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high rws
3 Aug 2011, 12:19pm
which do you support? why?

IMO capitalism. my family lived through communism and told me how utterly shitty and oppressive it was. communism is a good theory but i don't think it'd ever work with real humans

Drox
3 Aug 2011, 12:23pm
Capitalism

fanatiik
3 Aug 2011, 12:24pm
what about a in between?

Jazzyy
3 Aug 2011, 12:26pm
Comrades, what is capitalism?
People controlling people!
And what is communism?
The exact opposite!


Also: socialism. US of A although is capitalistic, still shares a lot in common with socialism and a mixed economy. We've had times where we've dealt with monopolies and what not and our government provides states with funding for civil services, etc.

Drox
3 Aug 2011, 12:30pm
Comrades, what is capitalism?
People controlling people!
And what is communism?
The exact opposite!

Well, really communism is more like a party dictatorship that claims it works for the people. Communism is a awesome concept however no one country has really made it work to the paradise pinko's would love to see (Socialism would be more of the liking to most instead of full blooded communism). Even China has their skeletons which are dealt with accordingly comrade. ;)

PotshotPolka
3 Aug 2011, 12:33pm
We're all Keynesians now, Chinese included.

high rws
3 Aug 2011, 12:43pm
what about a in between?

socialism?

PotshotPolka
3 Aug 2011, 01:22pm
socialism?

Socialism is Communism.


Anyone who wants to say differently better be ready to spend hours talking about revisionism, Socialist evolution as opposed to revolution, and macroeconomic models.

Honestly, you should have just named the thread market economy versus command economy.

high rws
3 Aug 2011, 01:24pm
Socialism is Communism.


Anyone who wants to say differently better be ready to spend hours talking about revisionism, Socialist evolution as opposed to revolution, and macroeconomic models.

Honestly, you should have just named the thread market economy versus command economy.

i like to thing of socialism as a more capitalist version of communism, but as you said not gonna get into this

PotshotPolka
3 Aug 2011, 04:34pm
Socialism as defined by Marx and Lenin (although admittedly Lenin's interpretations for most things is a pretty lulzy thing to use) is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism (by that I mean what people now call "pure communism" because people are unable to understand simple concepts), so no, they're not the same, although if you choose to use a different interpretation of Marx (one which is a bit pointless and silly then you could say they're pretty damn similar). :|


That sir sounds Trotskyist, since you're arguing socialism is a perpetual revolution, the "pure" part anyways, since it's fundamentally impossible to achieve in a real society. Arguing they're different from Marx's original viewpoint (before the "Imperialist" stage was brought up I think) is simply saying Communism is the more utopian version of Socialism once the state melts away.

Ganzta
3 Aug 2011, 06:21pm
As an economics/poli sci major, I lol'd.

PotshotPolka
4 Aug 2011, 04:49pm
I don't really see how you're arguing that socialism = communism to be honest, would you mind elaborating?

Bluntly, because it's just another point along the historical development of Marxism. To claim you're socialist should simply mean you're Marxist, as should claiming you're communist, but as we're both aware that like liberalism, socialism is just another point along the political spectrum these days, and is no longer true to historical meaning. Hell, the CPRF these days only has 8% of it's supporters claim to be true communists, the rest are just conservative leftists defending their pensions.

I'd say it's because leftist parties softened many of their real stances (obviously the most basis being recognizing universal suffrage as a right being one of the first) but they held onto their party's original names as a means of keeping face and keeping true leftist radicals from competing (see France and it's billion red parties for details).

Ganzta
4 Aug 2011, 10:22pm
:focus:
ANYWAAYYYY, instead of debate on the correct definitions of communism and socialism, I'm pretty sure the OP, with his lack of better terms, meant to compare free market economy versus command economy. With that being said, no government in the world is strictly one or the other. Every government in the world pretty much functions under a mixed economic system.
And as potshot said, we're all Keynesian now.

high rws
4 Aug 2011, 10:34pm
:focus:
ANYWAAYYYY, instead of debate on the correct definitions of communism and socialism, I'm pretty sure the OP, with his lack of better terms, meant to compare free market economy versus command economy. With that being said, no government in the world is strictly one or the other. Every government in the world pretty much functions under a mixed economic system.
And as potshot said, we're all Keynesian now.

lack of better terms? i wanted to be as blunt as possible

PotshotPolka
4 Aug 2011, 11:58pm
Keynesian economics in a nutshell is free-market with intervention by the government to attempt to bring the long-run and short-run as close to each other as possible. Doing so in the face of political, social, and logistic issues however means experiences with these policies may vary... a lot.

Eskomo
5 Aug 2011, 12:37pm
I like my Socialist life here in Canada :love:

high rws
5 Aug 2011, 05:44pm
Do me and Potshot win a prize for intelligently discussing socialism without the thread being raped?

i think this whole topic so far was intelligent, i see no flame yet

high rws
5 Aug 2011, 07:05pm
Yeah but SG doesn't have the best history of tolerance when it comes to this kind of debate and it used to always end up as "communists R evil go suck Stalin's cock!1!1!!`!!"

LOL

i still think communism in the past has been portrayed in an evil manner though. maybe it's just because albania was so harsh, but then again there's the USSR..Romania..North Korea..Hungary..etc

PotshotPolka
5 Aug 2011, 07:20pm
Must go dig up Red's first politics thread that Italian Jew got banned for posting in.

*Queen VenomousFate*
7 Aug 2011, 06:27pm
I'll go put the "Red Tampon Signal" on the roof...

Also, Free Markets.

*Queen VenomousFate*
7 Aug 2011, 06:28pm
i think this whole topic so far was intelligent, i see no flame yet

It's coming...

HZK
8 Aug 2011, 01:22pm
Let's not forget:

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/news/45160-chavez-says-capitalism-may-have-ended-life-mars.html (http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/news/45160-chavez-says-capitalism-may-have-ended-life-mars.html)