Steam Gamers Ban policy.

[Scottx125]

Steamgamers community is dying, and that much is true and we all know it. This is due to most players being eventualy perminantly banned for one reason or another which is perfectly fine. HOWEVER... I think that there should be a change in policy removing the "perminantly banned" status to a maximum of 1 year bans.

This is due to the fact that ignorant and selfish admins (you know who you are) are holding grudges against those who they have banned for simply having a disagreement with them or downright hating them. This is discraceful and goes against your job, being an admin is not a privilage, its a job. You are here to police the servers or forums with a neutral attitude to all, EVEN IF they break rules of which you then enforce to the letter no matter how much you personaly like or dislike anybody. (Please remember admins, you are only in authority because the community put you there).

In short something has to change, if it be a change in the ban policy or an admin re-orginisation on who will or will not be admin.

I here by ask any admins who view this page to refrain from voting, you have no say in this since this is a community vote, for those who are not in authority.

[BlackWhite]

Ban policy is just fine how they are

[Scottx125]

Ban policy is just fine how they are
Please vote and make sure if you disagree with something explain why.

[harro]

This thread is really dumb. People that are permanently banned can usually successfully appeal their bans in 1 year unless they did something really fucking stupid/are repeat retards. Also admining ain't a job bro, no one gets paid for it. This thread just sounds like a bad reason to rustle up some drama.

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55029
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54950
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54439
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54423
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54206
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54046

And that's just from the first 2 pages

[Scottx125]

Definition of a job is not being paid to do it, it is a role in a society/community of is fufilled by you or someone else. And if you look in the ban appeals with 1 year bans, people have appealed 3-4 times even after a years ban and yet they are still not being unbanned. (of cource there are people that repeatedly break the rules such as making multiple accounts to do crap, but people who come back after 1-2 years are having their appeals denied due to admin hate and intolerance which needs to stop).

P.S Btw if you have nothing useful to post in this thread then dont.

Example:
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54577 - He is being condemned for things he has done in the past to judge him on who he is now. Quote from XeNo
"Good fucking luck. You better write the most sympathetic story of your life if you expect to be unbanned. I mean tears need to be formed and creating a flowing river of anguish before we even consider making a thread in the AO section to discuss your unban. "
That language useage is also unacceptable, its not a joke. Some of these people sincerely want to be unbanned and acting in a childish way commenting that you best make an amazing 'Story' for admins to read is discraceful.

[harro]

Definition of a job is not being paid to do it, it is a role in a society/community of is fufilled by you or someone else. And if you look in the ban appeals with 1 year bans, people have appealed 3-4 times even after a years ban and yet they are still not being unbanned. (of cource there are people that repeatedly break the rules such as making multiple accounts to do crap, but people who come back after 1-2 years are having their appeals denied due to admin hate and intolerance which needs to stop).

P.S Btw if you have nothing useful to post in this thread then dont.

Bullshit alert. Examples please.

"http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54577[/url] - He is being condemned for things he has done in the past to judge him on who he is now. Quote from XeNo
"Good fucking luck. You better write the most sympathetic story of your life if you expect to be unbanned. I mean tears need to be formed and creating a flowing river of anguish before we even consider making a thread in the AO section to discuss your unban. "
That language useage is also unacceptable, its not a joke. Some of these people sincerely want to be unbanned and acting in a childish way commenting that you best make an amazing 'Story' for admins to read is discraceful."

Guy has six bans. You only need three to be permed. Which basically means he's already had more than one chance to not be permed. Don't really see how that is "intolerance and injustice(lol)", if he's had more chances than most members of the community gets. Also if you use examples instead of example, you need more than one.

Edit: He was also caught freekilling at several other communities which is why no one knew he changed.

[SilentGuns]

1) Ban system is fine .
2 Admins get their power from other admins.
3) If an admin is abusing their powers then you are free to get proof and file a complaint .
4) All permabans are reviewed by AO+ ( senior members of the staff ) . If they dislike someone then it is for good reason - being butthurt by someone is not a valid reason .

If one AO+ gives out a BS ban then the person can appeal and they can be unbanned ( if a majority agrees that the ban was not okay ) .

[Nasu]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/549/1307920884001.jpg

[Scottx125]

Bullshit alert. Examples please.

"http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54577[/url] - He is being condemned for things he has done in the past to judge him on who he is now. Quote from XeNo
"Good fucking luck. You better write the most sympathetic story of your life if you expect to be unbanned. I mean tears need to be formed and creating a flowing river of anguish before we even consider making a thread in the AO section to discuss your unban. "
That language useage is also unacceptable, its not a joke. Some of these people sincerely want to be unbanned and acting in a childish way commenting that you best make an amazing 'Story' for admins to read is discraceful."

Guy has six bans. You only need three to be permed. Which basically means he's already had more than one chance to not be permed. Don't really see how that is "intolerance and injustice(lol)", if he's had more chances than most members of the community gets. Also if you use examples instead of example, you need more than one.

Edit: He was also caught freekilling at several other communities which is why no one knew he changed, rofl.

And so apparently we go about judging people on how many bans they have? So what if someone comes back after 4 years and has 7 bans, what then? What if they have entirely changed and have become mature and sensible within communities? Yet you dont know that because they have not been able to come back since you've shunned him due to him having multiple bans 'Chances'.

BTW multiple bans are not chances, they are punishments. Chances are given when you forgive someone and do NOT give them a ban. And everyone deserves AT THE LEAST two chances. This is about moral judgement, not discriminative judgement.

[harro]

And so apparently we go about judging people on how many bans they have? So what if someone comes back after 4 years and has 7 bans, what then? What if they have entirely changed and have become mature and sensible within communities? Yet you dont know that because they have not been able to come back since you've shunned him due to him having multiple bans 'Chances'.

BTW multiple bans are not chances, they are punishments. Chances are given when you forgive someone and do NOT give them a ban. And everyone deserves AT THE LEAST two chances. This is about moral judgement, not discriminative judgement.

Lolwat, yeah multiple bans before perms are multiple chances, when the punishment is over, you are expected to have learned from your lesson. If you don't, then clearly there is something wrong and the punishment needs to extend.

"Yet you dont know that because they have not been able to come back since you've shunned him due to him having multiple bans 'Chances'"

Like I said, he was caught freekilling in multiple communities, so Idk what you're crying about again.

4 years =/= 8 months

Also most people that come back from perms usually come back with a "one more quick fuck up and you're back to being permed" situation so it's more like he had 4 chances.

[Harpr33t]

Sg is dying to lack of effort and refusal to adapt to new games. Not because trolls are permed.

[Octa]

Sg is dying to lack of effort and refusal to adapt to new games. Not because trolls are permed.

While what he said seems kind of harsh, I do agree with Harprette. SG needs to expand if it wants to survive, and so far almost every attempt at that has failed.

The csgo server seems to lack dedication by nearly anyone, and so far the NS server hasn't done anything to bring in more people.
Perhaps a BF4 server would help? But no matter what we did, we would need a good few people to be dedicated and help the server get started or we would just be wasting more money.

[SilentGuns]

Sg is dying to lack of effort and refusal to adapt to new games. Not because trolls are permed.


While what he said seems kind of harsh, I do agree with Harprette. SG needs to expand if it wants to survive, and so far almost every attempt at that has failed.

The csgo server seems to lack dedication by nearly anyone, and so far the NS server hasn't done anything to bring in more people.
Perhaps a BF4 server would help? But no matter what we did, we would need a good few people to be dedicated and help the server get started or we would just be wasting more money.



As xeno already mentioned in another thread, we are working on it . We have plenty of ideas and these ideas are being discussed.

[Octa]

As xeno already mentioned in another thread, we are working on it .

Hey, I'm not trying to badger you guys, I'm just stating that unbanning people is not what we need for the sake of the thread. :o

[Itch]

Having been involved in many meetings as a CA back in the day I can say that it takes more than 1 or 2 admins with a grudge to perm ban someone. And many perm bans have been overturned if the person has cleaned up their act and comes back with the right attitude.

It seems like (and I could be wrong) you aren't happy because a friend of yours fucked up and now can't play on the servers you want to play on.

When reviewing bans to make them perm or reviewing appeals the bigger picture is always taken into account. Sure bans on servers of other communities don't directly affect SG, but if a person appeals and has been out racking up bans elsewhere while they were banned from SG you can't expect that not to make people wonder about the maturity of a person. It definitely doesn't make us think they won't come back and continue to do the things that go them banned in the first place.

Yes, coming off of a ban is another chance to clean up your act. 3 major bans is generous. Much more lenient that most communities are. 6+ bans and how can you expect us to let someone keep causing problems. Part of why people stick around a community like SG is because we kick the trash out.

Also as far as mixing up the Admins. People become an admin because they have proven that they can be trusted. They can also receive strikes against them and have admin rights removed based on abuse or negative behavior as an admin. So a "Admin Shakeup" won't solve anything, it would just put people that haven't proven themselves in as admin and remove those who have proven themselves.

I'm against both changing the ban system & an admin shakeup.

[BoM]

This thread. Puhleeze.

As octa and silentfag said the big boys are handling it, not to mention the fact that your theory on the issue is completely wrong.....

Quick blame a group of people, then tell them not to post. Politics at its finest!

Most permed trolls are/were absolutely hated by the general community (atleast of their home server). So......yeah.

[Neptune]

Its hard to internet on phone, by that I meant to vote no.

But, yeah, we should expand seeing as half the css servers are dead most of the day or SG will just die out.

[Daze]

Steamgamers community is dying, and that much is true and we all know it. This is due to most players being eventualy perminantly banned for one reason or another which is perfectly fine.

Of course this is the reason why community populating is dying. It's got nothing to do with the fact that it's based on a game that is now over nine years old.

[High]

Hi I'm a fool who does not understand how this and nearly every other internet gaming community works, and i demand the rules be changed to my personal satisfaction regardless of the consequences and how arbitrary they seem.

Fix'd that for you.

[Banana Joe]

Oh god who made these vote options, I need to know
this is hilarious

also this thread is an abomination, so is your idea and last, but not least, who are you even? I have not seen you around, so I don't really think you have any sort of credibility to back up your "most unpleasant discovery regarding the highly corrupted SG staff" discovery.

[XeNo]

Definition of a job is not being paid to do it, it is a role in a society/community of is fufilled by you or someone else. And if you look in the ban appeals with 1 year bans, people have appealed 3-4 times even after a years ban and yet they are still not being unbanned. (of cource there are people that repeatedly break the rules such as making multiple accounts to do crap, but people who come back after 1-2 years are having their appeals denied due to admin hate and intolerance which needs to stop).
This is false and can be easily proven wrong. Pointless argument based on little to no facts.

Example:
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54577 - He is being condemned for things he has done in the past to judge him on who he is now. Quote from XeNo
"Good fucking luck. You better write the most sympathetic story of your life if you expect to be unbanned. I mean tears need to be formed and creating a flowing river of anguish before we even consider making a thread in the AO section to discuss your unban. "
That language useage is also unacceptable, its not a joke. Some of these people sincerely want to be unbanned and acting in a childish way commenting that you best make an amazing 'Story' for admins to read is discraceful.
Story would imply describing what he's done in the past to make up for his incredibly ability to break THE SAME RULE over and over just 9ish months earlier. People do not change overnight, and even in 9 months. He fucked up the same rule REPEATEDLY without giving a fuck (clearly). I hold no respect for those who held no respect for our rules. Explain to me why we should just let anyone who applies after a year back on the hopes and dreams they have changed, the logic of that is incredibly stupid.

And so apparently we go about judging people on how many bans they have? So what if someone comes back after 4 years and has 7 bans, what then? What if they have entirely changed and have become mature and sensible within communities? Yet you dont know that because they have not been able to come back since you've shunned him due to him having multiple bans 'Chances'.

BTW multiple bans are not chances, they are punishments. Chances are given when you forgive someone and do NOT give them a ban. And everyone deserves AT THE LEAST two chances. This is about moral judgement, not discriminative judgement.
Multiple bans for the EXACT. SAME. REASON. are multiple CHANCES to learn not to do them. The fact they are not PERMED is their "forgiveness" you are expecting from us.

We judge people based on bans when it is a ridiculous amount over what we usually permit players to have, because it shows an extreme intolerance for paying attention to our rules if they manage to continually break them. Obvious a player coming back after 4 years would be handled differently than one from 6 months. 4 years is time to change, a year is not really that long, and the chances of being changed are slim. This has been proven multiple times in the past where we unban players after a year and they do something in the next MONTH to fuck it up. Humans simply do not change as drastically as your implying they do.

Do we turn players away without getting to know them fully? Yes, because we simply do not have time to get to know every person who wants to be unbanned and then take more time to make sure they aren't just putting up a front to get unbanned. Instead, we expect players who have been permed to convince us why they should be unbanned by making a sympathetic apology or explanation for their actions, as I instructed Jack to do in that post you quoted me on. Turns out he didn't really have much to say in his defense other than "Unban me and you'll see if I've changed or not" which simply isn't a good reason to unban someone who repeatedly, over the limit, broke our rules. The SAME rule at that.

You clearly have a childish way of looking at the world where you believe people can change overnight and that 1 year is a superduper long time, it simply isn't true. Santa Claus isn't real either. You come in here bashing our community's policies with little respect for those who enforce it, I treat you with no respect either. The next time you call me or any other member of this community out on doing something wrong, you better have a really good logical reason for it, not this crap you face smashed into your keyboard then used spell check to come up with.

[Caution]

Can I get back the 5 minutes of my life I spent reading OP and skimming through this thread

[ExRev]

Can I get back the 5 minutes of my life I spent reading OP and skimming through this thread

I liked the part that this was a 'community vote' but that admins are apparently NOT part of said community.

[Psyche]

so when are we getting an admin disco

[SexualHarassmentPanda]

so when are we getting an admin disco

after we change our butt policy

[Banana Joe]

I demand addiotional lumber!