ's below 20.

As for the nades, if the physics aren't broken and it can be more predictable based on how the grenade is thrown then I am fine with the change. But I would rather not see a change if the physics aren't working correctly and we lose rounds because the game is glitched.

Turtlefiish
29 Jan 2015, 05:48am
Once again, some maps are designed for it. We already have a setting divide with zombie teleports, something that makes the map easier for people who are braindead. The distinction you're making between certain settings is pretty arbitrary.

However I made this thread to discuss the grenade issue and I've somehow sidetracked it.

Although adding block to certain maps will not kill the server, nor ever has it. The server died several times, the main killer being a CSS update which we never recovered from. Ask Jazz, Ultra or Wicked (basically any regular from back then, listed them since those are some of the few I know for certain still play) we spent 4 years keeping the server somewhat alive and know exactly the things that happened to kill it.

Z3r0 M4ni4c
29 Jan 2015, 06:50am
I played with normal nades and that gave a big knock back push that helped you escape from the zombies.
The slowdown of the Napalm nades are some sort the same thing that happens.
Im an old school player one of the first zombiemod players you can say from the netherlands.
I know how the nades worked back then and now.
The only difference is that you are slowed down instead of being knocked back.
Failnades always have and always been there... Only difference is how high zombies get knocked up.

for the Block - No block discussion.
Its better to have NO block instead of block.
A lot of arguments are already given.
You just have to be smart as a zombie =>
ATIX_Helicopter, just be smart and get on the truck go to the ladder next to the rooftop and jump on it. When humans are on helicopter go to next rooftop wait for them to come and try jump / Knife them inside the helicopter.
Then last rooftop do the same!

You just have to be smart in the zombie game and dont be dumb and follow a guy that keeps running to the same spot everytime.
Maby use someone as a decoy so you can get them from the back i don't know use your imagination and strategy

The only sad thing there is no-block is because you now cant get to the secret atix room in the map :( (or get on a lantarn, when your zombie and jump inside the helicopter earlier then humans to knife the shit out of them Mwuhahaha :( )

P.S. Just read other parts of the thread.
Stop living in the past and go with the flow of the future.
For me it was maby a adaption on the first napalm nades!
And i like it how it is now, people still failnade from time to time.

We all want to stay with old things we like and feel our self at ease with it.
But sometimes it better to change and accept it for the public you reach with it then to stay in the past and lose things...
Thats why ZE was dying everytime because we lived in the past not going with the flow

Jazz
30 Jan 2015, 02:28pm
The CSS server did not die due to block being added? We had block way before no-block(#1 days), and as soon as the no-block trend came around the server population decreased as time went on until the engine update put the nail in the coffin. Get it right. Enabling block on certain maps was a necessity at the time because they were un-playable with no-block.

As for the nades, if they are bugged like pan described it, then no. Also, I'd appreciate if the nade effect was decreased to like half so zombies don't go flying upwards, they got inside the base of sst several times due to noobs nading then ppl qq etc.

As for the block & no block, I'd pick block everytime(forces humans to work as team etc), but most maps have been designed to have noblock so we're forced to go with it. The best thing for us to do right now is to go with the flow, get a steady population. After a while we can look at specifics(if a map is too easy or too hard to beat) then perhaps change the map to run on block if thats what its supposed to do.

All in all, things are looking fine right now to be honest.