PDA

View Full Version : Abortion - Good or Bad



MPQC
14 Mar 2011, 10:35am
Hop to it.

starbucks
14 Mar 2011, 10:36am
Good

Turtlefiish
14 Mar 2011, 10:37am
"[10:34] MPQC It'll give people a new thread to +1 in! "

I'm a liberal person. It's fine.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 10:38am
Support, in fact I believe it should be forced in many cases.

Korean Ninja
14 Mar 2011, 10:45am
I'm fine with it but if you don't want a baby you shouldn't have sex like a horny fuck










Damn prostitutes

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 10:57am
Bad, if your too damn lazy to have sex without protection, then you should have to take care of the life to be.

Harry
14 Mar 2011, 11:01am
Bad, if your too damn lazy to have sex without protection, then you should have to take care of the life to be.
Rape.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 11:06am
Rape.

Yes. but I only know of one person that got pregnant because of rape. You have 100x more people that get an abortion because they had sex willingly versus the people who were raped and became pregnant.

starbucks
14 Mar 2011, 11:09am
Yes. but I only know of one person that got pregnant because of rape. You have 100x more people that get an abortion because they had sex willingly versus the people who were raped and became pregnant.

It's their own decision

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 11:11am
Yes. but I only know of one person that got pregnant because of rape. You have 100x more people that get an abortion because they had sex willingly versus the people who were raped and became pregnant.

Not like Earth needs more people anyway.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 11:11am
Yes, it is their own decision, however imo it might as well be murder. There may not be life at the given time, however there would be had they not done that. At the very least go through giving birth and give the baby up for adoption.
If you ask me, its a cowards way to have an abortion.

hV
14 Mar 2011, 11:25am
Yes, it is their own decision, however imo it might as well be murder. There may not be life at the given time, however there would be had they not done that. At the very least go through giving birth and give the baby up for adoption.
If you ask me, its a cowards way to have an abortion.

Lol, cowards way... you know how much psychological damage abortion causes in a lot of cases? Hardly cowardly to put yourself through such pain, a lot more damaging than a fucking torn cunt...

Repus
14 Mar 2011, 11:32am
Yes. but I only know of one person that got pregnant because of rape. You have 100x more people that get an abortion because they had sex willingly versus the people who were raped and became pregnant.

Broken rubber?

Empire Strikes Black
14 Mar 2011, 11:45am
http://www.appleparermuseum.com/Images/AppleSeedSection560.jpeg
This is not an apple

http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/egg.jpg
This is not a chicken

http://medicalimages.allrefer.com/large/fetus-12-weeks-old.jpg
This is not a human being

Harry
14 Mar 2011, 11:45am
Well, would you rather have a child grow up in a broken home, a home where they are unwanted, or in poverty at adoption centers?

Fun fact, there are over 120,000 children up for adoption at any given time in the US, many of which who don't get adopted for years.

Why would you voluntarily put a child through all that psychological pain of being adopted ("unwanted by their birth parents"), when you could save it from a life of misery before they have even developed more than a small chunk of cells?

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 11:56am
Whos to say it would be a life of misery. Would you go through a living hell for the first 18 years of your life for the 60 years on top of that where you can make your own life. There is always a choice, I'm not going to talk down to anyone who has had an abortion, I'm sure its a hard decision to make, I just wont condone. it.

Chaos
14 Mar 2011, 12:00pm
I don't think it's as simple as good or bad.. but I support the choice to do what ever the parents want.

Ms. Blargh
14 Mar 2011, 12:01pm
Yah....Im going to stay out of this...

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 12:06pm
Bad, if your too damn lazy to have sex without protection, then you should have to take care of the life to be.

Ain't a life til 9 months.

Ms. Blargh
14 Mar 2011, 12:09pm
Ain't a life til 9 months.

Damn you I wanted to stay out of it.

so all those premature babies that were born before 9 months aren't "a life"? :O

Holy shit Zombie babies.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:18pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vnOaq7nWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdmsVnXZF0s&feature=related
As soon as the Egg and sperm combine, there is life. It may not be conscience life, but it would develop into it should it be left alone. Each and every abortion is a life to be, meaning should it have been left alone, it would be a living being right now.
If you would do such a thing to keep from having a child, then God damn, keep your legs shut...

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 12:21pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vnOaq7nWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdmsVnXZF0s&feature=related
As soon as the Egg and sperm combine, there is life. It may not be conscience life, but it would develop into it should it be left alone. Each and every abortion is a life to be, meaning should it have been left alone, it would be a living being right now.
If you would do such a thing to keep from having a child, then God damn, keep your legs shut...

Lol are you a preacher? Or a preist?

Ronen
14 Mar 2011, 12:21pm
I am for abortion in a life or death situation or living with a disease that would not allow the child to live more than 20 years. Otherwise, letting some irresponsible person have a get out of jail free card and killing their baby is just sad.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:24pm
lol, you assume just because I am pro-life that I am a preacher?
Its funny, in some cases pregnant women were murdered and two charges of murder were made.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 12:25pm
lol, you assume just because I am pro-life that I am a preacher?

No, I asked a simple question. It is you who are assuming things.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:28pm
Lol are you a preacher? Or a preist?

Lol, then tell me what brought that up and while your at it quit being a fucking idiot. Its sad when someone will use anything at their disposal just to troll.

Chęvou˙x
14 Mar 2011, 12:29pm
Here's a simple answer (and this is particularly for Spiritwind):

If you believe in liberty, then you believe in the freedom to make your own decisions for better or for worse, regardless of consequences. If you believe in the (supposed) American ideals, then you believe in liberty. Therefore, forcing or crudely persuading any individual to do something which they do not want but you do want is not only taking away liberty but also the ability to live without fear of losing liberty. Such is the opposition against abortions. No matter your religious or political or moral beliefs, fighting abortion—also known to me as pro-life—is not freedom and is not liberty.

So that you'll understand this next portion, I encourage you to read this article (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/04/exclusive-key-conservatives-behind-s-dakotas-abortion-law-appear-clueless-as-to-what-planned-parenthood-does/).

For example, legally enforcing women to essentially be verbally attacked by biased, anti-abortionist people who are not even qualified in the medical field is outrageous and, at least in reference to American conservatives, downright hypocritical. It takes away the very liberty which conservatives scream and holler about. If any political party passed a bill that forced all American citizens to put solar panels on their roofs, watch an hour-long video about why alternative energy is better than fossil fuels, and then wait at least 72 hours before taking those solar panels down, no one would hear the end of it; GOP party members would cry out for liberty and American freedom. Anti-abortion laws are no different.

There is so much more that I can and want to say, but I'll digress for the moment.

I want to emphasize again that (at least in my perspective) abortions are not and should not be a matter of ethical dilemma for anyone. If we as a nation began enforcing laws based on religious affiliation, then I'd kindly remind the Supreme Court of the Bill of Rights which it continually and vigorously enforces.

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 12:30pm
Damn you I wanted to stay out of it.

so all those premature babies that were born before 9 months aren't "a life"? :O

Holy shit Zombie babies.

No, they're feeble beings whose existence is not "life".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vnOaq7nWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdmsVnXZF0s&feature=related
As soon as the Egg and sperm combine, there is life. It may not be conscience life, but it would develop into it should it be left alone. Each and every abortion is a life to be, meaning should it have been left alone, it would be a living being right now.
If you would do such a thing to keep from having a child, then God damn, keep your legs shut...

So you believe in predestination then I take it?

Bullet Wound
14 Mar 2011, 12:32pm
If we sterilized all the idiots we wouldn't need this discussion.

Its a good thing in some cases, and in other cases it just enables young sluts.

In the end its not something I like, but its either that or have a LOT more babies who will live terrible lives.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:33pm
Haha, you make me laugh. Dont forget this in your thread.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

MPQC
14 Mar 2011, 12:34pm
No, they're feeble beings whose existence is not "life".

So...You care deeply about the killing of trees and farm animals right? Om nom nom.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 12:35pm
Lol, then tell me what brought that up and while your at it quit being a fucking idiot. Its sad when someone will use anything at their disposal just to troll.

I brought it up because you sound exaclty like one. Cry me a river.

Chęvou˙x
14 Mar 2011, 12:38pm
Haha, you make me laugh. Dont forget this in your thread.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Silly you. I never once mentioned the ideals on which the country was originally founded. Not once. I talked about the modern day. And if you want to argue that we must oppose abortion because much of old America was based on Christianity, I'll gladly remind you that: (1) not all Americans are Christians; (2) there has never been a official religion of the United States; (3) history should be learned from and not repeated.

By the way, if you'd like to address the rest of my post, go ahead. Otherwise, I assume that you simple concede that everything else in that post is 100% true and undeniable.

I await.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:39pm
So...You care deeply about the killing of trees and farm animals right? Om nom nom.
Does a tree turn into a man?

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 12:40pm
Haha, you make me laugh. Dont forget this in your thread.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Way too literal of an interpretation.

For a closer meaning try "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"

Or Virginia.

That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Chęvou˙x
14 Mar 2011, 12:41pm
Way too literal of an interpretation.

For a closer meaning try "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"


ALERT: MOMENTARY DERAILING

wXsZbkt0yqo

ALERT: RESUMING THREAD

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 12:43pm
Does a tree turn into a man?

Does an acorn turn into a tree?

MPQC
14 Mar 2011, 12:43pm
Does a tree turn into a man?

Nope. I did several stories of men turning into trees however, but that's besides the point. He labeled the babies as "feeble beings whose existence is not 'life'". I was just wondering if he cared about things that do live.

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 12:45pm
3. State criminal abortion laws, like those involved here, that except from criminality only a life-saving procedure on the mother's behalf without regard to the stage of her pregnancy and other interests involved violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which protects against state action the right to privacy, including a woman's qualified right to terminate her pregnancy.

COUGH COUGH ROE V WADE COUGH COUGH

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:50pm
Here's a simple answer (and this is particularly for Spiritwind):

If you believe in liberty, then you believe in the freedom to make your own decisions for better or for worse, regardless of consequences. If you believe in the (supposed) American ideals, then you believe in liberty. Therefore, forcing or crudely persuading any individual to do something which they do not want but you do want is not only taking away liberty but also the ability to live without fear of losing liberty. Such is the opposition against abortions. No matter your religious or political or moral beliefs, fighting abortion—also known to me as pro-life—is not freedom and is not liberty.

So that you'll understand this next portion, I encourage you to read this article (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/04/exclusive-key-conservatives-behind-s-dakotas-abortion-law-appear-clueless-as-to-what-planned-parenthood-does/).

For example, legally enforcing women to essentially be verbally attacked by biased, anti-abortionist people who are not even qualified in the medical field is outrageous and, at least in reference to American conservatives, downright hypocritical. It takes away the very liberty which conservatives scream and holler about. If any political party passed a bill that forced all American citizens to put solar panels on their roofs, watch an hour-long video about why alternative energy is better than fossil fuels, and then wait at least 72 hours before taking those solar panels down, no one would hear the end of it; GOP party members were cry out for liberty and American freedom. Anti-abortion laws are no different.

There is so much more that I can and want to see, but I'll digress for the moment.

I want to emphasize again that (at least in my perspective) abortions are not and should not be a matter of ethical dilemma for anyone. If we as a nation began enforcing laws based on religious affiliation, then I'd kindly remind the Supreme Court of the Bill of Rights which it continually and vigorously enforces.
Do you believe in murder? You talk about the freedom of choice without fear, however committing murder is a choice and is punished. Tell me truly how abortion is any different than murder. You may say it is yet to be a human, however the only reason you could claim such a thing is because its brain is not fully developed at the time of the abortion. If you say it is alright to do an abortion and kill the baby while its in the fetus, then you must not have any problem with killing someone in a coma that has a 99% chance of coming out of it within the next 8 months.
This is a thread about whether abortion is good or bad, I have no need to go into government bullshit.
Anyone that says abortion is alright, please tell us why you believe so, what makes it right. For those who believe it is wrong, please tell us why you believe it to be so, what makes it wrong?

Bullet Wound
14 Mar 2011, 12:55pm
Do you believe in murder? You talk about the freedom of choice without fear, however committing murder is a choice and is punished. Tell me truly how abortion is any different than murder. You may say it is yet to be a human, however the only reason you could claim such a thing is because its brain is not fully developed at the time of the abortion. If you say it is alright to do an abortion and kill the baby while its in the fetus, then you must not have any problem with killing someone in a coma that has a 99% chance of coming out of it within the next 8 months.

A fetus doesn't make a conscious thought, which is what separates us from animals, hence they are not considered human yet and its not murder. And the coma comparison is quite different, considering a fetus never had a thought in its existence while the coma patient had. Also if I'm not mistaken after 3 months your chance of coming out of coma is terrible, just sayin.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 12:57pm
Do you believe in murder? You talk about the freedom of choice without fear, however committing murder is a choice and is punished. Tell me truly how abortion is any different than murder. You may say it is yet to be a human, however the only reason you could claim such a thing is because its brain is not fully developed at the time of the abortion. If you say it is alright to do an abortion and kill the baby while its in the fetus, then you must not have any problem with killing someone in a coma that has a 99% chance of coming out of it within the next 8 months.
This is a thread about whether abortion is good or bad, I have no need to go into government bullshit.
Anyone that says abortion is alright, please tell us why you believe so, what makes it right. For those who believe it is wrong, please tell us why you believe it to be so, what makes it wrong?

Disregard arguments that defeat yours, win thread.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 12:58pm
Does it still change the state the person is in during the coma, mentally hes in no better shape then a baby still being developed. If you speak of thought before the coma - and that causing a difference, then you cant disregard the thought the would occur after the baby was born - as you have shown that time matters during a choice.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 01:02pm
Disregard arguments that defeat yours, win thread.
lol, tell me what argument was made that defeated mine. I am against abortion because it destroys life that will be, the only way my view could be defeated is if someone were to convince me that all life was meaningless.
I still think its funny how you guys think because of my views that I am influenced by religion, I can tell you right now I believe in no particular set of religion and agree that there is no way anyone could know without a doubt that there is something greater than what we see.

Bullet Wound
14 Mar 2011, 01:02pm
Does it still change the state the person is in during the coma, mentally hes in no better shape then a baby still being developed. If you speak of thought before the coma - and that causing a difference, then you cant disregard the thought the would occur after the baby was born - as you have shown that time matters during a choice.

Make this simple then

Coma Man -> Has a personality/conscious already, is pretty much just asleep

Fetus -> Has no conscious or personality as of yet, as they have never had a thought

I would think the difference here is quite large and obvious

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 01:04pm
Yes, but the state of both are pretty much the same bullet. Regardless of the state of both, they both have the same outcome, future thought.

Bullet Wound
14 Mar 2011, 01:05pm
---Scratch that----

Ms. Blargh
14 Mar 2011, 01:07pm
Honestly I hate every side of this argument.

The people who say you should abort because of the amount of kids put up for adoption.

So you are saying we should make that choice for them?
Don't give them the chance to grow up to live a fulfilling life?

I never several people who were adopted or put thru the system, they didn't have it easy but they are still grateful to be alive.

Im personally against abortion, but Im against taking that choice away from others that may really need it.

BUT I don't like the amount of young girls that sleep around without thinking of the consequences. They should have to get there tubes tied until they are ready for children. Highschool girls with a handful of abortions? WTF

Also people need to get to the heart of the matter. Sexual education, if our schools had better sex ed then these kids would hopefully more precautions.

As for the adults that have abortions without any medical need to, they should fucking no better, there are tons of viable options for birth control. -.-

and its pointless to argue when a fetus is alive or has a soul or any of that bullshit.

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 01:08pm
Yes, but the state of both are pretty much the same bullet. Regardless of the state of both, they both have the same outcome, future thought.

Punch stomach.

Pull plug.

Done.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 01:10pm
Honestly I hate every side of this argument.

The people who say you should abort because of the amount of kids put up for adoption.

So you are saying we should make that choice for them?
Don't give them the chance to grow up to live a fulfilling life?

Yes i am, along with many other cases which i believe require it.


Also people need to get to the heart of the matter. Sexual education, if our schools had better sex ed then these kids would hopefully more precautions.

As for the adults that have abortions without any medical need to, they should fucking no better, there are tons of viable options for birth control.

Lol @ sex ed.

Personall choiche to use a condom (therefor keeping life from being born) personall choice to get an abortion.

Ultramarine
14 Mar 2011, 01:12pm
Punch stomach.



http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt250/teh_milkmanz102/LinkFalconPunch.jpg

Ms. Blargh
14 Mar 2011, 01:13pm
Im aware they are both personal choices (also theres more then just condoms out there)

But which is the least selfish of the two choices?

Lol and cases you believe require it....

If you had your way abortion would be mandatory :P

Chęvou˙x
14 Mar 2011, 01:15pm
Disregard arguments that defeat yours, win thread.

What he said.


Do you believe in murder? You talk about the freedom of choice without fear, however committing murder is a choice and is punished. Tell me truly how abortion is any different than murder. You may say it is yet to be a human, however the only reason you could claim such a thing is because its brain is not fully developed at the time of the abortion. If you say it is alright to do an abortion and kill the baby while its in the fetus, then you must not have any problem with killing someone in a coma that has a 99% chance of coming out of it within the next 8 months.
This is a thread about whether abortion is good or bad, I have no need to go into government bullshit.
Anyone that says abortion is alright, please tell us why you believe so, what makes it right. For those who believe it is wrong, please tell us why you believe it to be so, what makes it wrong?


Abortion during the third trimester is blurry dilemma, but a moral dilemma at that. As far a legal realms are concerned, it is not human until it comes out of that vaginal canal, regardless of age. Murder of non-humans, unfortunate or not, is not considered a crime unless the victim is listed as endangered. So far, you justified the outlawing of abortions through a religious (I assume Christian) lens, and, last time I check, the United States no longer makes lawful decisions based on religion.
You ask me why I believe abortion is alright and I answered. My answer is justified by my aforementioned reasons. You cannot dismiss my justification just because it invalidates yours. If you want to play a respected role in this argument, you must first respect others. Don't you dare bring ad hominem arguments into this thread, either.
As Dracula has already indicated, you still have not approached all of my post, and so far your counter-arguments have failed to win under the judgement of a reasonable individual. If you'd like to address how anti-abortionism denies a woman's freedom of choice and the rest of that post, please go ahead. Otherwise, again, you concede everything else as 100% true.



P.S.
I have to leave for a road trip. As the previous governor of my homestate said: I'll be back.

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 01:17pm
Im aware they are both personal choices (also theres more then just condoms out there)

But which is the least selfish of the two choices?
Either one, dosent matter. If anything your being less selfish by getting an abortion because it helps someone else get payed and earn more of a living then using a condom ect.


If you had your way abortion would be mandatory :P

Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements ive ever seen. If abortion was mandatory there would be no children. Yet again only in certain cases (mental retardation, population controll, unable to provide for the child ect.).

Ms. Blargh
14 Mar 2011, 01:24pm
Either one, dosent matter. If anything your being less selfish by getting an abortion because it helps someone else get payed and earn more of a living then using a condom ect.



Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements ive ever seen. If abortion was mandatory there would be no children. Yet again only in certain cases (mental retardation, population controll, unable to provide for the child ect.).


I wasn't being serious obviously.

Population control- China has no problem with abortion :thumb: Even forced abortion on a 9 month unborn child. Hopefully we never get to that point :/

Dracula
14 Mar 2011, 01:25pm
Population control- China has no problem with abortion :thumb: Even forced abortion on a 9 month unborn child. Hopefully we never get to that point :/

We dont really need it, places like India on the other hand need it in spades.

Spiritwind
14 Mar 2011, 01:58pm
What he said.



[LIST=1]
it is not human until it comes out of that vaginal canal, regardless of age.
Yay, I was a c-section baby thus I am not a human XD.

Smiley :]
14 Mar 2011, 02:06pm
If i got pregnant at this point, i would definitely get an abortion. As I am in no position to take care of a child, nor am I ready, I think it would be irresponsible not to get one. I would rather wait until I'm in a mentally and economically steady position, and at a point where I am actually willing to devote most of my life to the great responsibility it is to have a child.

Tyler
14 Mar 2011, 02:22pm
I personally think you should be able to get an abortion at any point. You shouldn't be forced to have something you don't want. Even if they were stupid and never stopped to think about it.

Bad Dog
14 Mar 2011, 05:39pm
Their choice. Blah blah blah.

Hazardous
14 Mar 2011, 05:57pm
imo, i don't think the fetus really gives a shit.

Lucid
14 Mar 2011, 07:21pm
Bad, if your too damn lazy to have sex without protection, then you should have to take care of the life to be.

Dunno if this has been said yet, but I don't want to read through 7 pages.

Even with protection, things go wrong, birth control isn't 100%, it's pretty close, but some things still manage to get through.

Sex is very important to a relationship, you get to know you and your partner a lot better, and as a young man, I can say that I definitely do not want, nor am I ready for a child.

Zaraki
14 Mar 2011, 07:25pm
I'm free minded, so if you want to get rid of the thing you'll have to take care for, for the rest of your life..
It's a free world ^^

if you have an 'accident' and the girl wants to get rid of it.. it's still her decision.
I feel like the woman has the right to keep or leave it.


This is my 2cents on this matter.

<3

Lucid
14 Mar 2011, 07:55pm
I'm free minded, so if you want to get rid of the thing you'll have to take care for, for the rest of your life..
It's a free world ^^

if you have an 'accident' and the girl wants to get rid of it.. it's still her decision.
I feel like the woman has the right to keep or leave it.


This is my 2cents on this matter.

<3

So, basically, you're Pro-Abortion.

Suicide
14 Mar 2011, 07:59pm
I don't think it's right.

SgtJoo
14 Mar 2011, 08:01pm
I don't think it's right.

Quite an exposition right there.

Doctordan
14 Mar 2011, 08:05pm
My thought on abortion is that it seems that people who are pro life care so much about the unborn baby but once it is born that dont give a fuck. Yet on the other side people who are pro-choice seem to use it as a way to avoid responsibility for there actions.

In conclusion dont be silly wrap your willy

Vivian556
14 Mar 2011, 08:06pm
I'm against it mainly because if you're having sex with or without protection, you have to know what could possibly happen if the protection doesn't work or if you're stupid enough to not use protection. Nowadays people aren't protecting themselves because there are so many ways to get rid of it and they wont have to worry(One of my cousins is a perfect example, she had at least 4-6 abortions last year alone, she even killed a guy's 'miracle baby' without even telling him before :/)..

Rape is a different story though.. I'm not quite sure what I would do or what others should do in that case. I say that I would keep it and probably try and find a family that would adopt it if I couldn't handle the baby or if the memory would be too much. I'd have to be put in the situation to really know what to do, but I would try my hardest to not abort it, because once the baby is conceived, it becomes a person, and it just seems wrong to me.. A lot of people don't really see eye to eye on this subject, but it's just my opinion.

Paching
14 Mar 2011, 08:24pm
Tis the parents choice you cannot and should never force someone to keep a child they do not want.

Prez
14 Mar 2011, 11:31pm
I personally don't give two shits what people do, because they can do whatever the hell they want and it will not have any repercussions on the rest of society. This, of course, is making the assumption that societal trends are non-existent and that doctors would impartial to any judgment made by the pregnant couples.

So basically it's up to the couple, and if they don't they don't, if they do they do. It's no one else's issue and if you think other wise, go get raped in an alley and get an abortion.

c0bra067
15 Mar 2011, 12:09am
coldly looking at the situation, there would be no bundle of cells/fetus/child or whatever if the person never had sex in the first place, so what's the difference if it gets aborted? nothing in the present world will change. 'potential' life gets washed away with ovulation every month, so i don't quite understand the purging of divided cells that are 'more advanced potential life' as an evil deed. unless it is scientifically proven that cognitive processes begins before the child is born, then i don't understand what literally is the difference between cutting out a fetus and cutting off a finger. they're just cells. like i said very cold, but very true. then this all gets very complicated about who and who doesn't have the right to live...

saying that though, i personally will never support an abortion of my potential child other than one those hormone bomb pills that can be taken anywhere from 1 day to 2 weeks that turn the uterus into a slip-and-slide preventing the fertilized egg from attaching to the wall... if that's even under someone's definition of abortion. if people want to abort their children, go for it, its not my decision, and it certainly isn't going to haunt me when i actually have children and see what could have been. those who abort their children due to medical reasons in most cases have made a responsible decision which has already taken an emotional toll, so there's no need to go around protesting a decision that isn't yours to make and won't affect you.

Chęvou˙x
15 Mar 2011, 03:31pm
Yay, I was a c-section baby thus I am not a human XD.

You know exactly what I meant, and nit-picking one sentence in order to avoid everything else is a silly tactic that doesn't go unnoticed here. That said, considering you haven't talked about the rest of my points in this thread, I'll safely assume that you do indeed concede everything that I've so far said...

...which brings me back to the major point here: no matter what anyone believes or says in this thread, abortion will forever be legal if we are to believe in actual freedom. Now, if you want to introduce/have a government wherein freedom is (more) limited, fight for that so abortion will then finally be inappropriate as far as the law is concerned. Until then, though, what I've said is absolute.

Yay for religious fascism?

That last sentence was only a joke and a tease.

</egotisticaljackassrantthathardlyprovesdecencyorany respect>

Lux
16 Mar 2011, 11:22pm
I'm for abortion.

Tbh I don't really care about the baby, if the woman doesn't want it then don't force her to have it.....it ruins the life of people who aren't ready/generally just don't want a baby....and from another angle we're hardly desperate for more babies in the world......there's too many really. It's a life lost? Well...it would've been lost if the women didn't get pregnant anyway so I don't care.

In this day and age sex is usually for pleasure > babies. That's fine by me...and sometimes accidents happen...the amount of times some people fuck it's almost inevitable.

Main thing is to stop people using abortion as a contraceptive...I swear some chavs are getting so retarded that they're doing that.

Boobcake
17 Mar 2011, 02:51pm
:megusta:

iNorris
17 Mar 2011, 08:39pm
First off, I'd like to point out that I am a devout Catholic, so please note that I might have a bit of bias, but I will try to be as non-biased as I can pull off.

I am personally against it, for several reasons: a) If you're willing to partake in sexual intercourse, a process that nature deemed necessary for the creation of life, you should be ready to handle any consequences. b) Abortion actually damages the potential mother, as the female almost immediately starts creating hormones that are necessary for lactation and such motherly things. When the fetus is cut out, it leaves these hormones lying around, which can cause severe mental issues. This is not unlike how vitamins that are not water soluble can build up in fat, eventually poisoning the victim (too much vitamin D=sun poisoning). Lastly, c) What would the kid say if he had the choice to be aborted or not? Granted, many abortions occur between low-income couples, but there are ways around that. For example, I know 3 couples, off the top of my head, in my neighborhood alone, that are looking to adopt a child, or even several. The reason for this (that I've gleaned in my research) is that Planned Parenthood, a popular source of advice for young couples, has many more suggestions involving abortion than they do adoption, as they work cooperatively with many abortion clinics. Also, my parish, as well as a couple neighboring parishes, run programs to provide basic infant necessities like diapers, formula, etc. to parents that can't afford that stuff. It saddens me to know that a lot of people don't know about it.

Obviously, I know that there are extreme situations like rape. For those, I have no real answer. Perhaps people like myself could make a compromise if they took a "morning-after" pill immediately after, if possible. I would be happy to look the other way in this case.

Kuro
18 Mar 2011, 12:20am
I can't believe someone made a thread about such a stupid question. That being said, my thoughts.... though thinking about it already hurts my head. I'll focus on one situation.

Healthy educated female teen gets pregnant from her boyfriend. Her parent's aren't the kind of people who will understand and comfort her. She fears if she tells her parents will kick her out on the street. What do you do for someone like this? I don't know the answer. I think to myself, she should have never had sex to begin with.

Know your history. It was reasons like this that backroom abortions were taking place. SO called doctors using clothes hangers or God knows what method to perform an abortion. Girls end up dying from things like this.

Hell, here in California babies kept winding up in dumpsters that a law was made. Leave your baby anonymously to any hospital or fire station. So that at least the baby doesn't wind up dead.

the question shouldn't be is abortion bad or good. The question itself is wrong.

I dunno it's your life, your body, just don't tell me what i can and can't do with mine.

Metal
18 Mar 2011, 06:10am
Damn you I wanted to stay out of it.

so all those premature babies that were born before 9 months aren't "a life"? :O

Holy shit Zombie babies.

I was 8 Months.
Anyway, I support Abortion for only a few reasons.
Will the child be supported though out life with his/her family?
Can the mother and farther support the child?
How young are the parents.?

Pretty much if its no to the above, i support.

Kuro
19 Mar 2011, 05:17pm
I was 8 Months.
Anyway, I support Abortion for only a few reasons.
Will the child be supported though out life with his/her family?
Can the mother and farther support the child?
How young are the parents.?


Pretty much if its no to the above, i support.


but what if she could have been your future waifu!?

Zaraki
20 Mar 2011, 08:57am
but what if she could have been your future waifu!?

We're talking about a decent future, not your private sex toys..

/Animeslapinthefaceloveitorleaveit

trakaill
23 Mar 2011, 12:29am
Yes. but I only know of one person that got pregnant because of rape. You have 100x more people that get an abortion because they had sex willingly versus the people who were raped and became pregnant.

thats not a reason in itself to let a bunch of half retarded, uneducated girls, often in a money struggle have kids that will ultimately feed the amount of delinquents we already have..

Yes shit happens were decent girls will have to get one..and it sucks but its good they have the option.

Harpr33t
23 Mar 2011, 09:54am
As I lay here in my bed...next to my wife, I decide not to have sex tonight because I am exhausted. Does that mean I just caused "potential life" to be destroyed?

Labarr
23 Mar 2011, 11:16pm
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/guess.png

Omar
24 Mar 2011, 07:07am
broken rubber, drunk misfortunes, etc. fuck that shit
abortions ftw

P3rg3
24 Mar 2011, 11:35am
After reading this thread I've concluded that most of you are probably too young to understand the impact of abortion.

Metal
25 Mar 2011, 04:59am
After reading this thread I've concluded that most of you are probably too young to understand the impact of abortion.

The impact is only as great as the person getting one.
Some could show no emotion about getting one while others could be devastated.

Sexy Fish
25 Mar 2011, 11:19pm
Abortion is fine if the baby is from rape,incest, or if it is known that it will have a disability of some sort. If someone was being stupid and got pregnant from not using protection, no.

RaDiuM
26 Mar 2011, 07:02am
if it is known that it will have a disability of some sort.

Out of fucking order man. You can't just pick and choose until you get a kid with the perfect DNA. It happens but you really think that is ok?

Really?

What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

SgtJoo
26 Mar 2011, 01:37pm
Out of fucking order man. You can't just pick and choose until you get a kid with the perfect DNA. It happens but you really think that is ok?

Really?

What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

That's not at all what he said. If doctors know my kid is going to have a debilitating disease then abortion is the right answer.

Hazardous
26 Mar 2011, 07:18pm
Out of fucking order man. You can't just pick and choose until you get a kid with the perfect DNA. It happens but you really think that is ok?

Really?

What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

You mad bro?

To be without disability =/= perfection.

Lux
27 Mar 2011, 02:42pm
There's no benefit in bringing a child with a disability into the world if it's going to make it dependant on the taxpayer.

Just abort it, try again and save yourself having to spend your whole life looking after your disabled child. People are always thinking about what's right for the little unborn baby, but for me I'd say the parents circumstances are more important.

Egg/unborn child = same thing. You'd happily give up the opportunity of life for the eggs but for some reason it's different when you're actually impregnated......

Anyway, that's just my perspective....

Metal
27 Mar 2011, 02:47pm
There's no benefit in bringing a child with a disability into the world if it's going to make it dependant on the taxpayer.

Just abort it, try again and save yourself having to spend your whole life looking after your disabled child. People are always thinking about what's right for the little unborn baby, but for me I'd say the parents circumstances are more important.

Egg/unborn child = same thing. You'd happily give up the opportunity of life for the eggs but for some reason it's different when you're actually impregnated......

Anyway, that's just my perspective....

It all depends on how you feel.
I was not born a "Speical person" but due to little things i have a few disability's.

But TBH, I 100% Agree with you.

Huwajux
27 Mar 2011, 04:28pm
I was not born a "Speical person"
You sure?

Metal
27 Mar 2011, 06:51pm
You sure?

I sure as fuck hope so.

Jewpiter
27 Mar 2011, 07:51pm
love getting girls pregnant. LOVE IT

Alucard
28 Mar 2011, 12:14am
You sure?
I still bet he thinks anime is real

I sure as fuck hope so.

"hope" lol

Metal
28 Mar 2011, 06:05am
I still bet he thinks anime is real


"hope" lol

http://jeffreydonenfeld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/epic-rage-guy.jpg

RaDiuM
28 Mar 2011, 10:43am
You mad bro?

To be without disability =/= perfection.

Nope, I just strongly disagree with his comment as I have people in my family with disabilities.

Huwajux
28 Mar 2011, 02:27pm
I sure as fuck hope so.
You didn't get my ironic joke. :(

Which ironicly enough adds to the initial irony.

Metal
28 Mar 2011, 06:47pm
You didn't get my ironic joke. :(

Which ironicly enough adds to the initial irony.

it was a +1.
I know what you did

Harpr33t
28 Mar 2011, 11:56pm
Guys every-time you jack off and have the potential to get laid, you're basically having an abortion.

Banana Joe
29 Mar 2011, 08:04am
Guys every-time you jack off and have the potential to get laid, you're basically having an abortion.

Pre-abortion?

Harpr33t
30 Mar 2011, 08:01am
Yeap, I mean you are killing potential life right?

Lux
4 Apr 2011, 09:25pm
Which is my perspective too.

People are being selectively pro life, and honestly I'm not going to say "don't masturbate unless it leads to pregnancy and a child" because that's just retarded.

It does however, leave open an opportunity to knock people off their pro life horses........when it comes down to it curbing population growth and sparing unprepared parents a baby they don't want is a higher agenda than Ethics which ultimately result in harm to ALL of us.

Sander Cohen
5 Apr 2011, 12:06pm
I have lived through having a disabled family member and it is a major drain on the rest of the family as the parents will have to spend all their time with the disabled child and creates emotional tension. I don't want others to go through that, so I would definitely support abortion in such an instance.

trakaill
6 Apr 2011, 03:51pm
Abortion is like spawnkilling!! BAN!!!!

Bob Loblaw
6 Apr 2011, 08:28pm
Abortion is like spawnkilling!! BAN!!!!

Haha.

My stance is that it's situational. But 99.99% of the time you should not have an abortion. If it's risking your own life, then it's okay, but otherwise, you might as well go through with it and put it up for adoption. I know I would rather have a hard life in an adoption agency than no life at all..

Lux
7 Apr 2011, 08:08pm
Haha.

My stance is that it's situational. But 99.99% of the time you should not have an abortion. If it's risking your own life, then it's okay, but otherwise, you might as well go through with it and put it up for adoption. I know I would rather have a hard life in an adoption agency than no life at all..

Could you not apply the same logic to any sexual intercourse involving contraception though? Might as well just have the baby and put it up for adoption.....that egg would rather be in an adoption agency than no life at all....

Epsilon
7 Apr 2011, 10:38pm
Interesting...
I say leave it up to the people who want it or don't want it
It's similar to my view on religion, "Religion is like a penis, its ok to have it, but don't go out showing it off to people and don't go shoving it down people's throats.."
While, yes the above is obviously a joke/quote I read somewhere, it really is the best way I can describe it
The Earth is over populated and it seems that people are less and less qualified to be parents
So then you must ask these VITAL questions (of course these questions will sound kind of dark and cynical but they still need answering...)

"Is the life of said child going to be a hell that no one should be dragged through due to incompetence of the parent?"
"Some parents actually KILL THEIR OWN CHILDREN, what is the point bringing in the child just to be killed >3 yrs into life?"
"Do we really need more people on this planet that we have so carelessly killed, the only one we have?"
etc,etc.

Yeah I know

leeroyjenkinsboy
8 Apr 2011, 04:33pm
Read unwind and just wow. It will blow your mind I read it when it came out and have a signed copy by author, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unwind_(novel) Read the plot or something its about a war happening being pro-life pro-abortion and it seems like its not gonna be science fiction for long O.O

Moomy
10 Apr 2011, 01:35am
I actually had this debate in my sexuality and health classes recently and my answer to abortion is simply this. If you are not a woman, you have no right saying "I would" or "I wouldnt". We men never will have to face this question so we have no right to judge women who are going through their own emotional stress trying to decide for themselves. Alot of things go through peoples heads. Those who say abortion is ok, yeah you are robbing someone at a potential life. Those who say abortion is not ok, the woman also has to think, if I cant raise it now and put it up for adoption, but later can afford to, would I want to have a kid knowing I didnt raise one while I decided to raise another or do I raise my kid even though I cant provide for it and just do the best I can. Its a very difficult decision for them to make. While I said men should basically stay out of this type of discussion, even women need to realize theyre not all in the same position as each other.
Different sex, different lives, different people....life is about making our own decisions.

Legendkiller
10 Apr 2011, 08:55am
It is hard for me to say what should or shouldn't be done since I will never be in a position like that. From what I can see the best option would be to put the child up for adoption, but I understand why women would go for an abortion. I do feel that it is a waste of life if a women aborts the child, but at the same time it isn't my decision to make.

Metal
10 Apr 2011, 11:06am
A girl in my class had her kid when she was 11 years old.
C-section.

She is now 14 and still has sex.

-.-

I'm surprise she didnt get one

trakaill
12 Apr 2011, 10:43pm
A girl in my class had her kid when she was 11 years old.
C-section.

She is now 14 and still has sex.

-.-

I'm surprise she didnt get one

Its a typical case where her mom should aborted her pregnancy.. save the earth from 2 more retards..

Hazardous
13 Apr 2011, 01:14pm
I don't really see how potential life is an argument for anything. Potential life ISN'T a life, it won't be butthurt after being aborted, it had no hopes, no friends, no aspirations, nothing. We don't need more life infesting the already polluted earth, exhausting what's left. Potential life is not sacrosanct and the only factor that should influence whether it becomes a child or not should be whether the potential parent(s) want to keep it or not.

Epsilon
13 Apr 2011, 09:45pm
I don't really see how potential life is an argument for anything. Potential life ISN'T a life, it won't be butthurt after being aborted, it had no hopes, no friends, no aspirations, nothing. We don't need more life infesting the already polluted earth, exhausting what's left. Potential life is not sacrosanct and the only factor that should influence whether it becomes a child or not should be whether the potential parent(s) want to keep it or not.

Agreed
Especially with what was said about the Potential Life part
I couldn't have said it better myself

fanatiik
15 Apr 2011, 02:43pm
you should be able to decide what you do in life so i say yes abortion is good.

Faileron
16 Apr 2011, 04:55pm
I personally am pro-choice, however I believe the time at which the child can be aborted should thought about more. I believe that when the baby can live outside the body (even if medical applications are required), it should no longer be allowed to be aborted.

The problem I have with before that is when do you draw the line. Sure when the sperm pregnates the egg it is now potential life, but surely any sperm is a potential life and so is any egg, so do you call a period and masterbation murder. I'm not saying that every person shoudl have this point of view but this is mine.

Moo Moo Viking
16 Apr 2011, 06:26pm
It is both good or bad it is just the peoples chose to decide weather they have an abortion or not.

This thread is now old i say lock this people have had a long time to get this.

:lock1: :pink: :lock1: :pink: :lock1: :pink: :lock1: :pink: :lock1: :pink:

Forester155
19 Apr 2011, 06:49am
I have played this debate over 1000x in my head [i have ALOT of free time]

And the soloution is pretty simple [DEBATE KILLING TIME!]

Okay, as immoral as it seems, abortion is very important for the lives of women who are giving birth.

Ex: An overmature baby. Kills the mother, baby suffocates on the way out. Solution? Abortion. Why allow the Embrio to live if it just results in two deaths?

Ex2: Rape baby. If i were a female, i for one would NOT want to give birth to the child of my rapist. it doesnt give the child any less right to live, but the trauma of giving birth to said baby is way too much for the woman who got raped. the good choice here would be an early abortion, destroy the embryo before any brain activity begins so its not like your killing anything living.

Abortion can also be a problem, it is used as birth control in many poor areas, and this is entirley wrong.

Ex: That strange maternity nurse. "Oh baby, dont worry about it! I've had 14 abortions in the past year and a half!" NO. YOU MA'AM ARE SICK AND A MURDER. IN THREE WORDS, BURN IN HELL.

Ex2: That normal abortion nurse. "Abortions are Great. i give hundreds a year, i especially love giving them to people who dont need them!" And i Quote above....

However, Just because these people exist doesnt make them worth killing. so they aborted embryos, we hate them, they should possibly get some kind of punishment. but seriously, no more radicals.

Ex: THATS THE MATERNITY NURSE/ABORTION NURSE! KILL HER. no. just no.

ThinkEmpire
8 May 2011, 06:09pm
Bad. Some people say you killed something not living yet. So what ? It's going to live in few months ? No ?

Epsilon
8 May 2011, 07:49pm
Bad. Some people say you killed something not living yet. So what ? It's going to live in few months ? No ?

Not necessarily...SIDs, irresponsible parenting, complications, etc
So many things beyond our control can unexpectedly terminate life

Elleon
10 May 2011, 03:33am
Personally, I am pro choice on the matter. It's not a religion vs science, moral stand point, or any particularily personal reason. It's simply about how when it comes to black or white decisions, I don't suddenly become hypocritical and or contradictory by choosing gray and then pretending it's one of the latter.

Good or bad? As others have pointed out, that is a stupid question.

Drox
10 May 2011, 07:23am
Personally, I think it's always the womans choice to decide what she wants to do with her body and anything inside her body.

BlackEagle
11 May 2011, 06:57am
Personally, I think it's always the womans choice to decide what she wants to do with her body and anything inside her body.

But what about that living organism inside her body? Doesn't it get a choice too?

Drox
11 May 2011, 07:09am
But what about that living organism inside her body? Doesn't it get a choice too?

Nope, plus we aren't talking about a 7-8 month matured baby inside the womb. How the hell does something that can't think on it's own have a choice? Fetus' I don't really count as matured babies lol Would be like saying a womans egg is also alive and should have a choice.

Drox
11 May 2011, 08:52am
that doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken into consideration.

I suppose its a matter of opinion.



No, it's not. The egg is very different to a foetus.

I didn't say they were exactly alike but at the same time in essence you could make the same argument which was my point. Since the argument is that this thing inside a woman should have a choice so life can be born from it. You could also do the same argument for sperm since they are also somewhat "living" things that can produce life that most men carelessly spew about. Although people get around these examples by saying when they believe life officially begins which is fertilization or conception.

Although;


A scientific textbook called “Basics of Biology” gives five characteristics of living things; these five criteria are found in all modern elementary scientific textbooks:

1. Living things are highly organized.

2. All living things have an ability to acquire materials and energy.

3. All living things have an ability to respond to their environment.

4. All living things have an ability to reproduce.

5. All living things have an ability to adapt.

A fetus before it grows pass a few months only does 2 of these five which is #1 and #2. Once it grows pass a few months after the 9th week of fertilization which it becomes a fetus it then slowly takes on the rest. Although this doesn't mean much since life can be considered a lot of things without having all these abilities right off the bat. Although once again it depends on your opinion on life.

In my opinion, it should be more what that person feels is right not what you or others think they should feel is right when it comes to their body and how they deal with it. Thats the bottom line to this argument, pretty much the difference between what the woman in question thinks is right and what others tell her is right when it comes to handling whats inside her.

Drox
11 May 2011, 09:20am
Anyone who says that the argument can be extended to sperm and eggs is a retard.

Well the same could be said to those who think that about a fetus lol


Also, it is opinion and to some extent yes it's all about the personal choice - but it's a poor personal choice if you abort a baby late into the pregnancy. Relatively speaking, it doesn't take long for someone to realise they're pregnant even if they didn't test for it.

Poor personal choice morally?



I also think the "pro-choice" argument ignorantly blunders well into the messy area of teenage pregnancies (IE feminising young women who have made a lifechanging decision usually without much thought). If a teenager thinks they're old enough to run the risk of having or even proactively want a child, then they should not be able to simply change their mind under circumstance as late as the law currently allows into pregnancy (especially considering the amount of people in the world that are unable to produce a child).

Well personally I wouldn't mind seeing a more controlled population when it comes to bearing children. China is a good example of when having kids can get out of hand. Although the pro-lifer argument is that there will always be enough to go around so keep popping em out because god wills it. I believe people should start taking more cautious actions when its comes to having sex (Or in cases of rape abortion is never a bad option imo) but at the same time abortion can be a tool for population control down the road. Of course this isn't a issue as of yet, but it's becoming one.


It's not about "what people are allowed to do with their bodies" - because we KNOW that that argument doesn't apply to laws and society - otherwise drugs would be legalised, we'd be allowed to drive without seatbelts and we wouldn't have any form of health and safety, it should be about promoting responsibility and making sure that any decision taken is taken at an appropriate time with enough thought put into it.

I can agree to this, although the debate is what is considered right or wrong when it's legal to do so. Of course if something is outlaw'd then its obviously not allowed no matter how right you think it may be.

BlackEagle
11 May 2011, 06:02pm
I would say that in some cases I am for abortion. Such as rape or if the child was to kill the mother at birth, these reasons I feel are ok for abortion.

Epsilon
11 May 2011, 09:38pm
4. All living things have an ability to reproduce

This is false as Ligers and other living creatures are born sterile and are incapable of reproduction

As for this debate lets look at something other than whether or not it[the fetus] is considered a living being or not
Humans are somewhat virulent in nature and have only contributed to the destruction of this planet and other species
Also factor in that this planet is becoming overpopulated and people are running out of places to live and that we as a race are more focused on inflicting harm and hurting than doing good (sure some will argue that that last point is false but that is my opinion and is meant only to be so everything else before the inflicting harm part is undeniably true)

So now with the above stated lets ask this, should we even bother to continue to reproduce and further overpopulate the only current suitable planet for life furthering its destruction and unavoidable demise??

Perhaps I sidetracked a bit from abortion but this seriously needs to be taken into consideration when more people come into the picture because honestly when we do finally run out of room and Earth can no longer sustain us where will they[those non-terminated fetuses] go?

I am pro choice by the way

Eclipse
11 May 2011, 09:49pm
I would be fine with it for some cases like BlackEagle has said and Epsilon is right, Ligers, mules, and Infertile (sterile) animals cannot reproduce.

trakaill
12 May 2011, 12:30am
The more relevent problem today is teenage pregnancy (over here, at least) but yes, overpopulation is also a huge problem that will one day face us.

that is an issue that troubles me a LOT ... aside from abortion it scares me how young girls are pregnant. I was behind my sister the other day while she was on facebook, half her friends have kids. She is 19. One was 7 month pregnant at a bar with a cig in one hand and a beer in the other, apparently that girl is also hiv+ so yeah.. oh and another one of her friend was preggers from the same guy but got an abortion. I wish she did to. I was freaked!!! Im only 4 years older and my generation wasnt even that bad.

Epsilon
12 May 2011, 05:43am
that is an issue that troubles me a LOT ... aside from abortion it scares me how young girls are pregnant. I was behind my sister the other day while she was on facebook, half her friends have kids. She is 19. One was 7 month pregnant at a bar with a cig in one hand and a beer in the other, apparently that girl is also hiv+ so yeah.. oh and another one of her friend was preggers from the same guy but got an abortion. I wish she did to. I was freaked!!! Im only 4 years older and my generation wasnt even that bad.

Yeah I'm ashamed of my generation for this :(

BlackEagle
12 May 2011, 07:47am
that is an issue that troubles me a LOT ... aside from abortion it scares me how young girls are pregnant. I was behind my sister the other day while she was on facebook, half her friends have kids. She is 19. One was 7 month pregnant at a bar with a cig in one hand and a beer in the other, apparently that girl is also hiv+ so yeah.. oh and another one of her friend was preggers from the same guy but got an abortion. I wish she did to. I was freaked!!! Im only 4 years older and my generation wasnt even that bad.

Actually in the United States teen pregnancy is on a major decline. I wouldn't be too worried about it here in the US as in other countries. It may seem like a lot but in reality teen pregnancy is reducing.

Drox
12 May 2011, 12:45pm
This is false as Ligers and other living creatures are born sterile and are incapable of reproduction

If you read what I said after I list those, you would have saw a living thing doesn't need all of these to be considered alive. lol I was merely using it as a example.

Epsilon
12 May 2011, 01:24pm
If you read what I said after I list those, you would have saw a living thing doesn't need all of these to be considered alive. lol I was merely using it as a example.

Yeah but what you said was it doesnt need to have them "right off the bat" implying they can develop them later on
yeah sorry if i took that the wrong way but thats what it seemed like to me

Zopy
12 May 2011, 04:52pm
I'm alright with it, but I honestly think that it should be restricted to:

-If the baby was conceived in consensual sex, you can't abort once the third trimester of pregnancy starts.
-No restrictions if conceived by rape, etc.

actually, I don't even know if abortion is possible in the third trimester without harm to the mother, now that I think about it.

PingPong
14 May 2011, 02:04am
March for Life May 11th, I'm prolife

Shadowex3
14 May 2011, 07:05am
Delicious.

TheProdigy
27 May 2011, 10:48am
It's ultimately their own decision for abortion. However, I am pro-life on this matter. No matter if the person was raped or not, I still believe the child should be born. My ex-girlfriend was a rape child (her mother was raped and the result was her) and she is living fine today.

dolph1n
29 May 2011, 08:04am
I'm fine with abortion. I don't understand why people get so heated over killing a group of cells. What I don't agree with is an abortion in the third trimester. If you're going to wait that long, fuck you. You're having that baby, because at that point an abortion can cause harm to the mother, and it's much harder.

Also, on the whole adoption thing. Isn't it much easier to just get an abortion and stop any chance of them not getting adopted as a kid and having to live in an adoption center until their 18? It's not like we need more people anyway.

Jizzy
29 May 2011, 09:43am
Hmm it is not good but i can imagine if u were raped and got a baby u want to abort it so too difficult

This is something hard to make up your mind cuz there 2 ways in it

bmills
13 Jun 2011, 04:15am
If you raped someone why would you blow your load in the V when you could blow your load in her A?

Bad Dog
13 Jun 2011, 12:03pm
BAB THEY U CANT MAKE BABIES

Oh hi, have you met:


http://www.primaryteaching.co.uk/prod_images/mainproduct/a133.jpg

Lux
13 Jun 2011, 05:31pm
w_RaPOOVX1Y

Kratos
13 Jun 2011, 06:36pm
i think its up to the girl but i think they should keep it cuz you never know what that kid could become

Jizzy
14 Jun 2011, 02:58am
i think its up to the girl but i think they should keep it cuz you never know what that kid could become

keep abortion or keep the kid!?

Kratos
14 Jun 2011, 07:13am
lol keep the kid do not abort

Jazzyy
14 Jun 2011, 05:38pm
abortion is fine by me. it's their body, their choice. none of you here get choice in the matter on what others do to their body

harro
15 Jun 2011, 11:47pm
The arguments that centered around "THAT THING IN YO BODEH MAY HAVE FUTURE THOUGHTS THEREFORE IT IS MURDER" are completely ridiculous.

That's like saying using a condom is mass murder.

BlackEagle
16 Jun 2011, 06:10am
The arguments that centered around "THAT THING IN YO BODEH MAY HAVE FUTURE THOUGHTS THEREFORE IT IS MURDER" are completely ridiculous.

That's like saying using a condom is mass murder.

That is not really the same thing at all.

harro
16 Jun 2011, 07:42am
That is not really the same thing at all.

You should really explain how it's not the same thing at all, because the only really thing you can differ is where you draw the line between what you consider to be developed and not developed.

Jazzyy
16 Jun 2011, 08:08am
the main argument for abortion is whether or not the baby being aborted is "a living thing." it's a living thing the whole development cycle but that doesn't mean shit considering it's not your choice to decide on whether or not it gets to live.

face the facts here: babies are fucking parasytes. they live off your natural "goodies" cause adverse affects on your mind, etc. i don't see a problem with aborting it just like i don't see a problem with removing parasytes

Jazzyy
16 Jun 2011, 01:42pm
umad havok?

Frostbyte
17 Jun 2011, 03:07am
I tend to think of it as an issue that can't be generalized and for that reason specifically I think the option should be there, but obviously looked at as a last resort. Remember that people have to deal with the emotional baggage that comes along with it, as well as moral crucifixion from some individuals. As spiritwind said earlier in the thread, I won't look down upon someone who has an abortion (unless it was malevolent or poorly thought out).

Itch
17 Jun 2011, 10:17am
I'll be ok with abortion as long as we can increase the legal age at which said fetus can be aborted to say.. 80 years. That way I can abort a large number of really ignorant people that can't argue with coherent thoughts but rather get into the whole..

"I'm right.. cause I made some Dr. Phil-esque comparison that has no real relevance to the real issues."
"No your wrong.. cause you can't prove anything, and your comparison sucks!"

I am a big fan of actual debate as I know some others around here are. Look at the Welfare Drug Testing thread for an example. Thank you Havok for actually debating with me in a reasonable manner. I am all for expressing your thoughts and debating pro's/con's of any issue.

So as for me.. I'm pro really really late term abortion. Old people square dancing to shitty country music in middle of the street is a great example of people screaming for late term abortion. Idiots trolling threads, rather than debating the issues given in the threads should fear legalization of really really late term abortion.

harro
17 Jun 2011, 05:58pm
You are officially
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3463889617_819c7064de.jpg

Congratulations, please never post in this section again.



No, because a sperm cell is not the same as a foetus, why don't you stop being a dense motherfucker for just a moment and consider bothering to read through the thread in which posts have pointed this and many other of your obvious fallacious arguments out before you decide "welp, time to chip in with my bullshit, everyone should hear what I have to say."

God fucking damnit you guys need to learn how to debate and express a sensible point properly.

Yes, I mad.

I would like to see you describe why there is a difference between killing sperm cell and a fetus without translating any interpretation of scientific difference into fucking self morality.

harro
17 Jun 2011, 08:16pm
Since you clearly have the mental age of an infant, I'll break it down simply for you:

A sperm cell is a simple cell, billions and more are probably "killed" in an average guy's life.

A foetus is a stage in development for an animal (more specifically, a mammal).


Provided you're not some idiot who believes old Catholic doctrine of sanctity, a retard or just a troll, you should recognise that a CELL is not equatable in any way to a MAMMAL.


If you really think that the half-arsed illogical and unbased argument of "well, a foetus has a potential for life [which is a bollocks statement] and so does a sperm cell [which is also a bollocks statement], therefore killing both is equatable."

It is a lazy, retarded and degenerate argument that neither applies nor makes any tangible sense and if you still insist that you are correct or want to keep up this charade of ignorance, then I strongly advise you to go die in a fire.

żComprende?

Actually, mammals have sperm with a specific morphology to their kind, so I wouldn't call it a simple cell like any other cell. I also really don't understand how a sperm cell is not a "stage in development for an animal", considering without the sperm cell, you don't have the animal.

Also, the argument of "you already kill a whole bunch of them anyways, so it doesn't matter"?
I really don't understand how that makes the killing of a sperm cell more wrong or right than a fetus, so you should go into that with a little more detail.

But overall, the most daft point you're missing in your argument is that you're not stating why your "evidence" is significant. Fetuses are closer to being a mammal? So what? You're just choosing where to draw a line. It doesn't make anyone else's line less significant, true, or ideal.

And I'm not some crazy person that is equating the killing of an actual child to a sperm cell. What separates an actual child from a "fetus" or a "sperm" is that a child or a baby can biologically function without attaching itself to another organism, that's what makes the difference, not some stupid ideology of "but", "ifs", and "ands."

And go die in a fire? Really? You're a grown man, you don't need to resort to a stupid meme or phrase to nail in a point.

harro
18 Jun 2011, 09:06am
Most cells have specific morphology, it is just a cell.

And no, it's not a stage in development for an animal because it is not an animal nor does it become the animal. It transfers genetic material for fertilisation so that an embryo can be made - it is as much of an animal as an ovum is.

The sperm cell is no more than a carrier of genetic material and various proteins and jazz. It is not "half an embryo" or however you might think it is.

No, I am not choosing where to draw a line, the line is biologically drawn already - a foetus is not close to being a mammal - IT IS A MAMMAL.

With the aid of modern medicine a developed foetus (somewhere around the 20 week mark nowadays) can survive outside of a womb. So yeah, you're talking shit.

No, but it helps.

I could say it's an "ANIMAL CELL", does that really have any significance or relation? No, it does not, it's just another irrelevant line that doesn't matter.

The sperm cell is in the process of creating a fetus, hell, you could say the fetus can't even be considered a mammal if it hasn't finished developing the mammalian characteristics A.K.A. hair, mammary glands, sweat glands.

But I don't even care about that, I'm saying WHY THE HELL IS IT RELEVANT AND WHY THE HELL SHOULD IT MATTER? We kill mammals everyday for food and other processed items so obviously the term mammal has no weight. If something is a mammal, it's life isn't sacred, holy or important.

And also, yes, medicine can keep a fetus alive after 20 weeks, but usually not without health defects + 100% survival. If it weren't for the two, I would have no problem lowering the abortion limit as long as it didn't come out of my pocket in any way, and probably 1 or 2 other objections I can't think of at the moment. (Just woke up.)

PM27
18 Jun 2011, 09:55am
In this case http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/george-bush-stunned.jpg It could have been acceptable.

harro
18 Jun 2011, 11:11am
Nope.

Arguable, but stupid.

I agree, but the law is based around the point at which the nervous system is developed enough that the foetus can feel pain.

I personally don't think it should be that late because it's unnecessary.

Normal childbirth isn't 100% survival, and there were no health defects associated with the youngest/most recent one.

Normal childbirth is pretty damn close to 100%, and laws really should not be based off of one sample, say if 997 out of 1000 have no health defects in a test, then it would be plausible to increase restrictions on the law itself.
On another note though, there needs to be someone willing to pay for that medical service, because I'm guessing it costs more to abort then to give a 40 week fetus emergency medical treatment, but I'm not quite up to date on that. Sure, it may sound "morally" wrong, but I don't believe that a mother has to pay for that treatment if she has the other option, which is to abort. Not to mention the mother does not want the child anyways, so it's probably going to an orphanage, which runs off of taxes. You could argue that it is the mother's fault that she knew the risks when she had sex, but that would be like saying the people of Chernobyl deserved what they got. Condoms sometime break, birth controls fuck up, etc, shit happens.

^But that has nothing to do with what I said in the first place. I'm sorry if I came off in the wrong way, but my view on the pretense of "future thought" is illogical, because there's a lot more animals than humans that can "think", and there are many processes that can allow something to have thought, some with the complexity that comes pretty close to a human. If you put your platform on that pretense, you're just going to run into ridiculous double standards that you can't argue out of.

CakeForPresident
21 Jun 2011, 11:38am
Well, my view on it is basically, NO! We should not let mothers kill their children. I know it's a dumb argument, but how would you feel?
If a woman wants to kill her baby, she shouldn't have made it in the first place. Condoms, birth-control pills, this shit is all there. And if a couple just wants to have protected sex, they're probably not married, and shouldn't be having it in the first place. 'Nuff said.

Jazzyy
25 Jun 2011, 08:11am
ANYWAY

What I meant by the parasyte is this: pregnancy can be a serious health concern for a lot, and I don't mean they could die at birth. Pregnancy has been known to cause a lot of health issues:

Complications of pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_of_pregnancy)

What one could argue in court that having a baby could cause a permanent strain on their life, and that abortion could remedy such complications like depression, psychosis, anemia, and so on.

And so forth, it is possible to argue in a court of law that abortion is a cure to medical issues that are from pregnancy. Leading to the fact that pregnancy, in any circumstances, could pose serious health conditions in ALL women who become impregnated during their life.

dolph1n
26 Jun 2011, 10:07pm
for fucks sake Havok it's spelled fucking FETUS.

NOT FOETUS.


ANYWAY,

FETUS's are not animals in the slightest. Not at all. And to those absolute retards earlier in the thread, who said, "Don't kill it, because you don't know what it could become, maybe the next president or something." Really? DERP WHAT IF THEY'RE A SERIAL KILLER AND I'M SAVING 28 PEOPLE'S LIVES? YAY ABORTION.

That being said, I'm pro abortion as I said earlier in the thread. I don't see anything wrong with it as I don't think a baby is a human being until it's BORN. Arguing will do nothing, because I am not going to budge and think all pro-lifers are retarded and all pro-lifers aren't going to budge and think I'm retarded.

Oh well. PRO-CHOICE.

SgtJoo
27 Jun 2011, 12:07am
Lol, you correct his (British and correct) spelling then go on to use the possessive of fetus instead of the plural.

Hazardous
27 Jun 2011, 12:38am
for fucks sake Havok it's spelled fucking FETUS.

NOT FOETUS.




way to look like an asshole.

dolph1n
27 Jun 2011, 08:35am
way to look like an asshole.

No problem. :)

@Havok:

If babies could survive at ~21 weeks normally, then you might have a point, but as you said earlier, without modern medicine it's not possible. Even then, a 21 week fetus is so severely premature that it will almost certainly die. Let alone live a somewhat 'normal' life. That point is not very strong, considering there are is only a 50% chance of survival at 24 weeks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterm_birth#Mortality_and_morbidity), let alone ~20.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, a baby is not a baby until the mother goes into labor. Because at that point, you know it's going to be born, and you can't get an abortion at that point.

But, no matter what I say, you won't budge on your opinion, and likewise with myself. No matter what you say, I'm pro-choice. I guess we'll just have to wait for the next generation to make the right choice :d

dolph1n
27 Jun 2011, 07:29pm
I'm glad we're on the same page then. :) I think late term abortion is rather dumb. If you're not smart enough to make a decision in 24 weeks, especially when the baby is only a few cells, then you obviously aren't very bright. I think the US is totally different because of the idiots in Senate and the House that are bible thumping pro-lifers. Thankfully, once the baby boomers die out and more modern people get into congress, that will hopefully change.

And tbh, I thought you were a pro-lifer. Turns out we agree on more than I thought.

Another reason I am pro-choice is because, honestly the majority of people considering abortion don't deserve or can't support a baby anyway. As if we need more people and more kids in adoption homes, or with shitty lives.

MindGames
29 Jun 2011, 04:36pm
Another reason I am pro-choice is because, honestly the majority of people considering abortion don't deserve or can't support a baby anyway. As if we need more people and more kids in adoption homes, or with shitty lives.

This, like we need MORE people in foster care, group homes, and adoption homes.


It's up to the discretion of the person who is going to have the abortion, end of story. If someone doesn't want the responsibility of a child, nor do they want to give it away, that's their choice, not the government, our, or anyone else for that matter decision.