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View Full Version : Aimbot's in Zombie Mod



krazykarl
27 May 2008, 08:59pm
So this is in reference to a couple players, and before any demo's are recorded or complaints issued I wanted to open up some discussion.

1. Why would anyone need to aimbot in Zombie Mod? I mean seriously, burst fire, aiming, and not sucking will beat a noob with an aimbot every day of the week, not to mention it does no good once you get tagged.

2. I have noticed some very peculiar behavior from some regulars on Napalm when spectating for extended periods of time. Jerkiness when firing the first shot, as well as some interesting recoil patterns.

3. I have stood on a few of said players heads and experienced what could best be described as "vibration" or shaking. From my experience this is definitive proof of someone using an aimbot/antirecoil, however I am no expert and leave that for you all to tell me.

I probably have one of the highest playtimes on Napalm and being that aimbot is relatively harmless to me in my playstyle I haven't brought it up earlier. This leads to point 4.

4. The culprits are regulars who play just as much as me if not more, however don't do nearly as well as myself in terms of kills and ranking, which to me shows that there really isn't harm in it. I'm not going to point fingers unless asked directly who I suspect because I'd like the community to tell me if aimbot is just tolerated because it's very very difficult to proove and enforce.

KrazyK

Jimbo
27 May 2008, 09:09pm
i can;t agree more karl aloutgh im not gonna mention any names i could think of a few off my head. Finally someone brings this out.:blushing:

Haggard
27 May 2008, 09:21pm
We perm ban everyone who we beleive to be aimbotting, but we dont issue ban until a few eyes have seen the demo's and are 100% positive.

Italian Jew
27 May 2008, 11:49pm
If you have evidence, great. Show it and the perpetrators can be removed. If not, then you just seem like a crazy whack job mad at the regulars for being better than you or something to that effect.

Jimbo
28 May 2008, 01:06am
the sad thing is most of the regualrs who aim bot are worse than me..

Tcp-Kill
28 May 2008, 02:01am
Well, to have an aimbot is sad on zombie

No recoil would help loads on zombie, and they're fairly easy to identify

Astrum
28 May 2008, 04:12am
First let me say that hacks are almost always plainly obvious. You can be suspicious all you want but the evidence should be pretty damning if you suspect someone of hacking.


3. I have stood on a few of said players heads and experienced what could best be described as "vibration" or shaking. From my experience this is definitive proof of someone using an aimbot/antirecoil, however I am no expert and leave that for you all to tell me.

Unless ValvE comes out and says this is a viable test I'm going to call malarky on this one. Vibration while on another person's head would be caused by the physics engine, or more specifically the collision detection of the physics engine. Since I've never noticed any subtle movements while on someone's head I can only assume that the collision boundaries between players are static if not using movement keys, i.e. if only looking around with the mouse.

My best guess would be that the error term of the physics approximation is too high and the calculations are essentially garbage, but the engine uses them anyway; then in wonderful magical ways it manifests itself as a vibration.

Keep in mind that the server does these physics calculations, so if someone is dropping packets the server may not get enough data to make an accurate approximation, leading to the large error term.

This "definitive method" of detecting hackers sounds a bit like throwing someone in the lake with rocks tied to their feet and proclaiming they're a witch if they float. If you don't see them getting massive quantities of headshots which would statistically be improbable and you don't see them hitting the same spot over and over without careful burst control then this is absolutely not proof. Proof is direct observation, not a perceived "byproduct" which hacking introduces into the game.


4. The culprits are regulars who play just as much as me if not more, however don't do nearly as well as myself in terms of kills and ranking, which to me shows that there really isn't harm in it. I'm not going to point fingers unless asked directly who I suspect because I'd like the community to tell me if aimbot is just tolerated because it's very very difficult to proove and enforce.

If it's plainly obvious, which it almost always is, then ban. If it's hard to tell then either they have some skill or their hacks are actually working against them. Approximating human reaction is the exact opposite of what you want to do if your goal is to hack.

Honestly, if you suspect they're hacking then post demos and have the admins decide. Although given your criteria for detecting a hacker I'd have to say I'd be leery at best. I'm not trying to be rude, but I've seen many servers where suspicion turns into paranoia which turns into a witch hunt. I've seen it so many times that I will not accuse anyone of hacking unless it's plain as day. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt than spread suspicion and slander/libel about someone who may just be a good player.

krazykarl
28 May 2008, 02:03pm
If you have evidence, great. Show it and the perpetrators can be removed. If not, then you just seem like a crazy whack job mad at the regulars for being better than you or something to that effect.

Well I'm not going to deny being a crazy whack job but your reasoning is flawed seeing as how I've held the top spot on Napalm for quite a while now, and no one is even close to me in points anymore.

The purpose of this thread was merely to figure out if its worth my time speccing and recording demos of those whom I suspect. From the tone of the responses I have my answer. Thanks!

KrazyK

krazykarl
28 May 2008, 02:07pm
Honestly, if you suspect they're hacking then post demos and have the admins decide. Although given your criteria for detecting a hacker I'd have to say I'd be leery at best. I'm not trying to be rude, but I've seen many servers where suspicion turns into paranoia which turns into a witch hunt. I've seen it so many times that I will not accuse anyone of hacking unless it's plain as day. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt than spread suspicion and slander/libel about someone who may just be a good player.

This is the very reason I made a post and opened discussion instead of crying wolf.

If you read my initial post again, I do not believe that it affects me nor does it change the way I play. I wanted an honest answer as to if aimbotting is just tolerated because nowadays it is so difficult to proove without the shit turning into a "witch hunt" as you so eloquently stated.

I have my answer and thanks for the feedback! Back to the game!

KrazyK

2fast
29 May 2008, 05:42am
i agree with karl aimbot is pointless

Lux
29 May 2008, 10:08am
4. The culprits are regulars who play just as much as me if not more, however don't do nearly as well as myself in terms of kills and ranking, which to me shows that there really isn't harm in it.


When it comes down to ZombieMod, I really don't see why people base skill on their kills and ranking. I'm not a guy who takes games very seriously, I don't set out to be the best, if I happen to become good from having fun ok but I don't purposely do things to become better.

If people hack just to get a better ranking that is very sad, even more so on zombie mod. I look down on people who want high rank, especially the people who don't consider that the game is not going to be very fun for everyone if they just awp the first few zombies to the death, rooftop v2 is a good example.



So in my opinion ban hackers not only because they get an unfair advantage, but because generally it is harmful to the enjoyment of others. I just want a game where zombies have a chance and humans have a chance, no 100v1's or 1v100's or unfair awp spots or hackers.

bones brigade
29 May 2008, 07:19pm
what i have to add is becareful who you ban and watch the person. im starting to believe demos cant be trusted. reason why is that i was banned for aimbotting and they had demos showing me shooting and they all agreed that i was aimbotting. yet i wasnt and they almost permantly banned me which pissed me off. it annoys that they went through all this eveidence and thought even though it wasnt true that i was using aimbot.

Prvtpwnage
29 May 2008, 07:22pm
So this is in reference to a couple players, and before any demo's are recorded or complaints issued I wanted to open up some discussion.



2. I have noticed some very peculiar behavior from some regulars on Napalm when spectating for extended periods of time. Jerkiness when firing the first shot, as well as some interesting recoil patterns.



KrazyK
High Sensitivity, Good Gun Control?

krazykarl
30 May 2008, 11:29am
I don't set out to be the best, if I happen to become good from having fun ok but I don't purposely do things to become better.

I look down on people who want high rank, especially the people who don't consider that the game is not going to be very fun for everyone if they just awp the first few zombies to the death, rooftop v2 is a good example.

You post is off topic but I will reply since you did take some shots at me personally.

I am ranked number 1 on the Napalm server. Part of my "fun" which differs than your "fun" is trying to be the best. In life I never half-ass anything, be it class, work, and now my career. Every person has a different aspect of the game which they consider entertaining.

The fact that you look down on people for the above means you look down on my having fun which is a catch 22 for your argument to begin with. Do we flip a coin to decide if you or me get to have "fun"?

I will also note, I never use the awp, nor do I ever go to the "cheap" spots (like the stage in Highschool, or other places just to stat whore). I pick spots where the zombies still have a chance if they are good and where teamwork is sometimes necessary to win. Not to mention I love super boost jumping as a zombie to clear out spots on GoddsKillerField which normally would be impossible to get to with CT's and Machine Guns.

But more on point is the fact that this was not a discussion of my rank, how I play, but if and how much aimbot affects the dynamics of the game.

KrazyK

Italian Jew
30 May 2008, 11:39am
More like third actually...the people at the top usually use Autosnipers. They like the comfort of that easy to use and cheap gun.

bones brigade
30 May 2008, 05:23pm
i dont believe in the autosniper or machine gun. i find they give to much of an advantage to humans. i also go to spots where zombies have chance mainly becuase then the zombies come to u over people who hide in cheap spots. all in all play fare and kill all zombies there is no nogotiating with zombies.

Lux
30 May 2008, 06:42pm
You post is off topic but I will reply since you did take some shots at me personally.

I am ranked number 1 on the Napalm server. Part of my "fun" which differs than your "fun" is trying to be the best. In life I never half-ass anything, be it class, work, and now my career. Every person has a different aspect of the game which they consider entertaining.

The fact that you look down on people for the above means you look down on my having fun which is a catch 22 for your argument to begin with. Do we flip a coin to decide if you or me get to have "fun"?

I will also note, I never use the awp, nor do I ever go to the "cheap" spots (like the stage in Highschool, or other places just to stat whore). I pick spots where the zombies still have a chance if they are good and where teamwork is sometimes necessary to win. Not to mention I love super boost jumping as a zombie to clear out spots on GoddsKillerField which normally would be impossible to get to with CT's and Machine Guns.

But more on point is the fact that this was not a discussion of my rank, how I play, but if and how much aimbot affects the dynamics of the game.

KrazyK

If that is how you play then I don't think I have taken shots at you. In a game such as napalm the point is to find a good spot and defend it right?

"I pick spots where the zombies still have a chance if they are good and where teamwork is sometimes necessary to win"

I think that is acceptable, on the napalm server that is exactly what I dream of.

You are a different person to me, I am quite "half-assed", I don't have the drive I had in the past anymore, but I don't think it is about effort, its about common sense, awareness of others and the point of the game/map itself.

What I was describing was on the lines of what Italian Jew was thinking. I especially despise runaway 2 on escape servers because humans run to the roofs and gather together with machines guns and awps and wait for zombies to get to "shoot em off" spots and then spam bullets, leaving the zombies the task of going all the way back to go and get shot down again.

I'm sure if you have common sense you can see that this isn't much fun. On a map like Spacestation it is more acceptable because of the enviroment but here it just ruins the game, the point is to escape not chase zombies into the corner.

I like to give zombies a chance, if I feel that it would even the balance sometimes I sacrifice myself to make the round fair. If it isn't fair, then what is the point playing, the outcome is decided there is no skill in it at all.

So sorry for offending you but it is not directed at you at all, sometimes I fail to go into enough detail about my thoughts.



My post wasn't based around hackers, it was about fairness which is something high up on my list for everything but hacking came into that so I included it in my off topic post, which is ofn (off/on) topic I guess