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View Full Version : Wipe the Slate Clean - Remove all permanent bans older than 6 months - year+



Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 01:36am
I think the title speaks for itself but I may as well clarify my reasoning.

Seriously, we have over 22 thousand bans, quite a few 3 years or older and pages worth of imports. I see absolutely no reason not to just let bygones be bygones. At this point in the game I think we should just drop the perm bans entirely and hand them out on a case by case basis. We have already proven countless times that "permanent" is not permanent in SG and this entire process of appeals and keeping track is a waste of time. The whole "if they want to come back, they can appeal" or "well they were perma banned and we don't want those kinda players on our servers anyways" shtick is getting pretty ridiculous along with these eternal personal grudges for a handful of people. Absolutely no offense intended to those that have them but come on, what is the worse they can do? What are people afraid of or so angry will happen?

Does anyone really take these bullshit theories into account about evil little leprechauns sitting in the CSS shadows just waiting for the permanent bans to drop so they can immediately infest the servers? That they might pop out of nowhere raise their middle finger and call you an asshole?

The point was made and it's the only point that I think is actually significant. We can ban you if you get out of hand. We have always had that ability and we will always have it. It's a process that takes a whole 5 seconds at most.

The very worst that can happen is some token player coming into the server once every few months and getting banned for the same lame insignificant shit we already ban for and no one even knowing who the hell he/she was. The only reason why we even know who any one of these no named completely random people are is because we constantly remind ourselves of their existence when in fact, we have absolutely no reason to and shouldn't. It's not like they raped you in the alley behind the corner deli and are up for a parole hearing.

Every time i come back from an extended leave it seems like the same thing is happening or being talked about. This person wants an appeal but won't get it, this person that did this literally years ago, still blah blah blah QQ angry blurrgla.

It's fucking exhausting just taking a second long glance at these threads. I can't imagine what it's like for people to actively involve themselves in these things for days, months, and years with no end.

Let's just unban them and maybe get some more players in the servers, more word of mouth, and maybe some more donations. It's not like anything show stopping will actually happen.

Octa
8 Jul 2013, 01:44am
Two words. Or more like one really. Starbucks.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 01:53am
Two words. Or more like one really. Starbucks.

I stopped giving a shit about him when I actually had issues. Now? Fuck man, the only reason why he is still a problem is because you guys just won't let the shit go. It's the same with pretty much all of them. You know who Starbucks & Soulkeeper are to me and 99.999999999999% of SG and the rest of the players that visits the servers are? Absolutely a complete unknown or a name, not even his real name mind you, but an online handle, of some faceless nobody that lives hundreds, thousands, possibly countries away.

EDIT: And who are they to the members that actually knew them? Some guy we banned and can still ban any time we please.

NaY.
8 Jul 2013, 02:06am
Absolutely a complete unknown or a name, not even his real name mind you, but an online handle, of some faceless nobody that lives hundreds, thousands, possibly countries away.

They might be unknown to you but they could be known for others that are more active to that specific server.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 02:12am
They might be unknown to you but they could be known for others that are more active to that specific server.

And what? You can't just play the game and not spend every waking moment being angry at a person? That's beyond childish if anyone has that issue. If they get out of hand you ban them again, but I am pretty sure that if they play our servers, they aren't going to want to play or associate with anyone that dislikes them. They will do what old members coming back always do...just sit in a vent channel or privately message those they actually care about.

If they end up starting shit due to friction between old players, it's pretty much due to what it always has been. People not dropping it and letting things get out of hand.

mapper
8 Jul 2013, 02:26am
I actually support this thread. I dont think players who join the servers of SG (& who have a perm from over a year ago) would still remember they were banned on here, and they would rather join by accident.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 02:34am
I actually support this thread. I dont think players who join the servers of SG (& who have a perm from over a year ago) would still remember they were banned on here, and they would rather join by accident.

If our appeals indicate anything, the vast majority are exactly like that Mapper. I love SG but I have absolutely no delusions about it being a mind blowing core deep experience that players that were banned after 3 days of playing have been pining for years on end just to get another taste of this addicting sweet nectar.

They are just like anyone else. They try to find a server that has some population, maybe late at night when their regular is empty, and try to get an hour or two of game play in. If they can't get in, they don't spend hours sitting by with their thumb up their ass hoping to play in a server they don't even remember when a second or third option might be available. They just move on.

I rather have that person fill a slot in our servers, get the chance to stick around, maybe favorite it as a note, than just up and say fuck it, move to something else and forget about the entire thing all over again.

Jaffa
8 Jul 2013, 02:48am
To get yourself permed off our servers, you really have to be dumb, disruptive, a troll, hacker or racist. I am quite happy to be able to play without as many of the above as possible.

I don't see why letting players who did enough to get permed once will make our servers more enjoyable to play in. The majority of the 22thousand you stated won't even play css anymore, making it an exercise in uselessness.

As to most names being unknown now, that sounds like perming has worked. Occasionally we do have players appealling perms they received a while ago, and some are U banned (case by case basis) as long as they avoid any future bans.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 03:00am
To get yourself permed off our servers, you really have to be dumb, disruptive, a troll, hacker or racist. I am quite happy to be able to play without as many of the above as possible.

I don't see why letting players who did enough to get permed once will make our servers more enjoyable to play in. The majority of the 22thousand you stated won't even play css anymore, making it an exercise in uselessness.

As to most names being unknown now, that sounds like perming has worked. Occasionally we do have players appealling perms they received a while ago, and some are U banned (case by case basis) as long as they avoid any future bans.

Don't tell me that just about every single one of us can name off handfuls of players that have been perma banned, have come back from being banned for something never to do it again, changed their colors, or have just let time get them through.

Don't throw that around when we have admins that were those exact positions. Having any number of players continue to fill our servers is a good thing, not a bad. More players will always make them more enjoyable. I'm not sure how that isn't a good enough reason.

The appeals is a joke man. It doesn't give us some magical insight into a personal soul, mind or thoughts. We let just about everyone in these days. Why not just make it official?

The whole unknown thing...idk what your point was suppose to be there. Any server is filled with the unknown. That's the majority and always has been. We aren't a clan but a community remember. If you knowns is what this is suppose to be about, some things should have been changed a long time ago.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 03:42am
But hey I'm just tossing it out there for others to mull over.

I just don't think it's necessary is all. It's not like these guys fucked your girl while you were out on a business trip or something. On that huge "Things to care about" list, I really believe this shouldn't be on it.

I know it's a small number, but it seems like even that is wanted. Why not? I can't see anything actually happening that would negatively effect SG any real way.

XeNo
8 Jul 2013, 04:01am
No.

People get permed for a reason, simply because "we can just reperm them" doesn't mean we should force our Admins to go through the hassle of dealing with repeated rule breakers all over again. It's not a matter of if we are still upset over whoever is now perm banned, it's that if people care to play again and have changed their colors, they will appeal. While it doesn't necessarily tell us they have changed, it's a sign they are trying to get back and anyone who really cares to play in the servers again will try more than once if they fail.

The negative affect would be of those 22 thousands bans, more than likely at least 15 thousand are people that constantly broke rules because they didn't give a fuck and more than likely will do it all over again, why would you ever suggest allowing people who consistently broke rules to play again?

Your argument is entirely stupid, and is not a reason to allow 22 thousand rule breakers back based on blind faith that they have changed the way they act, or that our admins can just ban them over again. A specific few, maybe I would agree with, but sure as hell not going to agree with unbanning all of them, ever.

I would like to hear the positive reasoning for unbanning them rather than the stupid and incredibly wrong "There's no negative effect" reasoning. Aside from a handful of them possibly coming back and never causing an issue again, they would amount to nothing in the community considering they were permed for 6+ months and never cared to appeal. So I see it as no real positive reason with unbanning all of them.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 04:17am
Bullshit.

We aren't getting thousands of anything coming back to break our rules and they sure as hell wouldn't do so intentionally. You couldn't tell jackshit apart from anything and our days wouldn't be anything different. Oh the unbearable hassle of spending 1 second it takes to press a button, mute, or kick.

Just trying to blow this shit out of proportion. Hassle? Lol like admins are ever going to be overwhelmed.

If every single one of those 22k appealed we would let 99% of them through based on the exact same standards we have let the other dozens and hundreds get by.

Just wasting time by having people sit in appeals for days so someone can go search up their steam ids, say imported you pass or well it's been so and so long, so you are on thin ice mister.

NaY.
8 Jul 2013, 04:28am
Elleon calm down. You are trying to hard.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 04:36am
Elleon calm down. You are trying to hard.

I'm not really trying at all man lol

I'm not joking. I really think this is that insignificant of an issue that opposition always bugs me. Bug hey, it's a public forum and it's not my decision. Not like a rejection would hurt me in anyway and I'd rather be shut down with logic than just a blank closed thread.

Good to get some clarification on things from the higher ups at times. Just took a look at the ban list and was like wtf...huh, never even wondered why we even bothered until now.

Nasu
8 Jul 2013, 04:53am
A mass unban is not a problem for the admins but to the normal players who have to make complaints and call admins to server just to get one rulebreaker caught at a time. Most people don't even bother to make a complaint and leave the server instead. I've seen this happen in TTT where a single RDMer or a hacker can easily empty a server.

If we assume we don't get flooded with rulebreakers then what's even the point. Most people who trolled/breaked rules/hacked in the past are probably still the same or have left CSS. There isn't going to be an influx of players coming here.

Maybe some more leniency in appeals for players who are liked in the community (afamad, hanehane[JUST EXAMPLES]) and helped populate servers. Players who are unbanned one at a time aren't really going to be a problem like a mass unban would be.

XeNo
8 Jul 2013, 05:02am
Bullshit.

We aren't getting thousands of anything coming back to break our rules and they sure as hell wouldn't do so intentionally. You couldn't tell jackshit apart from anything and our days wouldn't be anything different. Oh the unbearable hassle of spending 1 second it takes to press a button, mute, or kick.

Just trying to blow this shit out of proportion. Hassle? Lol like admins are ever going to be overwhelmed.

If every single one of those 22k appealed we would let 99% of them through based on the exact same standards we have let the other dozens and hundreds get by.

Just wasting time by having people sit in appeals for days so someone can go search up their steam ids, say imported you pass or well it's been so and so long, so you are on thin ice mister.
Your entire idea is to undermine 6+ years of a banning protocol for absolutely no reason what so ever. It has to be the most ridiculous and idiotic idea I have ever heard. Your only reasoning is that "We can just do it all over again!" and you don't seem to realize how stupid that is.

A lot have quite playing, a lot have no interest in playing in our servers again (Cause they think we're a dumb community now that they ended up banned) which will only encourage them to rule break again when they join back, others are trolls or simply just play the game to break the rules and do whatever they want, while maybe a handful are people that actually want to play again, but don't care enough to appeal. No matter the argument in defense of these people, it's stupid and more pointless to unban them all for the sake of unbanning than it is to leave 22 thousand perm bans on there.

Our perm bans serve a purpose, and just as if we unbanned every single person that appealed, to remove all those bans is just telling all the assholes, rule breakers, hackers, and general idiots out there that we are ignorant and stupid enough to give them all fourth, fifth and sixth (or more) chances to get banned. Sorry if I would like to see this community prosper, not go backwards.

Edit:
I've also taken note that you did not seem to have a response to my request for a positive reason in unbanning all of them. I take it you realized the same as I did that there is none.

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 05:05am
A mass unban is not a problem for the admins but to the normal players who have to make complaints and call admins to server just to get one rulebreaker caught at a time. Most people don't even bother to make a complaint and leave the server instead. I've seen this happen in TTT where a single RDMer or a hacker can easily empty a server.

If we assume we don't get flooded with rulebreakers then what's even the point. Most people who trolled/breaked rules/hacked in the past are probably still the same or have left CSS. There isn't going to be an influx of players coming here.

Maybe some more leniency in appeals for players who are liked in the community (afamad, hanehane[JUST EXAMPLES]) and helped populate servers. Players who are unbanned one at a time aren't really going to be a problem like a mass unban would be.

Yeah i definitely thought about the players and that is kinda the priority, but idk man. I have also seen servers empty but I wouldn't worry too much myself about the CSS servers. It's not like it use to be in my opinion. We don't really have any maps on ZE that can kill loads of people anymore, MG is kinda, well very safe. Only ones I would be a little worried about is JB but i always see a couple admins in there any time of the day and I hear TTT was dead anyways.

Leniency sure. I don't know much about them so *shrug* I have always been for it but unless it's all in or not, it never passes. What do you mean by afamad? He was playing in MG or ZE last night or the day before. Is he suppose to be banned again?

EDIT: Sorry Xeno, I just skimmed your initial post. Positives would be along the lines of what Nasu was talking about. Leniency i guess. We change things all of the time. I don't particularly care if we lose face in the eyes of the other communities. Hell I don't even know them. It's already been pointed out that the number i am talking about is small, but whatever it is, generally there are handfuls of players that bring in other. Yeah they get a little rowdy but...we make exceptions all of the time. It's not new. If you are worried about that kind of thing...well I'm not sure how to respond to that.

I really just think you are worrying too much about issues coming up. I've never seen anything substantial happen. Of all the problems that keep popping up like weeds, I have never seen the higherups deal with it differently in the end. It's just the posts and threads, and all the shit in between that seems to get people really pissed off and stuck on the same thing.

Frosty
8 Jul 2013, 05:07am
Yeah i definitely thought about the players and that is kinda the priority, but idk man. I have also seen servers empty but I wouldn't worry too much myself about the CSS servers. It's not like it use to be in my opinion. We don't really have any maps on ZE that can kill loads of people anymore, MG is kinda, well very safe. Only ones I would be a little worried about is JB but i always see a couple admins in there any time of the day and I hear TTT was dead anyways.

Leniency sure. I don't know much about them so *shrug* I have always been for it but unless it's all in or not, it never passes. What do you mean by afamad? He was playing in MG or ZE last night or the day before. Is he suppose to be banned again?

ZE has plenty of maps that kill the server and Afamad has been permed for over a year now.

Jaffa
8 Jul 2013, 05:13am
I'm not sure you fully read my post, as you refer to things I did not say (see your first paragraph in response).

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 05:16am
ZE has plenty of maps that kill the server and Afamad has been permed for over a year now.

My bad, I was thinking about like stuff that could seriously take over the servers such as that TTT instance. Closing doors, blowing up a bridge...after a few months. I means it's like 1 round you know. They can do it over and over but...is it a serious issue? When I was in a lot of admins didn't care. I assumed the players just adapted or whatever.

EDIT: Not to change the subject since i just dawned on me that it may be related...but what's up with Afamad? Kinda seems like a prime example. Hasn't he been permed a couple times?

I've never had any real issues with him but it's not like he's disrespectful or anything. He brings people in and when he screws up he gets banned....then comes back. Idk, maybe he doesn't try anything with me because I was always more of a hardass when it came to enforcing the rules. Or maybe he just doesn't care since he seems to be able to avoid our bans anyways. Anyone know about that?

And yeah, permed for a year but he is still kicking around the servers. That voice is hard to forget.

SilentGuns
8 Jul 2013, 05:30am
Might as well go to the local prison and let out all of the inmates .


Seriously though these people have made their (bad) decisions and have been permed for a reason . We can unperm people only if they present a good case in their appeals. Of course there is always a chance that one of the higherups snaps and deletes the banlists for teh lulz .

Elleon
8 Jul 2013, 05:45am
Might as well go to the local prison and let out all of the inmates .


Seriously though these people have made their (bad) decisions and have been permed for a reason . We can unperm people only if they present a good case in their appeals. Of course there is always a chance that one of the higherups snaps and deletes the banlists for teh lulz .

LOL alright alright.

You joke but it'll happen though. Mark my words.

SexualHarassmentPanda
8 Jul 2013, 07:46am
If people don't care enough about the community to at least make an attempt at getting unbanned from it, then they don't care enough about the community to make any sort of valuable contribution to it if they were suddenly unbanned. The ability to appeal a permanent ban exists for reason.


Of course there is always a chance that one of the higherups snaps and deletes the banlists for teh lulz .


You joke but it'll happen though. Mark my words.

Panda AO 2013

Paralyzed
8 Jul 2013, 07:53am
Panda AO 2013
Oh gawd, not you as well.

Tweezy
8 Jul 2013, 10:19am
I can see the pros and cons to this, but in all reality why bother? Yeah we have a lot of bans on the banlist, but it doesn't exactly effect us in a negative way. If people really want to be unbanned, let them come make an appeal.

Banana Joe
8 Jul 2013, 10:27am
I can see the pros and cons to this, but in all reality why bother? Yeah we have a lot of bans on the banlist, but it doesn't exactly effect us in a negative way. If people really want to be unbanned, let them come make an appeal.

Just like XeNo, I really fail to see the pros at all. Can you at least explain what pros there are?

sebak
8 Jul 2013, 10:38am
Just like XeNo, I really fail to see the pros at all. Can you at least explain what pros there are?

somewhere hidden in the huge mass of banned players is someone he cares about

Vinyl
8 Jul 2013, 11:10am
this is a great idea, not only would the hackers come back, but the trolls as well

im all for this

Tweezy
8 Jul 2013, 11:44am
Just like XeNo, I really fail to see the pros at all. Can you at least explain what pros there are?

A less hectic banlist :')

XeNo
8 Jul 2013, 12:15pm
A less hectic banlist :')
So basically, no pros and only cons.

If I had the ability, I would have rejected this already.

floffypus
8 Jul 2013, 12:22pm
80% of all the players that have been permed for over 1 year won't come back, they have most likely moved on and forgot all about sg. They didn't care for the community which got them permed and they probably still don't.

Like they say, if they really care they will appeal.

Tweezy
8 Jul 2013, 12:27pm
So basically, no pros and only cons.

If I had the ability, I would have rejected this already.

Did you read my post? I said that this shouldn't be done. I also miss read this for some reason as stating 6years, not six months-1year.

high rws
8 Jul 2013, 12:37pm
cancerous tumors such as gero, mick, albania, and starbucks should be fucked off forever with no chance of unban

shit, wait

sebak
8 Jul 2013, 02:33pm
80% of all the players that have been permed for over 1 year won't come back, they have most likely moved on and forgot all about sg. They didn't care for the community which got them permed and they probably still don't.

Like they say, if they really care they will appeal.

and they do but ao's have such the tightest assholes.