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A Loaf Pincher
27 Jul 2011, 02:57pm
I'm not entirely sure if this has been discussed in previous threads, or not even discussed at all.

I have just been noticing that many members have been complaining about players in our servers, in this case, Jail Break. Complaints about HLDJ, freekilling, racism, etc. It's not just in this server, but in many servers and there are different types of complaints for each one. Many players, including our own members and supporters have to contact an Admin, AO, BD, etc to do something about it.*

* I am not saying that higher ups are not doing their job.

By the time higher-ups are aware of the concern and go to the server with the complaint, the player who is breaking the rules would leave and escape, either changing their name and/or doing said complaint in other servers. This is a massive nuisance for the higher ups and members alike. We have to file a complaint (which takes a good while dealing with proof and such, or maybe I'm just slow.) or just wait until they decide to come back.

Regardless, it annoys me when non-SG members ask me to do something and I can't, allowing more rule-breakers and annoying players to come and go without any repercussions. This is why I'm suggesting a "kick" feature for members, but with that power comes requirements.

To be granted the "kick" feature is not a gift, but a privilege. It would require a "Supporter" status along with the 2 month membership to be dubbed a "Regular Gamer". This could be called what I've seen as "Admin Apprentice" or so. Perks like an admin, but same rights as any other member that isn't admin or higher. The status of both shows that the member is obviously a regular and knows the rules and regulations with our servers, along with the support and concern for our community by supporting Steamgamers. I have only been here a month, I think exactly to be honest, and I am not saying that gets implemented immediately. There are pros and cons to giving this feature.

Pros:

Warns off rule-breakers
Gives a bit of fighting chance
Earned to loyal/mature gamers*
Takes (some) pressure off of higher ups


Cons:

Abuse (obviously)
Player can rejoin immediately after kick
Takes (some) authority away from admins


Hopefully no trolls would be hiding for months just to be abused.

I would say maybe a 3-5 "kick" feature limit, to prevent kick spammers who want to abuse said given power. And if this is abused, a higher-up would take away his/her right to kick. If this power is abused amongst (hopefully not) all supporter/regular members, then the whole thing is taken away permanently.

I am just suggesting this because as a supporter dealing with this stuff, I feel sort of like a "middle-man" between the members and regs/hg/higher-ups.

Discuss it amongst yourselves and I would like to see Higher-Ups have input along with the other members.

Thank you.

P.S. Sorry for the essay format. It's just something I am suggesting.

Elfbarf
27 Jul 2011, 03:06pm
Never going to happen, too many randoms are going to buy Supporter and abuse it then bitch when we take it away from them.

Zaraki
27 Jul 2011, 03:07pm
Sorry No, i'm a supporter myself and i'm pretty convinced we should leave this to the selected people who are in line to actually 'lose' something.

And kicking a player won't get rid of him forever..

/thread

Just add the admins to your friends list and just ask them friendly..

Wicked Pissah
27 Jul 2011, 03:09pm
We have admins for a reason... for that kind of stuff.

Post a complaint and they (the rule breakers) will be dealt with.

Votekick... sweet a kid gets kicked and immediately rejoins.

Golden Shower
27 Jul 2011, 03:28pm
-snip-

A Loaf Pincher
27 Jul 2011, 03:31pm
I'm pretty sure he means those who are regulars and members. Not one or the other, but both.

Not sure if you guys knew it or not.

Close. This is what I stated.


It would require a "Supporter" status along with the 2 month membership to be dubbed a "Regular Gamer". This could be called what I've seen as "Admin Apprentice" or so...

The status of both shows that the member is obviously a regular and knows the rules and regulations with our servers, along with the support and concern for our community by supporting Steamgamers.

Veggie
27 Jul 2011, 03:41pm
Back when we had the admin recruits they were allowed to kick, the players figured out pretty fast that they can't ban and kicking became useless because they kept rejoining and raging, admin had to come in and handle it anyways.

ScubaToaster
27 Jul 2011, 03:52pm
Not to be rude but we have nearly 150 admins, I understand that we all live in different timezones etc. However with that many admins just add a few and most of us are online at one time or another. I understand recording a demo is tedious and not exactly exciting but it gets the job done if none of us can be reached!

It was an interesting idea none the less thought Loaf. =]

Korean Ninja
27 Jul 2011, 03:53pm
http://www.movies-wallpapers.net/Movies/Deja%20Vu/Deja%20Vu-01.jpg

A Loaf Pincher
27 Jul 2011, 04:24pm
Not to be rude but we have nearly 150 admins.

Well FUCK! If I had known that, then there would be no need for this.

I'll still leave it up for a while since it still a young thread.
(:

Zaraki
27 Jul 2011, 04:40pm
Not to be rude but we have nearly 150 admins, I understand that we all live in different timezones etc. However with that many admins just add a few and most of us are online at one time or another. I understand recording a demo is tedious and not exactly exciting but it gets the job done if none of us can be reached!

It was an interesting idea none the less thought Loaf. =]

150 with almost 50% playing Gmod, some playing minecraft, some playing tf2 and some playing other games..

3-4 active admins that want to listen to you...
Numbers don't mean shit scuba, it's been pointed out that in some times, there are NO admins online or playing.
And i'm sure we can't force them.

But i can understand what you meant by it :]

EDIT: Now that i think about it.. why won't we make a schedule and let you guys do shifts? That will be the best against these threads.

A Loaf Pincher
27 Jul 2011, 04:51pm
I mean, for example: I play Surf DM from time to time, probably more than I do MG now, and I find rule breakers and racism left and right but there's rarely an admin ever on there. They're either on Jail Break, Minigames, Deathrun or PERP.

If the feature was instituted, then we could clean up the servers a bit.

Maybe even give me admin for only Surf DM when I'm qualified and applications are open ;D
jk

Again, I'm not saying admins aren't doing their jobs, I just wish that more would be online and could respond when we needed the ban hammer or something.

I just hope you all are understanding the whole point of the thread. I'm weighing pros and cons, suggesting requirements, a limit to the feature, etc. I know I haven't stated everything, but it's all I have for now. That's why I leave it up to discussion.

sebak
27 Jul 2011, 05:28pm
50% playing gmod? lawl more like 99% i dont think ive seen ripperz in ze for a few days now. wtf twilight zone.

Drox
27 Jul 2011, 05:40pm
To be honest, it just wouldn't work. Giving supporters the ability to kick is like giving a monkey a handgun. If a supporter was trustworthy enough to have this ability, that supporter would have been made a admin by now or most likely in the future when we open admin apps again.

Votekick would be the same issue, supporters only voting wouldn't make sense (Since if there is only 1-2 supporters then it's a bias vote) so it would probably be a vote they only can start that everyone in the server can vote on. Which just screams to be abused, since majority will vote "yes" for the lulz of getting someone kicked.

The negatives outweigh the positives, if you need someone handled then add admins to your friends list, post a complaint, or do a shout out in cb. Giving a public group like supporters the ability such as kick, mute, ect just wouldn't work because anyone can be a supporter with a quick payment.

Im a Jackass
27 Jul 2011, 07:53pm
this has been talked about and it will never happen to many random people are buying sup just to get credits and this would be over used by people who want to just "joke" around and kick there friends for the fun of it. And to add to that people would kick just to open spots up for there friend.

Octa
28 Jul 2011, 01:30am
I think this guy is right. Clearly, all of the admins suck at their job. Give power to the people! Take down this hypocratic government that we call democracy! Let only the first-time players have the ability to ban, and give admin to everyone! Viva la rebellion!!!

Repus
28 Jul 2011, 05:33am
When we are talking about pb, there are alot butthurt people that go angry everytime they get "freekilled". There are crossfires, accidents and misunderstandings. Reason why admins lost their powers on pb was because of this.

Even still many admins use their powers too lightly, having just more people added to this is not so good idea. I usually forgive like 2-3 freekills on my self before I do anything.

So I would say that all the other servers it would be ok, but I believe it is hard if not impossible to do that and also there are people that want to ban people who annoy them; like little kids.


Also, how come I don't see that many rule breakers? I have banned like 2 people in 6 months.

BlackEagle
28 Jul 2011, 06:01am
I think this guy is right. Clearly, all of the admins suck at their job. Give power to the people! Take down this hypocratic government that we call democracy! Let only the first-time players have the ability to ban, and give admin to everyone! Viva la rebellion!!!

That wasn't really what he was saying in his suggestion. He was more along the lines of rule breakers being in the server and no admins around.

A. Wesker
28 Jul 2011, 09:30am
bad idea.

Castiel
28 Jul 2011, 10:13am
I like how you guys who call this a bad idea have so much better ones, because I've seen complaints go unanswered for days, and that's after you take the time to get sufficient proof, take a screenshot of the Steam ID, leave the game, come to the forums, post it, wait a week, then watch them maybe get banned.

themuffinman
28 Jul 2011, 10:38am
dont know if anyone has realized this, but merriman has pointed out quite a few flaws that really should be dealt with
yes there are many admins, but how many of them are actually active? i have about 20-30 admins in my friends list, and there is usually no more than 4-5 online, and usually they're not even in-game
i understand that his idea would Never work in PB because people(including sup/mem/regs) get butthurt Way to easily.
and for those of you that keep saying 'just demo/ss them and report them', but like merriman said above, thats tedious and time consuming, and for me, i usually wont do anything if i see someone breaking rules because i know that there is really no point in reporting them because it will take forever for something to be done, if anything

A Loaf Pincher
28 Jul 2011, 11:05am
At least the above two people understand the core of my point. Sure, PB, fine, I understand.
But anywhere else?

Maybe enable it in just 1 server as a test?

Drox
28 Jul 2011, 11:07am
I like how you guys who call this a bad idea have so much better ones, because I've seen complaints go unanswered for days, and that's after you take the time to get sufficient proof, take a screenshot of the Steam ID, leave the game, come to the forums, post it, wait a week, then watch them maybe get banned.

So whats your point here? How does giving supporters the ability to kick have anything to do with AO's handling complaints? This was mentioned if you wanted someone dealt with for breaking rules, giving supporters the ability to kick will just cause more problems than fixing any. Simple as that.

A Loaf Pincher
28 Jul 2011, 11:12am
Does anyone here understand that to get this privilege

YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE A SUPPORTER AND A REGULAR

For fucks sake read the entire message.

Castiel
28 Jul 2011, 11:17am
So whats your point here? How does giving supporters the ability to kick have anything to do with AO's handling complaints? This was mentioned if you wanted someone dealt with for breaking rules, giving supporters the ability to kick will just cause more problems than fixing any. Simple as that.

You're right, you are simple .. Player complaints go unread for days, especially when I complain about people on Surf DM. This is an attempt to fix that.

Drox
28 Jul 2011, 11:19am
Does anyone here understand that to get this privilege

YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE A SUPPORTER AND A REGULAR

For fucks sake read the entire message.

Few months isn't a long time. 90% of people who are already supporter probably have been in here this long. I've seen plenty of you so called supporters act up enough that I know that this is a stupid idea. Which I find funny that only supporters and below so far like this idea, I don't think one admin+ has agreed this would work. Want to know why? Because we have been here for years, even some admins can act foolish with power, what makes you think supporters should be given rights that even some admins can't handle?


You're right, you are simple .. Player complaints go unread for days, especially when I complain about people on Surf DM. This is an attempt to fix that.

This is a perfect example of why supporters shouldn't have admin, instead of being civil you try and insult someone when we are discussing something important. If you can't handle a simple conversation, why should we trust you with kicking power?

Castiel
28 Jul 2011, 11:22am
Few months isn't a long time. 90% of people who are already supporter probably have been in here this long. I've seen plenty of you so called supporters act up enough that I know that this is a stupid idea. Which I find funny that only supporters and below so far like this idea, I don't think one admin+ has agreed this would work. Want to know why? Because we have been here for years, even some admins can act foolish with power, what makes you think supporters should be given rights that even some admins can't handle?

Here, let me provide an example:

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/player-complaints/46471-master-complaint.html

This wallhacker took an AO FOUR DAYS to deal with. What could happen during those 4 days? Oh, right, driving the last few players off because he could keep coming back and making us realize that no one gives a fuck about the Surf DM server so hackers can hack all they want. This will be my last reply to your idiocy.

Drox
28 Jul 2011, 11:25am
Here, let me provide an example:

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/player-complaints/46471-master-complaint.html

This wallhacker took an AO FOUR DAYS to deal with. What could happen during those 4 days? Oh, right, driving the last few players off because he could keep coming back and making us realize that no one gives a fuck about the Surf DM server so hackers can hack all they want. This will be my last reply to your idiocy.

So because AO's take their time on complaints, supporters should have the ability to kick? lol Silly supporters, this guy is the main reason we will never give you kicking rights. :P

Chaoz`
28 Jul 2011, 11:28am
You're right, you are simple .. Player complaints go unread for days, especially when I complain about people on Surf DM. This is an attempt to fix that.

only some complaints take a while cuz there is sometimes a demo included and it takes some time to view it, cuz AO's are people aswell.

the racism complaints with screenshot get done faster cuz it's only a screenshot and such.

you are simple for thinking that this wouldn't get aboosed and people will start to complain and rage about it, in this community it would not work, too many trolls and such people who say "For Teh Lulz" and "herpderp" of it.

getting admin powers is a great responsibility, so if your application gets rejected it is for a reason, not cuz we don't like you.

it is cuz we think that they aren't ready for this power.



Here, let me provide an example:

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/player-complaints/46471-master-complaint.html

This wallhacker took an AO FOUR DAYS to deal with. What could happen during those 4 days? Oh, right, driving the last few players off because he could keep coming back and making us realize that no one gives a fuck about the Surf DM server so hackers can hack all they want. This will be my last reply to your idiocy.

add an admin to your friendslist who is online most of the time, like me for example, i'm almost everyday in MG and a lot of people on my friendslist ask me to join cuz there is a freekiller in PB or a hacker in Surf or MG or whatever..

he will ban him if there is proof or if it's quite obvious ofc.

then he will be dealt with by us.

A Loaf Pincher
28 Jul 2011, 11:34am
It's just a suggestion.

And of course Supporters and below like this idea. I'm not entirely saying that this is the absolutely best idea out there. No, of course there are better ideas, but I haven't seen any other attempts. This is just my two cents on the take.

If there was an easier way of reporting unruly players, then maybe there would be no need for this idea. I'm just throwing it out to help this. Like Merriman said, it's time consuming and bothersome. And then we go to ask admins (I'm not blaming any admin in particular btw) they are usually on PERP or never really on at all. Sure I see admins like Veggie, Scuba and Octavarium on a few times, but the players will be calm until an admin leaves, they even catch on to name changes. I even played with one rule breaker who was perfectly fine until ScubaToaster left, then it went haywire.

But if the higher up's disagreement makes up the majority of this idea, then throw it out. I would just like to see another, simpler way of reporting players.

Again, I'm not saying that admins aren't doing their job. I know some of them might go a little crazy with power, but obviously if they got that position, then they deserved it and who am I to say that they're not doing their job?

Banana Joe
28 Jul 2011, 12:32pm
Here, let me provide an example:

http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/player-complaints/46471-master-complaint.html

This wallhacker took an AO FOUR DAYS to deal with. What could happen during those 4 days? Oh, right, driving the last few players off because he could keep coming back and making us realize that no one gives a fuck about the Surf DM server so hackers can hack all they want. This will be my last reply to your idiocy.

So kicking him would do what, make him leave and never come back?
If you want to argument well, don't start insulting people, because in the end you'll just end up looking like the dumber one yourself.

IMO, this idea would NEVER go well.. Way more people abusing it, than actually doing something good with it, and way too easy to get. I think that enough reasons has been stated already by other people.

HZK
28 Jul 2011, 12:53pm
Be good in the community, apply for admin, or be selected. You will by then have proven that you can handle power.


Being a support+regular in one shows that you are dedicated to the community, but it doesn't show that you are worthy for admin; you need to prove that for yourself.




Sorry, but I don't support this idea.

mapper
28 Jul 2011, 02:21pm
Look, SG is evolving...
This community exists from 2007 I believe when it was called zombiemurder back then.
Those people aren't online who were very active active back then. This is about the same for people who join now.
Admins are very active in the beginning but most likely this wont stay, admins are humans too, they become older, they finish highschool and many of us are working right now. They build out a career and REAL LIFE comes first.
If you have time left then we come online on the servers/forums =)
The people who join and want to become admin are mostly very active and see a lot of freekillers (in this case PB, derp).
I used to be like this when I was 15, I was very serious about what I did but it's how you handle a situation.
In generally, if you are more active, you see more rulebreakers, but this doesnt make you an better admin.

Supporters who will have given the rights to kick others might take the job serious or either abuse it.
Anyway, SG will only hand their powers to people who they trust, because anyone who just created an account can become supporter.
Supporter gives you nice privileges, but unfornatly, no admin powers within this community.

PS: Regulars are not be trusted :troll:

A Loaf Pincher
28 Jul 2011, 02:35pm
It doesn't hurt to suggest anything, and finding new ways to improve our community is always helpful.
But if it makes everyone else happy on all ends, then I'm happy with SG the way it is too.

I trust the admins. I know they are humans too and will do their job well, and efficiently.
I appreciate everyone's concern and input for this suggestion.

Thank you for your maturity.

This thread can be closed now.

HZK
28 Jul 2011, 02:41pm
PS: Regulars are not be trusted :troll:

I know right?

Zaraki
28 Jul 2011, 06:05pm
It doesn't hurt to suggest anything, and finding new ways to improve our community is always helpful.
But if it makes everyone else happy on all ends, then I'm happy with SG the way it is too.

I trust the admins. I know they are humans too and will do their job well, and efficiently.
I appreciate everyone's concern and input for this suggestion.

Thank you for your maturity.

This thread can be closed now.

You're mocking SG's maturity now r ya?
I'm convinced that you just want not to be pointed out the neg's of your idea.

For the last time, and i'm sure everybody will understand after that.

We all have to live with people having a life and such, and it's just a game.. if you can't stand people beeing bad ingame.. then it's up to you to demo him and get rid of that player. I'm not saying that admins shouldn't do less, but gaming has to be enjoyable to for both groups here.

As i was an admin apprentice, i was annoyed by the people that just wanted you to get rid of somebody for just killing them (like pb).
Beeing an admin is not an easy and fun job in my eyes. Yeah you can think "Wow, you can ban people." And i'm sure most of you do, but in here, you can't just take a day off of beeing admin.
So i can understand why admins don't want to play sometimes and sometimes miss something ingame.

This is also a big reason why some admins just go undercover all the time.. to stop the harassment and moaning and such.

But if they are doing a bad job, they can effectively 'lose' something.. a supporter can lose it's status, but why would kicking be a good thing if players would start to kick eachother and maybe start a kickfest (When a supporter won't take it that he's beeing kicked by a fellow supporter, etc.).

Leave it to the chosen people, they are considered most fit for it.


Good luck!


Zaraki

Paralyzed
28 Jul 2011, 06:14pm
This community exists from 2007 I believe when it was called zombiemurder back then.
Those people aren't online who were very active active back then. [/SIZE]
OI.

Huwajux
28 Jul 2011, 06:15pm
This will never happen.

Admins are chosen through a proper process, whereas supporters can just be random people who have little to no standing in the community (even if they are a regular, or whatever pre-requisite you want to put in place). If this is such a big deal then post a player complaint, contact an admin or even try and become one.

Regular, unscreened members will never have any administrative powers. It will just cause immense problems for everyone.

A Loaf Pincher
28 Jul 2011, 06:42pm
You're mocking SG's maturity now r ya?

You must've gotten the wrong interpretation of what I was saying.

I'm not "mocking" anyone, and don't fucking put words in my mouth, Zaraki.

I'm just saying that every reason to not have it implemented came with a justifiable reason. Since all reasons outweighed the idea, then implementation isn't going to happen.

Zaraki
28 Jul 2011, 06:58pm
You must've gotten the wrong interpretation of what I was saying.

I'm not "mocking" anyone, and don't fucking put words in my mouth, Zaraki.

I'm just saying that every reason to not have it implemented came with a justifiable reason. Since all reasons outweighed the idea, then implementation isn't going to happen.

I wuz joking :]

themuffinman
28 Jul 2011, 11:23pm
everyone has made some good points here
but the original suggestion is just something that makes sense if you don't think about it.
it would be nice if there were some way to speed up the player report process, but once you think about it there isnt really much to be done.

Like zaraki said, people always think being an admin and having powers is awesome
but most people that think that, have never had admin
for those that do or have had it, we know that it Is in fact a pain in the ass, especially when you're always getting pm'd to come into a server to kick/ban someone. thats why many admins in SG go incognito, not just to conceal there SG status, but to not be bothered so they can enjoy gaming.

one last thing, if someone in the server is hacking/breaking rules
either go spec and demo them, or Leave the damn server and come back a later time

harro
29 Jul 2011, 12:12am
Maybe the ability to start a votekick, but an actual power to kick, no.

Paul
29 Jul 2011, 02:52am
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/brick-loud-noises-a.jpg

Huwajux
29 Jul 2011, 04:09am
the original suggestion is just something that makes sense if you don't think about it.
I know it was a typo or whatever, but funny shit.

A Loaf Pincher
29 Jul 2011, 06:18am
thats why many admins in SG go incognito, not just to conceal there SG status, but to not be bothered so they can enjoy gaming.

I'm not so sure they go incognito to avoid us. Being an admin, if I understand, is to enjoy gaming and doing their job to keep the community safe and enjoyable...

Simple psychology:
If a player sees someone, (in this instance Paul because I like his picture) [SG] Paul, the player knows not to fuck up.
But if a player see just a regular name like, Buttcheeks or something, then the player doesn't know and if he/she fucks up, the admin can ban asap without uncovering their real identity.

Plus if we're friends with the admin(s), we're notified of their name change.

Kratos
29 Jul 2011, 07:16am
Not to be rude but we have nearly 150 admins
not to be rude to you guys but ill ask anadmin to join and they all we be like no im playing a game ask someone else...

RedM00N
29 Jul 2011, 08:49am
When I originally saw this thread I said damn someone stole my idea of suggesting trusted supporters got minimal admin powers. But after further reading I'm convinced that this isn't suited for SG ..

**Story Time!!**
Back in 07 this worked exceptionally well for a gmod community i played on mainly because they had 8 mostly-full to full servers but only 15 legit admins, and were almost never on any of the servers except for 2 or 3. Some servers had an admin on it only a couple times a week for an hour or 2 which prompted the community to turn to its many sup's for help(since the owner didn't want any more full admins). There were strict rules stating that no ordinary supporter could get selected, and any supporter-admin caught abusing their powers, depending on the severity you got stripped of all status, or banned temp.

This may have worked very well for them, but I don't see it going anywhere fast for SG and we all know why; "hint hint".
---Votekick/voteban is just a fail and should never be mentioned ever again. I cant tell you how abused those features get.

Plus there are 2 reasons why this would suck IMO....

Reason one, being an admin in every gaming community/group I've belonged to over the years(except for SG), whether it was just low level with just kick/mute access, or full blooded server control, has made me realize that being an admin will certainly ruin the fun(or at least make it less fun), and possibly drive you away from playing the game, or the groups servers(like it did with my last clan). Unless the server has like 20 admins on it all the time, you wouldn't need to do anything since another guy would take care of the problem before you can even act(which is great for me since I'm lazy :P). In my opinion its not worth the loss, especially if your a supporter and you loose your chat powers which I so madly love :D.

Reason two..... Sup powers > Admin powers

Octa
29 Jul 2011, 02:30pm
If you want admin powers, apply for admin. Simple.

If you dont get it, we clearly dont think you deserve it. Or you havent been dedicated enough to get noticed

Farmer Mick
30 Jul 2011, 01:38am
this sounds like the worst idea since getting a reg css server

themuffinman
30 Jul 2011, 08:13am
I know it was a typo or whatever, but funny shit.

not a typo lol

kompactdisk
30 Jul 2011, 09:14am
Kicks don't even do much anyway. Most of the time when I see somebody being kicked, they immediately rejoin.

high rws
2 Aug 2011, 04:36am
lol no way, maybe a votekick/voteban option for only supporters/regs, but not a kick option in itself

Pyro
2 Aug 2011, 10:09am
Its a good idea and it would be amazing if it worked properly without abuse but lets face it, everyone knows its gunna be abused and people are gunna QQ and a lot of shit would start up. So yea its a good idea, but it wont ever happen.