Strongest country in the world?

[high rws]

And by strongest, i mean by military power, economic power/growth, influence, education, health, technology, etc.

this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why.

my vote is Russia

i say this because of it's massive influence throughout history. For example, at one point literally all of eastern europe was either annexed into the Soviet Union or a soviet satellite state, excluding Greece. It takes a lot of military strength and ideological power to force THAT many countries into your alliance.

something the USA could never do.

[Im a Jackass]

Im going to go with Russia and China they both have big armys and both have alot of people living in there country. And this isj ust a guess but this thread is going to turn into people fighting over witch country is the best.

[high rws]

Im going to go with Russia and China they both have big armys and both have alot of people living in there country. And this isj ust a guess but this thread is going to turn into people fighting over witch country is the best.

USA has more than russia, but true that, inb4 flame

[sebak]

bleh america is in the shit

[Drox]

US kind of sucks in the education department plus our economy isn't doing too great. Although since the US spends more money in it's military than anything else they do walk away on top in that department. It's just really hard to choose adding up all these stats, if we did each one at a time by military, health, education, ect. It would be a lot easier, but I guess I'll be bias and say the US. lol

[Sniper]

The U.S. imo has the most technologically advanced military in the world so my vote is the U.S. But as far as education, and economics (look at our current state), we lack in that department. A close second for military for me would be China because of it's numbers. I mean let's be honest here, if China invaded a country, that country would be fucked.

[(von dutch) delta force 8]

economic power/growth

How can USA even be considered? they're 8 trillion in reds?

[Nishok]

How can USA even be considered? they're 8 trillion in reds?

Wasn't it 14.x trillion? :p

Anyways, I'm not voting because I don't really feel like it :(

[high rws]

Wasn't it 14.x trillion? :p

Anyways, I'm not voting because I don't really feel like it :(

USA won anyway it seems like it lol

[Drox]

Problem, World? :troll:

[Lux]

my vote is Russia

i say this because of it's massive influence throughout history. For example, at one point literally all of eastern europe was either annexed into the Soviet Union or a soviet satellite state, excluding Greece. It takes a lot of military strength and ideological power to force THAT many countries into your alliance.

something the USA could never do.

Well, it's Eastern Europe.....not really.

Goes down in like 20 minutes tops on Hearts of Iron 3 :madgrin:

But yeah....England had the greatest Empire the world has ever seen.

[PotshotPolka]

And by strongest, i mean by military power, economic power/growth, influence, education, health, technology, etc.

this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why.

my vote is Russia

i say this because of it's massive influence throughout history. For example, at one point literally all of eastern europe was either annexed into the Soviet Union or a soviet satellite state, excluding Greece. It takes a lot of military strength and ideological power to force THAT many countries into your alliance.

something the USA could never do.


Their military consists of poorly trained conscripts, and is one of the most disasterous institutions in the country, often cutting short young men's careers in education, turning them to crime while in the service, and even resulting in thousands of non-combat fatalities every year due to abuse. This being said, the Russian military, for a time, proved incapable of conquering, let alone pacifying a region smaller than Connecticut. (Chechnya, not Georgia, for those of you unfamiliar with Russia).

Also, the moment Gorbachev announced there wouldn't be a repeat of Hungary, people took the streets. (In the Soviet Union itself, however, polls stated over 70% of the population did not want their respective countries to succeed from the Union, blame that one on Yeltsin.)

Economically, Russia is a mess. Over 50% of the subjects' make more from federal subsidies than actual production. Russia has no debt because Russia doesn't get loans. 80% of it's economy is based in only eight different sectors (energy [gas], telecoms, weapons, agriculture, and few others I can't pull off the top of my head because I'm not copying this from wikipedia) The periphery is falling apart, infrastructure needs massive upgrades, and they should seriously buy pressure washers for their blackened, stained, Khrushchev-era mile-long apartment blocs. The first road actually going across the entire country was built only in 2009, they had a railroad running over a hundred years before that.

Education, while still championed is stagnating, and corruption and bribery at the university is so rife at the university level that Bachelor's degrees are worth as much as toilet paper.

I'm not going to throw a country out there because it's largely irrelevant. In raw economic terms the U.S. dominates. In a world with an annual production level of ~35 trillion dollars America generates approximately 14 trillion. That's a lot, but it's not total domination, and as the world's economy continues to soar, the U.S. will make more, but so will a lot of countries, and the margin will shrink. I seriously doubt China will ever reach the level of domination the U.S. did in global markets, but it will (is) be a juggernaut.

Militaries compared to US? I laugh. Why? This is why. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_air_group)
None of the countries with a prayer of holding their ground in a full-scale war, for any foreseeable reason in the near or distant future in the future, zombie apocalypse aside, is going to go fight the U.S.
Nukes? No one is GOING to nuke anyone. Get the fuck over it CODfags, it's deterrence.

Education is largely irrelevant. Why? Because education outside of primary (including highschool) is determined by the demand for the skills they learn. That's why English majors starve. Labor is fluid, and cheaper, equally educated Indians are preferable to IBM over MIT grads who expect you to pay out the nose.

[Lux]

The end of the story is......the place I work at will ship to Pakistan and Nigeria, but not Russia.

[high rws]

Their military consists of poorly trained conscripts, and is one of the most disasterous institutions in the country, often cutting short young men's careers in education, turning them to crime while in the service, and even resulting in thousands of non-combat fatalities every year due to abuse. This being said, the Russian military, for a time, proved incapable of conquering, let alone pacifying a region smaller than Connecticut. (Chechnya, not Georgia, for those of you unfamiliar with Russia).

Also, the moment Gorbachev announced there wouldn't be a repeat of Hungary, people took the streets. (In the Soviet Union itself, however, polls stated over 70% of the population did not want their respective countries to succeed from the Union, blame that one on Yeltsin.)

Economically, Russia is a mess. Over 50% of the subjects' make more from federal subsidies than actual production. Russia has no debt because Russia doesn't get loans. 80% of it's economy is based in only eight different sectors (energy [gas], telecoms, weapons, agriculture, and few others I can't pull off the top of my head because I'm not copying this from wikipedia) The periphery is falling apart, infrastructure needs massive upgrades, and they should seriously buy pressure washers for their blackened, stained, Khrushchev-era mile-long apartment blocs. The first road actually going across the entire country was built only in 2009, they had a railroad running over a hundred years before that.

Education, while still championed is stagnating, and corruption and bribery at the university is so rife at the university level that Bachelor's degrees are worth as much as toilet paper.

I'm not going to throw a country out there because it's largely irrelevant. In raw economic terms the U.S. dominates. In a world with an annual production level of ~35 trillion dollars America generates approximately 14 trillion. That's a lot, but it's not total domination, and as the world's economy continues to soar, the U.S. will make more, but so will a lot of countries, and the margin will shrink. I seriously doubt China will ever reach the level of domination the U.S. did in global markets, but it will (is) be a juggernaut.

Militaries compared to US? I laugh. Why? This is why. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_air_group)
None of the countries with a prayer of holding their ground in a full-scale war, for any foreseeable reason in the near or distant future in the future, zombie apocalypse aside, is going to go fight the U.S.
Nukes? No one is GOING to nuke anyone. Get the fuck over it CODfags, it's deterrence.

Education is largely irrelevant. Why? Because education outside of primary (including highschool) is determined by the demand for the skills they learn. That's why English majors starve. Labor is fluid, and cheaper, equally educated Indians are preferable to IBM over MIT grads who expect you to pay out the nose.

long post..

well obviously russia is going to be corrupt to a point today, and you basically just stated things that i already knew. look at ww2, russia lost 10 million soldiers. it's obvious that their perspective at war was basically just to throw everything they had in. and the conflict in Chechnya was a huge mess. Chechnyans are a caucasian people annexed into Russia. Their bad history started over a century ago.

Russia invaded chechnya on August 26th, 1999. The capital was seized in Feb. 2000. That's not a long time. You have to take account that the war in chechnya was moderately similar to the war in the middle east, chechnyans used suicide bombing tactics. there were only russian soldiers in chechnya, that had to take account the many civilians that would possibly be killed in the crossfire.

Arguably, the first real start on the war on terror was in 1998 when america bombed terrorist bases in Afghanistan and Sudan. The war on terror is still ongoing. That would be 12+ years. Russia however did have struggles with chechnya after the capital was seized, they did manage to remove their military from the region.

Economically, you have to understand that russia and america during the cold war had many arms races in which russia usually dominated. Russia can keep a spacestation running, however america can't. the USSR also spent all of it's money on nuclear weapons while the US stopped producing them at a large rate. You can see how the US economy had more time to recover, while russia did not. in 1991 the USSR fell, and all hell erupted in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. Russia abruptly shifted from communism to democracy, which is obviously still corrupt. it still needs time to recover. 20 years isn't a long time.

Russia was also probably the most devastated country in europe after ww2, and the loans that were given to russia obviously didn't cover all of that damage. russia was on a campaign to actively spread communism, while the USA didn't really actively enforce democracy, it only really stopped communism. The US didn't want the influence of the USSR to grow any larger.

As to economy, Obama just released another statement on how they plan to lower debt. the US is greatly in debt like you said yourself, people are making theories that it will be bankrupt in the near future. IMO the US will turn out just like greece. borrowing endlessly and endlessly on pointless wars. i'm guessing major riots will probably occur in the US due to the economy in the near future.

http://i54.tinypic.com/vdpym0.png

And to the military aspect: again while the US does have the most technologically advanced military, it also spends most of its expenditure on military. However Russia still has a lot of problems left over from the USSR to address before it can fully get out of its slump.

Addressing to what you said about a nuclear war never happening: i seriously doubt it's IMPOSSIBLE. it's just not likely. During the cuban missile crisis, if the US bombed cuba then Khrushchev would of launched his nuclear missiles at the United States.

[high rws]

Well, it's Eastern Europe.....not really.

Goes down in like 20 minutes tops on Hearts of Iron 3 :madgrin:

But yeah....England had the greatest Empire the world has ever seen.


what do you mean by "Well, it's Eastern Europe.....not really"?

[Bullet Wound]

You have Pakistan and Turkey but no Germany?

Okay...

China.

[high rws]

You have Pakistan and Turkey but no Germany?

Okay...

China.

Lol? germany is a shadow of it's former self. it's military is extremely limited

pakistan is a nuclear power, and turkeys military is just massive and very powerful

[Harpr33t]

Being a nuclear power doesn't do shit. Pakistan has gone to the dogs.
As for the UK and France they are declining in all of those fields (USA to a similar BUT smaller extent)
Russia is a mere Shadow of its former glory
China, India and Turkey are emerging powers. I would define them as regional powers since they lack the diplomatic persuasion and military power such as having a true blue water navy and expeditionary units.

I think you should have added Brazil to the list aswell.

[high rws]

Being a nuclear power doesn't do shit. Pakistan has gone to the dogs.
As for the UK and France they are declining in all of those fields (USA to a similar BUT smaller extent)
Russia is a mere Shadow of its former glory
China, India and Turkey are emerging powers. I would define them as regional powers since they lack the diplomatic persuasion and military power such as having a true blue water navy and expeditionary units.

I think you should have added Brazil to the list aswell.

i was thinking about brazil, but it's really not THAT powerful to be ranked among these big guys

[Korean Ninja]

USA is shit lol
this countrys going to shit, possibly its not even the strongest country anymore

BTW... really nice of you to leave out some other countries like Germany
and wtf... North Korea (yes i voted for it) but come on....


EDIT: can i change my vote to france?

[Bullet Wound]

Lol? germany is a shadow of it's former self. it's military is extremely limited

pakistan is a nuclear power, and turkeys military is just massive and very powerful

Military isn't the only thing needed to be considered a strong country?

[Lux]

what do you mean by "Well, it's Eastern Europe.....not really"?

Well, it's Eastern Europe......not really?

I think you're taking it a bit out of proportion i.e. the greatest ever? Yeah....that does have something to do with Eastern Europe as well...

[high rws]

USA is shit lol
this countrys going to shit, possibly its not even the strongest country anymore

BTW... really nice of you to leave out some other countries like Germany
and wtf... North Korea (yes i voted for it) but come on....


EDIT: can i change my vote to france?

north korea is the most militarized nation in the world ROFL, it's doing pretty amazing in a military sense considering that it's isolated

[high rws]

Military isn't the only thing needed to be considered a strong country?

i never said that, although military is certainly one major factor. if world war 3 broke out germany wouldn't be able to hold its ground for long.

look at nazi germany. it was the perfect war machine, the power and potential of the germans is obviously unlimited, no country could attack them and win single-handedly.

the reason i left germany off the list is because it also brings up questions of bringing other countries such as Italy and Brazil being in this. They are certainly strong, but not that strong. Germany has like 150K active personnel with a large navy and airforce. However, when you compare Germany to a country like Turkey, you have 150K active personnel compared to 600k+. not to mention turkeys massive airforce and navy. It's no competition, idk why you would ever question turkey being on the list?

[high rws]

Well, it's Eastern Europe......not really?

I think you're taking it a bit out of proportion i.e. the greatest ever? Yeah....that does have something to do with Eastern Europe as well...

i really don't see what you are getting at lol, enlighten me

[Lux]

i really don't see what you are getting at lol, enlighten me

Taking the lack of competition into consideration it wasn't a surprise. They could literally walk into most of those countries and plant their flag down.

Some of the countries were a core part of Russia/USSR for generally a long time and only recently split..

[Eldest]

China > All

[Lux]

For example Albania...Estonia was very easy, they love Communism.

Right Eldest? ^_^

[high rws]

Taking the lack of competition into consideration it wasn't a surprise. They could literally walk into most of those countries and plant their flag down.

Some of the countries were a core part of Russia/USSR for generally a long time and only recently split..

lol you have to take into account that eastern europe was already instable, with civil wars and poverty. if it was united and stable like today, eastern europe > russia

[Lux]

lol you have to take into account that eastern europe was already instable, with civil wars and poverty. if it was united and stable like today, eastern europe > russia

Er....exactly.....

Though without any intervention Russia would still plough through Eastern Europe probably.

[high rws]

Er....exactly.....

Though without any intervention Russia would still plough through Eastern Europe probably.

not really, for one many eastern euro countries are updating their military, and joining NATO

[Metal]

The hell is Canada......

[high rws]

The hell is Canada......

no..just

no

[A Loaf Pincher]

Antarctica.

No debt. Tourism income (+ Economic/Finance)
Inhabited by scientists and researchers (+ Education)
Penguin, Whale, Shark, Seal army. No enemies (+ Military power)
Featured in movies and tourists visit from time to time. Beautiful place. (+ Influence)
Colonization and building (+ Technology)
Motherfucking cold (- Health)

My argument is valid.



















Problem? lol

[high rws]

Antarctica.

No debt. Tourism income (+ Economic/Finance)
Inhabited by scientists and researchers (+ Education)
Penguin, Whale, Shark, Seal army. No enemies (+ Military power)
Featured in movies and tourists visit from time to time. Beautiful place. (+ Influence)
Colonization and building (+ Technology)
Motherfucking cold (- Health)

My argument is valid.



















Problem? lol

i have no idea why i didn't add fucking antartica to the list. you are so right

[Nasu]

Finland.

[Korean Ninja]

north korea is the most militarized nation in the world ROFL, it's doing pretty amazing in a military sense considering that it's isolated

military does not contribute to a strong nation... ud b amazed at ow far north korea falls behind in other basic citizen necessity like food or education... if u think military alone is going to make a country stronger, take the mongolian empire for example, a strong military with a terrible terrible government... if you think military alone factors then u r either high or stupid

[high rws]

military does not contribute to a strong nation... ud b amazed at ow far north korea falls behind in other basic citizen necessity like food or education... if u think military alone is going to make a country stronger, take the mongolian empire for example, a strong military with a terrible terrible government... if you think military alone factors then u r either high or stupid

"military does not contribute to a strong nation"
"mongolian empire" -> "government"
"high or stupid"

the mongol empire was governed by chieftans aka khans, i hardly call that organized government

i expected more of you..

[Octa]

Pakistan. Fuck yeah.

[Ultramarine]

long post..

well obviously russia is going to be corrupt to a point today, and you basically just stated things that i already knew. look at ww2, russia lost 10 million soldiers.


Around 24 million actually.

[PotshotPolka]

Around 24 million actually.

Well, more like 40 million, since everyone was technically conscripted so they all counted as soldiers, lol.

[Bullet Wound]

i never said that, although military is certainly one major factor. if world war 3 broke out germany wouldn't be able to hold its ground for long.

look at nazi germany. it was the perfect war machine, the power and potential of the germans is obviously unlimited, no country could attack them and win single-handedly.

the reason i left germany off the list is because it also brings up questions of bringing other countries such as Italy and Brazil being in this. They are certainly strong, but not that strong. Germany has like 150K active personnel with a large navy and airforce. However, when you compare Germany to a country like Turkey, you have 150K active personnel compared to 600k+. not to mention turkeys massive airforce and navy. It's no competition, idk why you would ever question turkey being on the list?

Admit military isn't the only factor in deciding power.

Only use military as a factor in deciding power.

lol

[Hiphopopotomus]

That model wouldn't work now though, they were nomads, we are fat people who watch TV all day.

Forgot to quote Albania.

[high rws]

Admit military isn't the only factor in deciding power.

Only use military as a factor in deciding power.

lol

because how does education or health etc come into it when war breaks out? then it's all based off of military

[Bullet Wound]

And by strongest, i mean by military power, economic power/growth, influence, education, health, technology, etc.

this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why.



because how does education or health etc come into it when war breaks out? then it's all based off of military

Way to contradict yourself.

Strongest country involves more than just a military, and so far you've only supported the countries in the list because of their military. You also never made any claims of this being about what country would be strongest in a war, so a war breaking out is irrelevant.

[Korean Ninja]

because how does education or health etc come into it when war breaks out? then it's all based off of military

military alone doesnt make a country powerful.... military can be run by unexperienced farmers
the strongest country depends on multiple factors OTHER THAN the military

[Korean Ninja]

OH AND
if u think military number alone is strongest country... y leave out south korea???
japan has a small defense force YET it has some of the most advanced fighting technologies in the world... numbers doesnt factor in the strongest country because numbers dont win the war its strategy

[high rws]

because how does education or health etc come into it when war breaks out? then it's all based off of military


Way to contradict yourself.

Strongest country involves more than just a military, and so far you've only supported the countries in the list because of their military. You also never made any claims of this being about what country would be strongest in a war, so a war breaking out is irrelevant.


because how does education or health etc come into it when war breaks out? then it's all based off of military


Way to contradict yourself.

Strongest country involves more than just a military, and so far you've only supported the countries in the list because of their military. You also never made any claims of this being about what country would be strongest in a war, so a war breaking out is irrelevant.

.......

i never said the factors were not important. I said WHEN WAR BREAKS OUT the factors become unimportant and military is the deciding factor.

"so far you've only supported the countries in the list because of their military." Umm no, that's actually total bullshit. look at my reply to polkashot about Russia, and you can clearly see i stated many factors other than military.

the reason i brought up countries holding their ground in war is because people were questioning me for not adding germany, finland, etc. in an all out war scenario, neither germany or finland could hold their ground. while they are still extremely developed countries, their military is an outlier.

[high rws]

military alone doesnt make a country powerful.... military can be run by unexperienced farmers
the strongest country depends on multiple factors OTHER THAN the military

WHEN
WAR
BREAKS
OUT

[high rws]

OH AND
if u think military number alone is strongest country... y leave out south korea???
japan has a small defense force YET it has some of the most advanced fighting technologies in the world... numbers doesnt factor in the strongest country because numbers dont win the war its strategy

numbers don't win wars? i beg to differ. if it was all about strategy, ww2 would of ended quickly and 60 million people wouldn't have died

[Drox]

numbers don't win wars? i beg to differ. if it was all about strategy, ww2 would of ended quickly and 60 million people wouldn't have died

You can't compare WW2 era to today, today wars are very technology based. Strategy only goes so far when I can guide a missile into your home or base from my computer chair 1,000 miles away in a AF base. lol If it was a head to head battle (Maybe a WW3 kind of thing or just 2 super powers) then you might see strategy matter a lot in huge numbers of armies facing off at once. However the likeliness of a world war nowadays not ending in a nuclear holocaust would be amazing, so in the end strategy wouldn't mean much with weapons like that on the sidelines. lol

[Bullet Wound]

.......

i never said the factors were not important. I said WHEN WAR BREAKS OUT the factors become unimportant and military is the deciding factor.

"so far you've only supported the countries in the list because of their military." Umm no, that's actually total bullshit. look at my reply to polkashot about Russia, and you can clearly see i stated many factors other than military.

the reason i brought up countries holding their ground in war is because people were questioning me for not adding germany, finland, etc. in an all out war scenario, neither germany or finland could hold their ground. while they are still extremely developed countries, their military is an outlier.

Nobody questioned you under the assumption there was an all out war scenario. You were the one who randomly decided that we were referring to an all out war scenario.

So, to make things clear. In a non-all out war scenario, why is Germany not considered a powerful country?

[Lux]

Take a chill pill O_o

[high rws]

Take a chill pill O_o

i wasn't mad lol i was just trying to get my point across

[high rws]

Nobody questioned you under the assumption there was an all out war scenario. You were the one who randomly decided that we were referring to an all out war scenario.

So, to make things clear. In a non-all out war scenario, why is Germany not considered a powerful country?

yes, it's a powerful country during peacetime. however i clearly stated and put an emphasis on military power. so during peacetime germany is strong, but when a war breaks out it couldn't hold it's ground. thats why i didn't add it to the list.

i'll give you an example of why i added India. India has the 10th largest economy in the world, with the worlds second largest labor force. more and more companies and corporations moving there from the western world. even with 1.2 billion people, india is probably in the top 10 most developed countries in the world..not to mention it's a nuclear power.

[Tweezy]

This is what's wrong with our culture nowadays, instead of "Worlds Strongest Country" why do we have to be so closed-minded and actually try to work out a United Planet. I know it's not going to happen any time soon, but just imagine it, a world where no passports will be needed, a world when tomorrow you could say "I fancy living in ...." with no immigration issues.

Just think, a world that is united.

Anyway, I don't really think any Country is the strongest, some Countries may have the largest Army, but other Countries have better economics. It all comes down to one thing though;

Will the population follow one mans/womens orders?

[Korean Ninja]

yes, it's a powerful country during peacetime. however i clearly stated and put an emphasis on military power. so during peacetime germany is strong, but when a war breaks out it couldn't hold it's ground. thats why i didn't add it to the list.i'll give you an example of why i added India. India has the 10th largest economy in the world, with the worlds second largest labor force. more and more companies and corporations moving there from the western world. even with 1.2 billion people, india is probably in the top 10 most developed countries in the world..not to mention it's a nuclear power.

how would u no that?

[high rws]

This is what's wrong with our culture nowadays, instead of "Worlds Strongest Country" why do we have to be so closed-minded and actually try to work out a United Planet. I know it's not going to happen any time soon, but just imagine it, a world where no passports will be needed, a world when tomorrow you could say "I fancy living in ...." with no immigration issues.

Just think, a world that is united.

Anyway, I don't really think any Country is the strongest, some Countries may have the largest Army, but other Countries have better economics. It all comes down to one thing though;

Will the population follow one mans/womens orders?

well a noble idea indeed, but never going to happen

[high rws]

how would u no that?

because there are other massive and much more powerful militarized countries..

germany today is a shadow of nazi germany

[Harpr33t]

i'll give you an example of why i added India. India has the 10th largest economy in the world, with the worlds second largest labor force. more and more companies and corporations moving there from the western world. even with 1.2 billion people, india is probably in the top 10 most developed countries in the world..not to mention it's a nuclear power.

India sadly is still underdeveloped with states still facing blackouts and unpaved roads. The only thing holding it back these past 10 years is corruption and being pussy.

[(von dutch) delta force 8]

1. Germany wouldn't be wiped out just like that because the European Union would step in and I'm sure France and England would step albeit for the sake of trade.

2. I'd see a country like Turkey or India crumble from within due to massive unhappiness and general instability

3. There is no such thing as the strongest country anymore. It has become more like a teamplay kinda game
one country has a nice position, one country has a good economy to support the others. one country airforce etcetera.

[skitzophranic]

1. China
JlkLhVo3PbY

and then 2. India
Mostly because China and India are pretty much the smartest countries education, health, and technology wise. And pretty much eberything else. And if China and India paired up together to fuck up some other country, they'd fuck it up hard. cause it's all aboot the tactics. :b
and you never see a Chinese or Indian person working in McDonalds or some shit like that. They're gonna be in a major company runnin' the shit like no other. But if you have seen an Indian or Chinese working at McDonalds (because I haven't) then I stand corrected.

[high rws]

1. China
JlkLhVo3PbY

and then 2. India
Mostly because China and India are pretty much the smartest countries education, health, and technology wise. And pretty much eberything else. And if China and India paired up together to fuck up some other country, they'd fuck it up hard. cause it's all aboot the tactics. :b
and you never see a Chinese or Indian person working in McDonalds or some shit like that. They're gonna be in a major company runnin' the shit like no other. But if you have seen an Indian or Chinese working at McDonalds (because I haven't) then I stand corrected.

interesting video lol, not too long until that happens

[Drox]

1. China
JlkLhVo3PbY

lol holy fear monger propaganda, that's about as worse as the republican china ad I've seen on tv. Hell, honestly if China can bring jobs to the US then it probably wouldn't be so bad to work for them. :P

[high rws]

my history teacher told me that they were trying out capitalism in certain parts of china, can anyone confirm this?

[Harpr33t]

The thing about India is because of it's large workforce that is diversified in terms of manufacturing and information technology it's GDP will probably rise in a steady rate but China which is mostly a manufacturing hub will decline as soon as majority of its population becomes old..unless they spread out to other things.

Havok, Indians don't really care about Pakistan unless they send one of their jihadist across the border..
http://www.time.com/time/2002/kashmir/images/militarystats.gif
This pic is old but either way we have the conventional superiority.
-What the US has to watch out for is Russia China India turning the SCO into an anti Nato block.

To what Skitzo said, sadly there are Indians working in McDonald's and those are the ones from rural villages that really don't have a college degree.

And to what Albania said... Hong Kong..

[Drox]

And to what Albania said... Hong Kong..

For all practical purposes, Hong Kong is actually a separate country to China. Yes China is playing around with the idea of capitalism since it has to compete with the free market business of today's world.

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

And by strongest, i mean by military power, economic power/growth, influence, education, health, technology, etc.

this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why.

my vote is Russia

i say this because of it's massive influence throughout history. For example, at one point literally all of eastern europe was either annexed into the Soviet Union or a soviet satellite state, excluding Greece. It takes a lot of military strength and ideological power to force THAT many countries into your alliance.

something the USA could never do.

If you are talking about the current world, there is absolutely no comparison to the USA. And its not because of any economic or military factors. The United States is the absolute, completely unquestioned cultural leader of the world. No country can even come close to the level of cultural influence that the United States has over the world, and that is the reason why the USA is on top. Not because it has a better military or economy, but simply because the United States has esentially dominated the world with its culture. People often forget about Culture because it is not as physical as military or Economic power, but Cultural power has essentially given the United States a "soft empire" that envelops the whole world, from the popularity of iPods and Nike shoes in Iran, to prevelance of Coca-Cola in Brazil and the 850 McDonald's restaurants in China.

If you are talking about in terms of all of history, then the unquestionable winner would be the Mongolian Empire, for essentially taking over all of Asia, the Middle East and some of Europe.

[HZK]

If you are talking about the current world, there is absolutely no comparison to the USA. And its not because of any economic or military factors. The United States is the absolute, completely unquestioned cultural leader of the world. No country can even come close to the level of cultural influence that the United States has over the world, and that is the reason why the USA is on top. Not because it has a better military or economy, but simply because the United States has esentially dominated the world with its culture. People often forget about Culture because it is not as physical as military or Economic power, but Cultural power has essentially given the United States a "soft empire" that envelops the whole world, from the popularity of iPods and Nike shoes in Iran, to prevelance of Coca-Cola in Brazil and the 850 McDonald's restaurants in China.


The examples you gave are for independent businesses, they may be American based but they don't fully contribute to the power of a country. And also you can counter those examples using exports from other countries(like China) or products from other countires(like Germany).

But in my own opinion I think that every country is dependent on the rest of the world to contribute to stay strong and stable, you can't really say that a single Nation is far stronger than others in the way of power and money; you can say that it has a large influence, however.

[high rws]

The examples you gave are for independent businesses, they may be American based but they don't fully contribute to the power of a country. And also you can counter those examples using exports from other countries(like China) or products from other countires(like Germany).

But in my own opinion I think that every country is dependent on the rest of the world to contribute to stay strong and stable, you can't really say that a single Nation is far stronger than others in the way of power and money; you can say that it has a large influence, however.

well really every super power is dependent on the world. this is why i put north korea on the list: it's not doing "well" because it has starvation, corruption, etc, however it is also isolated and dependent on virtually no one.

[high rws]

And as a result it is a dying and unsecure regime.
well obviously it's degrading now, it's like one person with no friends (n. korea) fighting a gang (the rest of the world)

you surely have to admit how they acquired working nuclear weapons was impressive?

[high rws]

Not really, they probably got them through Pakistan or some other similar country.

The fact they have nuclear weapons is really irrelevent, just like nearly all the other nuclear nations (can't think of any reason for an exception off the top of my head but there's probably a few minor ones).

well give me a real reason and hopefully i can make a reply, i don't see what you're getting at

[high rws]

Real reason as to why North Korea having nuclear weapons isn't impressive or why nuclear weapons are irrelevent?

"just like nearly all the other nuclear nations (can't think of any reason for an exception off the top of my head but there's probably a few minor ones)."

i don't really see what you're getting at

[PotshotPolka]

Nukes are big, glowing, absurdly expensive poker chips.

[HZK]

Nukes are giant dicks.

[*Queen VenomousFate*]

"Culture" or globalisation and market power as you describe it has little to do with the power of a nation, it just shows that one is prosperous enough for others to want its or similar private enterprise. Really it says more about the rest of the world compared to the US (or just "the west", since TNCs aren't only restricted to the US).

People don't use it as a gauge because it's a silly one to use in the first place.

Also, I don't understand why people have such a hardon for the Mongolian Empire nowadays. Are you just tired of admitting the British was superior?

Civilization IV thought culture was important enough to make it one victory option lol :)

Also, in the example I used I stuck strictly to business enterprises, however the cultural power of the United States can be seen in more political ways as well, such as with the influence on the United State's consitution on the founding documents of other countries. Undoubtedly a lot of the political influence of the United States can be traced back to the British, but the United States was the new country that showed it could work. It can also be seen in more purely cultural ways such as through the popularity of Hollywood movies and US music abroad.

People hate on culture because it is something that can't be physically measured in terms of numbers or seen as clearly, and the power cant be harnessed by the government, it is it's own force. When your relatively new culture is strong enough to erode at the culture of other much older nations, who are far more steeped in tradation (Like China or France), you cannot claim that this is not true power.

The British Empire was fine and dandy, however the British Empire was rather piecemeal, whereas the Mongolian Empire was a single continuous entity. Also, the Mongolian Empire made cultural and political contributions the areas of the world such as the Middle East that could never be matched by the British, who essentially are totally responsible for the conflict on the Indian sub-Continent, and its other fromer protectorates.

[PotshotPolka]

Also, how can you possibly suggest that the British Empire not only didn't spread culture and politics but also only "caused problems"?

Because brown and black peoples obviously only became aware of sectarian violence after white folk showed up.


If anything should be blamed on colonialism ignoring pros, it should be the borders they drew up after pulling out.

[Im a Jackass]

lol at France getting 0

[Cryptex]

US kind of sucks in the education department plus our economy isn't doing too great. Although since the US spends more money in it's military than anything else they do walk away on top in that department. It's just really hard to choose adding up all these stats, if we did each one at a time by military, health, education, ect. It would be a lot easier, but I guess I'll be bias and say the US. lol

Yeah that makes sense. I'd have to go with UK, they really are doing great at the moment. No wars, No worries. They tend to stick to themselves and when messed it they tactically plan their assault. They are doing good Atm and I'm going with them.

THEY ALSO HAVE COOKIES!

[sebak]

if us and china had a nuclear war. china would prly survive it.

[James]

if us and china had a nuclear war. china would prly survive it.

I highly doubt ANY country would survive/recover from the fallout resulting from nuclear weaponry, no matter how prepared they were. Obviously the incident at Chernobyl was not the same as a nuclear bomb detonating, but in either case, the effects on the environment/wildlife/human settlements would be extreme.

On topic, it's a tough choice, but it would probably be America. Of course, the U.S. has the most advanced military technology in the world. However, economically at the moment it is of course struggling with massive debts due to overspending on war efforts for example.

[DJ Spinderella]

If it's not China yet its going to be at this rate. China's GDP is increasing more and more, as countries such as the U.S. have failed to make any progress. China has the fastest growing economy, it is the worlds largest manufacturer, and its a superior importer and exporter. Also, China's intelligence surpasses all other major powers in the world, particularly in math & science. China's military may fall behind Russia's and America's, but its still up there. The U.S. could be the most powerful at the moment, but that probably won't last much longer.

[Drox]

If it's not China yet its going to be at this rate. China's GDP is increasing more and more, as countries such as the U.S. have failed to make any progress. China has the fastest growing economy, it is the worlds largest manufacturer, and its a superior importer and exporter. Also, China's intelligence surpasses all other major powers in the world, particularly in math & science. China's military may fall behind Russia's and America's, but its still up there. The U.S. could be the most powerful at the moment, but that probably won't last much longer.

Where is this magical china theory being taught to people. lol China isn't well off as most think, they are in just as deep shit as the rest of us. I actually remember watching a documentary about how China build a whole city no one lived in just to keep their GDP up. So I don't think China is the prime example of how you want to run a country, China is pretty much taking the same bite out of the shit sammich that we're all biting. lol

[Eskomo]

Canada, hands down. And my opinion is not biased.

[Harpr33t]

Where is this magical china theory being taught to people. lol China isn't well off as most think, they are in just as deep shit as the rest of us. I actually remember watching a documentary about how China build a whole city no one lived in just to keep their GDP up. So I don't think China is the prime example of how you want to run a country, China is pretty much taking the same bite out of the shit sammich that we're all biting. lol

This true, china is too heavily relied on manufacturing and this is gonna slow down sooner or later. Also they have multiple cities that are empty because no one can afford to live in them.

[DJ Spinderella]

Where is this magical china theory being taught to people. lol China isn't well off as most think, they are in just as deep shit as the rest of us. I actually remember watching a documentary about how China build a whole city no one lived in just to keep their GDP up. So I don't think China is the prime example of how you want to run a country, China is pretty much taking the same bite out of the shit sammich that we're all biting. lol

You're right, the whole world is in the shitter right now, but China is the only country that seems to be having relatively positive growth across the board. I never said China was a model Country, because they aren't by any means, in fact its a mostly a horrible (and expensive) place to live in. You're probably right that I'm overestimating China's growth, but they could be doing a lot worse right now and I think the world should think twice before it belittles China.

[Drox]

You're right, the whole world is in the shitter right now, but China is the only country that seems to be having relatively positive growth across the board. I never said China was a model Country, because they aren't by any means, in fact its a mostly a horrible (and expensive) place to live in. You're probably right that I'm overestimating China's growth, but they could be doing a lot worse right now and I think the world should think twice before it belittles China.

Apparently no one belittles China, since almost everyone is convince they are in position to somehow take over the world. lol

[SgtJoo]

Yeah that makes sense. I'd have to go with UK, they really are doing great at the moment. No wars, No worries. They tend to stick to themselves and when messed it they tactically plan their assault. They are doing good Atm and I'm going with them.

THEY ALSO HAVE COOKIES!

Them riots bro

[DJ Spinderella]

Apparently no one belittles China, since almost everyone is convince they are in position to somehow take over the world. lol

lol, ok so you've got a point there. Maybe China's future projections have been exaggerated a bit, but god dammit I still think its A LITTLE concerning. lol

[Lucid]

If USA fights in China, China wins. If China fights in USA, USA wins.

/thread

[IntenseFajita]

Love how nobody picked France. I said China because they make all of USA's shit, and our economy is down on it's knees, but military-wise, America probably has the best military structure.

[high rws]

If USA fights in China, China wins. If China fights in USA, USA wins.

/thread

since when was this a china vs usa thread?

[Bullet Wound]

Love how nobody picked France. I said China because they make all of USA's shit, and our economy is down on it's knees, but military-wise, America probably has the best military structure.

They spend literally as much money on military as the rest of the world combined. Frankly it would be sad if they didn't have the best one.

[Harpr33t]

China just launched its first aircraft carrier today and announced it would make 3 more.

[Tweezy]

China just launched its first aircraft carrier today and announced it would make 3 more.
Hmmm, anyone else feeling a little weird about this?

[Drox]

Hmmm, anyone else feeling a little weird about this?

Not really, personally I hope the US falls from super power status and lets China take over. It's been draining our resources for decades to be some kind of world police force.

US vs China will never happen btw, 2 huge armies facing off like I said in a previous post just won't happen in this day and age. The cold war is a prime example of how 2 super powers would face off, a game of chess and a lot of bluffs.

[Tweezy]

Not really, personally I hope the US falls from super power status and lets China take over. It's been draining our resources for decades to be some kind of world police force.

Then stop jumping into all wars possible :P It results in the UK following you in...

Another thing, we all know where the US stands, China new movements are, well new. They may say they stand with us, but what would really happen if they became the dominant super power?

[Drox]

Then stop jumping into all wars possible :P It results in the UK following you in...

If the American people had thier way, we would have been out of the middle east years ago. However, anyone who says anything about stopping war is somehow a nut to the mainstream (Like Ron Paul although now a lot of politicians are jumping on his boat since most voters feel he has the right idea). Sadly democracy in the US is like democracy in a food line. You pick only what is given to you, and to suggest some real change is blasphemy if it doesn't coincide with mainstream politics.

[HZK]

If the American people had thier way, we would have been out of the middle east years ago. However, anyone who says anything about stopping war is somehow a nut to the mainstream (Like Ron Paul although now a lot of politicians are jumping on his boat since most voters feel he has the right idea). Sadly democracy in the US is like democracy in a food line. You pick only what is given to you, and to suggest some real change is blasphemy if it doesn't coincide with mainstream politics.

Both politicians and the overall public would take it to an extreme, if the people got their way(by majority) then the country would be worse off: everyone knows that if someone has zero knowledge about politics, world affairs, etc then they would just go along with the idea that sounds morally right; not looking at(or knowing about) the after effects. Then those with full knowledge and management skill would then have their own word and it will just lead back to democracy, with only a few controlling the country and everyone else left to choose from limited options.

If the people didn't get any say(except for votes) then the politicians would do whatever they can to get resources and power(like oil) into the country. Some people wouldn't like their methods so in the next election another party would get voted in, then another group of people don't like what's going on and it cycles over and over. Countries may say that they are advancing: in their own right, yes; in the world standings? Not much.

The public is too fickle so even if a real change is positive and helps the country, then propaganda, ignorance and campaigns can eventually stop it. Politicians do want to help but they want their own names too, so if the initial idea sustains, something will influence that, good or bad, and then it will develop in another debatable subject. Much later on.

[Drox]

What exactly are you replying to in my quote? I don't need a lesson in politics, nor did anything you said really disprove what I said or challenge it. So are you replying just to reply? lol I will reply to one thing you mentioned though;


Both politicians and the overall public would take it to an extreme, if the people got their way(by majority) then the country would be worse off:

I'm assuming this was referring to my middle east comment, how is getting out of the middle east gonna make our country worse off? Spending trillions of dollars to defend and re-build countries that will eventually turn on us in the long run, seems like the right idea. How stupid of those Americans that want to end the 10 years of war that is helping bankrupt our country, they obviously don't know politics. lol

I think you're belittling the public too much, if anything most people know our government has been fucking up quite a bit. Even if they know nothing of politics, when it starts effecting the public directly then they will and have noticed it. lol

[HZK]

I'm commenting, but my first point was the only one clearly valid to the quote :P

[Drox]

I'm commenting, but my first point was the only one clearly valid to the quote :P

ahh ok lol

[Drox]

Sorry, I'm going to have to pick you up on this, but it wasn't even that.

The most that was done was installing governments in random places of the world and spreading lies about the other side.

The most significant events in the entire time frame were probably dangerous accidents/near accidents (that submarine thing or w/e it was, the Berlin standoff and undoubtedly many other things).

The Cold War is a terrible example of two superpowers in potential/actual conflict.


Also, as has already been said: China will never develop to the power the US has/had. It's very similar to the Soviet Union in many ways - and it will end up in the same way.

I didn't mean exactly the same, thus why I named 2 examples of what I meant "Bluffing and chess moves". All out war is unlikely unless someone makes that first move to conflict was mostly my point.

[high rws]

Sorry, I'm going to have to pick you up on this, but it wasn't even that.

The most that was done was installing governments in random places of the world and spreading lies about the other side.

The most significant events in the entire time frame were probably dangerous accidents/near accidents (that submarine thing or w/e it was, the Berlin standoff and undoubtedly many other things).

The Cold War is a terrible example of two superpowers in potential/actual conflict.


Also, as has already been said: China will never develop to the power the US has/had. It's very similar to the Soviet Union in many ways - and it will end up in the same way.

i want to say something pertaining to your post. there is this interesting book called "the end of history" by francis fukuyama [made after the fall of communism in eastern europe] that states that no major government revolutions will ever occur in the future, and capitalism/free market economy is the final government. if you're interested he makes some interesting points [theres a wikipedia page on it].

so, francis made that book in 1992 probably expecting china to fall as well, however in 2011 china is still going strong. especially for a communist country with 1billion+ people. i think that says something

[high rws]

double post sorry, disregard this

[high rws]

USA USA USA

"this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why"

[high rws]

China isn't a communist country, though. Das ist nicht der kommunismus.

It's also allowing limited capitalism (pretty much in the form of the NEP) now.

Also, I don't believe that capitalism being the "final" form of government makes any sense. Believe it or not, capitalism has already had the height of its power politically a couple of hundred years ago.

Also x2, define "major government revolutions."

There have been plenty since 1992, but if he's using that qualifier then he can just disregard most as apparently "insignificant."

i don't speak german but i managed to wiggle out "the is not the communism"? what do you mean by that?

maybe what i said wasn't exactly clear because it was out of memory. i quote from francis fukuyama: "What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: that is, the end point of mankind's ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government."

[high rws]

Something Marx apparently said about Soviet regimes.

Despite the end of ideologies, I don't believe that liberal democracy is the last form of government - and if it is then it's not a very good one.

It's a good model for a free society but it's open to abuse from consumerism.

well capitalism and communism will always have their faults. anyways he is a very intelligent man and does make a lot of hoof points that many agree with; however he is criticized greatly. so only time will tell i suppose

[Psyche]

north korea

[high rws]

north korea

"this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why."

[Saleac]

"this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why."

South Korea because without them we might not have Korean Ninja

[Tweezy]

South Korea because without them we might not have Korean Ninja

Looks like another person who won't be along much longer... This is the political forum, not offtopic...

[high rws]

Looks like another person who won't be along much longer... This is the political forum, not offtopic...

lol i already flagged him like 80 times hopefully AO or something comes along

[Jizzy]

The Netherlands

[high rws]

The Netherlands

this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why

[Psyche]

"this is a serious topic. don't post a country just because it's YOUR country, give a legitimate reason why."
north korea is the best because it is one of the happiest countries in the world only second to China.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/Jessica%20Colwell/north-koreas-happiness-index1.jpg

look at the US with only 3 happiness points.

[sebak]

Canada :troll:


k, USA atm but i dont think it will be the grestest super power in the next few years.

[high rws]

north korea is the best because it is one of the happiest countries in the world only second to China.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/Jessica%20Colwell/north-koreas-happiness-index1.jpg

look at the US with only 3 happiness points.

your trolling gets very annoying after a while

[Tweezy]

north korea is the best because it is one of the happiest countries in the world only second to China.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/Jessica%20Colwell/north-koreas-happiness-index1.jpg

look at the US with only 3 happiness points.

I couldn't help but laugh, but seriously, this is the political forum... Post with seriousness or not at all.

[Harpr33t]

USA will dominate for the next 50 years. But after that... China, India, Russia, Brazil.

[SexualHarassmentPanda]

I agree, the debt ceiling won't last forever. When they default on that shit we're fucked. Thank god for dual citizenship. I shall return to the motherland when the time comes!

[Dead Eye]

I would say USA, however its education and economic state takes a big hit on it. China or Russia would probably be next in line. But each country has their own pros and cons, like for instance Israel has the best air force in the world, cons they are constantly at war.

[Revolution18]

I can't even believe North Korea is even an option.

[high rws]

I can't even believe North Korea is even an option.

"North Korea is the most militarized country in the world today,[6] having the fourth largest army in the world, at about 1,106,000 armed personnel, with about 20% of men ages 17–54 in the regular armed forces.[7] Military service of up to 10 years is mandatory for most males. It also has a reserve force comprising 8,200,000 personnel. It operates an enormous network of military facilities scattered around the country, a large weapons production basis, a dense air defense system, the third largest chemical weapons stockpile in the world,[8] and includes the world's largest Special Forces contingent (numbering 180,000 men).[9]"

[harro]

North Korea may be the most militarized country, but it does not have the resources to deploy their troops to a foreign area and keep them sustained there for a prolonged period of time without putting a huge dent in their country's economy.

[high rws]

North Korea may be the most militarized country, but it does not have the resources to deploy their troops to a foreign area and keep them sustained there for a prolonged period of time without putting a huge dent in their country's economy.

no country has the resources to deploy their troops to a foreign area and keep them sustained there for a prolonged period of time without putting a huge dent in their country's economy

[harro]

no country has the resources to deploy their troops to a foreign area and keep them sustained there for a prolonged period of time without putting a huge dent in their country's economy I can assure you that China can definitely throw most of their shit somewhere and sit there for a very long period of time. And when I say huge dent, I mean massive, as in their economy will crumble, due to the low amounts of exports they produce already.

[high rws]

I can assure you that China can definitely throw most of their shit somewhere and sit there for a very long period of time. And when I say huge dent, I mean massive, as in their economy will crumble, due to the low amounts of exports they produce already.

China is massively in debt lol

[Korean Ninja]

not as much as the US lol

[harro]

Almost every expanding country has a debt ceiling. China may be in debt, but a lot of countries are in debt to china.

[Revolution18]

even with all the biological and nuclear weapons they don't have a good way to fire them there missle egiens suck but still u make some very good points.

[Jaffa]

North korea has: Taep'o-dong 2 (TD-2) - North Korea (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/td-2.htm)

And if they don't come through, I'd expect they have access to old soviet/chinese missiles

[Harpr33t]

North korea has: Taep'o-dong 2 (TD-2) - North Korea (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/td-2.htm)

And if they don't come through, I'd expect they have access to old soviet/chinese missiles

Their missiles suck. They can't hit the US unless it's one of their bases in Asia.

[high rws]

Their missiles suck. They can't hit the US unless it's one of their bases in Asia.

who said they needed to hit the US?

[Harpr33t]

who said they needed to hit the US?
In order to be the strongest country in the world they would have to take out the US which is the strongest ?

[high rws]

In order to be the strongest country in the world they would have to take out the US which is the strongest ?

when did i state they were the strongest country?

[Im a Jackass]

I think France is the best by far

[Drox]

I think France is the best by far

At retreating.

[Harpr33t]

when did i state they were the strongest country?

When did I accuse you saying that?

[high rws]

When did I accuse you saying that?

your post made it seem that way..

[high rws]

I think France is the best by far

french national salute

http://i55.tinypic.com/2enyk4i.jpg



nah but in all seriousness, i read somewhere that france has the best war record in europe, can't confirm though

[Harpr33t]

Napoleon and thats it?

[Drox]

nah but in all seriousness, i read somewhere that france has the best war record in europe, can't confirm though

French military the war record best in Europe (?) in Off topic (non Total War discussions) Forum (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/61301#.To7vt5uAqU8)

Read thru that thread, they discussed it pretty well.

[Tweezy]

France only fell because of a gap in there line near Belgium. Also, France has the best war record in Europe... They owned us in the US.

[Harpr33t]

Here's a good site which is relevant to this thread

Global Firepower - 2011 World Military Strength Ranking (http://www.globalfirepower.com/)

[high rws]

Here's a good site which is relevant to this thread

Global Firepower - 2011 World Military Strength Ranking (http://www.globalfirepower.com/)

i've seen that before

honestly i thought it made sense up until about #11, and after that i seriously doubt it's valid

[harro]

i've seen that before

honestly i thought it made sense up until about #11, and after that i seriously doubt it's valid

It makes sense because it's talking about available firepower, not the actual strength of a country. It doesn't take account of the speed a country itself is able to militarize for war. I doubt Thailand would beat Canada in an actual war.

[Tweezy]

Here's a good site which is relevant to this thread

Global Firepower - 2011 World Military Strength Ranking (http://www.globalfirepower.com/)

Interesting, thought not very viable in an actual war, I doubt India would beat the UK! :P I doubt China would as well to be honest...

Actually, on another note, kinda weird Japan wasn't put on the poll :L

[Harpr33t]

Japan has defence forces, it's not a military in the conventional sense (though I think they may very recently have started peacekeeping operations).

World War 2 kinda put horrors into the minds of any Japanese soldier who left the borders of their own country.

The thing about Japan is their Constitution really limits their Armed Forces from carrying any kind of offensive capability. The only rel way they can attack another nation would be through converting their helicopter carriers into aircraft carriers for the new F35s


Interesting, thought not very viable in an actual war, I doubt India would beat the UK! :P I doubt China would as well to be honest...

Actually, on another note, kinda weird Japan wasn't put on the poll :L

It all depends where the war is really. Britain slashed it's budget while countries like India and China's are rising every year. I highly doubt the UK can take out 3000-5000 tanks with their own even if they are inferior.

[Harpr33t]

ehhh Chinese Tanks yes but as Indian tanks, they just either buy T-90s off the line or license make them. But both countries are slowly moving over to western themed designed which strive for crew protection over mobility.

Examples: Indian upgraded T-90s

http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=25611&stc=1&d=1218425404


Indian Designed "Arjun"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8LvsP-N8i0E/TVvPsm07hOI/AAAAAAAABrw/LnKiESOIv8g/s320/Advanced_Version_of_+MBT_Arjun_+Mark-II_.jpg

[Tweezy]

ehhh Chinese Tanks yes but as Indian tanks, they just either buy T-90s off the line or license make them. But both countries are slowly moving over to western themed designed which strive for crew protection over mobility.

Examples: Indian upgraded T-90s

http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=25611&stc=1&d=1218425404


Indian Designed "Arjun"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8LvsP-N8i0E/TVvPsm07hOI/AAAAAAAABrw/LnKiESOIv8g/s320/Advanced_Version_of_+MBT_Arjun_+Mark-II_.jpg

http://www.army.mod.uk/images/central-panel/challenger-2-for-equipment-.jpg

Still classed as the best tank in the world? (It's the Challenger 2 btw)

Saying that, South Korea have quite a awesome tank. K2 Black Panther. (http://armour.ws/k2-main-battle-tank-mbt/)But hey, if were going to talk about tanks we need to remember one thing;
Different tanks are better situated to different environments.

[Harpr33t]

That Indian tank uses the same gun as the Challenger :laugh:

Not to mention it's based off the Leopard 2 design which is the BEST Tank in the World. I still stand by my point that Britain or France wouldn't be able to be India or China in a war since both sides don't have good Expeditionary Forces or the means to conduct War overseas anymore.

[SilentGuns]

OPB70_3SNVg

Obviously .

[PotshotPolka]

It's not like they're likely to ever be used properly anyway.

It's a shame, but they're becoming less and less relevant.

I dunno, ask the Iraqis how irrelevant the Abrams was, then the militants who thought they could trolol with IEDs and RPGs. Battle records showed Abrams taking 10-15 rounds from HEAT RPGs, and at worse they'd have superficial damage or lose a tread. Sure, there are more surgical weapons out there, but parking a MBT somewhere is about as good as you get for area denial with an actual presence on the ground.

[Harpr33t]

I dunno, ask the Iraqis how irrelevant the Abrams was, then the militants who thought they could trolol with IEDs and RPGs. Battle records showed Abrams taking 10-15 rounds from HEAT RPGs, and at worse they'd have superficial damage or lose a tread. Sure, there are more surgical weapons out there, but parking a MBT somewhere is about as good as you get for area denial with an actual presence on the ground.

The Iraqi's also made a tactical mistake by using their tanks as self propelled guns and digging them in. They were just sitting ducks to the air power of the Coalition. The T-72 isn't a bad tank and could take out an Abrams if used by a well trained crew and upgraded equipment.

[PotshotPolka]

The Iraqi's also made a tactical mistake by using their tanks as self propelled guns and digging them in. They were just sitting ducks to the air power of the Coalition. The T-72 isn't a bad tank and could take out an Abrams if used by a well trained crew and upgraded equipment.

Tactics aren't irrelevant, but people were talking about quality of tanks. Until other countries start using DU-composite armor brimming with reflexive armor, I honestly don't see why the discussion is valid. Other tanks may have small edges in performance/upgrades (M1 is nearly 30 years old at its core), but so long as the Abrams has greater survivability and equal or greater round penetration (DU ammo isn't the norm in a lot of countries either) then it still wins the MBT prize.

[Tweezy]

The thing is with most modern tanks, it's going to be about who can get the first shot in...

[Jewpiter]

Always get a laugh from these young nationalists who project their cultural insecurities by taking cheap shots at the United States. Sad thing is they don't realize how many foreign troops our army trains.

This whole thread is a circle jerk and should be locked.

[PotshotPolka]

I ain't locking shit, I love bragging about how we sink trillions into blowing up shit better than everyone else.

[layerba714]

I think russia's economy is stable and growing , military - of course they wanted to go to war with the usa of course they were prepared

[DoctorEvil]

Albania is the strongest country! ;)