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SATAN
21 Apr 2008, 04:15am
So im still working on my I am Legend theme map, and since its based in New York the map is pretty damn big:glare:

Im only about halfway done and my Compile times are RIDICULOUS, i can go to bed and sleep a solid 8 hours while its compiling, come back and the compile is on PortalFlow 1...2...3...4...5...6...

So i tried to Optimize a bit following this guide (http://www.student.ru.nl/rvanhoorn/optimization.php?chapter=intro), but even after doing a lot of it, after 6 hours i was still on 6...7, so i guess it got a little faster but still, im only halfway through the map when its done its probably gonna be twice as big as it is now, i dont see myself waiting 2 days for the compile unless i really have to.

Soooo.... is it normal? im wondering how much you guys had to wait for compiles for maps like blackmesa or jurassic, both pretty big maps.

P.S: i already tried putting VIS on fast instead on normal but its seems that the map crashes the server when i do that.

Falcon04
21 Apr 2008, 01:58pm
how big is this map? what kind of brushes are you making? did you carve anything? are skip/hinting the shit outta your map? is it mostly open air?

I need details or you don't get answers.

EvInReaLife
21 Apr 2008, 02:17pm
Try making some of your brushes func_details. Cuts compile time in half.

SATAN
21 Apr 2008, 09:59pm
how big is this map? what kind of brushes are you making? did you carve anything? are skip/hinting the shit outta your map? is it mostly open air?

I need details or you don't get answers.


12 hours and its at 7...8...

i would say its pretty big, but still not as big as some the maps out there, its based on New York so yeah a lot of open space.
I dont think i have any complicated brushes, the road, the buildings are all just spuares/rectangles, i have 6 cylinders in right now and they are all func_details already.

As for the hinting, im really confused on how to use it, only place i know where to put it is in corners, aside from that i have no clue

Bill Smauz
22 Apr 2008, 04:12pm
Do you have any lights that are toggled on and off? Can you nodraw some surfaces? Remove some unneeded props.

Falcon04
22 Apr 2008, 07:35pm
Nodraw anything at all that you can't see. It's a bitch, but when you want the map to run well it helps a lot.

take a look at css or hl2 maps, valve mappers nodraw all things above the view range and stuff around corners you can's see.

SATAN
23 Apr 2008, 01:31am
I have Nodraw on as many things as possible.
I think the problem might be with the Visleafs and Hinting.
Im gonna start deleting whole chuncks of the map and try compiling it try to find something that slows it down.
Anyway if i still cant compile it in a couple of days i might just try to upload it somewhere and find someone to look at it for me.

Phil
24 Apr 2008, 06:22am
Soooo.... is it normal? im wondering how much you guys had to wait for compiles for maps like blackmesa or jurassic, both pretty big maps.

No it's not normal, maps like that should take 10-20 minutes max, if that.

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 07:22am
lol then i guess i got some problems to work out

£cho
24 Apr 2008, 08:11am
The compile time of a map usually depends on the size of the map in general, especially when it comes to outdoor settings, as there's a lot of things light needs to bounce off of, and even more especially so when using light_environment.

It is quite normal for your map to take a long time. Most of my maps take anywhere from 30 minutes to 5 hours to compile. I even had one that took 24 hours, yet when I played it, it gave me a solid 300fps. So, don't be fooled; just because a map takes a long time to compile doesn't mean it isn't optimized properly and will give you poor frames. In most cases in fact, this isn't true. Then again, it can't hurt to optimize your map to the best of your abilities. :biggrin:

Phil
24 Apr 2008, 10:29am
While it may be true the end map can be okay, it also however the product of way too many visleafs in the map, and trust me those extra ones will be quite unnecessary. It also leads to sloppiness to be honest. It really makes a difference when you do it 'right' and it's a good map skill to understand from the beginning. Not to mention that visleafs can increase map size unnecessarily and fill your visleaf limits fast.

My rule is that vrad takes as long as it takes really, there is not much to do about it. I would rather have a fantastic looking map than some fast compiled 5 minute light job. But when your map chokes on vvis then you have some issues to work out. If Vrad does a better job on your lighting (by various compile commands or lightmap changes) it is possible to even double your map size, but this is size worth using, not some visleaf overload. It is possible to optimise vrad, but in my experience it leads to your map having either bad lighting or less stuff in it. You could always cut lights out, but generally you wouldn't want to do that, it depends on the effect the light is having and whether a single light could substitute for 2 or more lights by tweaking the settings. Lowering lightmaps is in my book generally only what you do to large surfaces that simply do not recieve shadows, like large fields etc. The only other way is really have less stuff for the light to be calculated on, but that's just a silly way to optimise your vrad time.

In a ze map the skybox ceiling can be low for outdoor areas so in a well made map they really do not choke vvis as much as many people are led to believe. Even if the skybox ceiling is as high as it possibly could be it will only add about 5 minutes on to your vvis, as it will chop it on every brown line therefore unless you have buildings all the way to the top, the top area of the map's visleaf will be perfectly uniform. Compiling a completely empty large as could possibly be map takes under 8 minutes with all tools on full.

I know compile times are subjective to your computer, but compiling your average not particularly expansive or feature filled zombie escape map should not even touch the hour mark in my opinion.

If you plan or just make your map around the basis of making good visleafs, you could easily knock off probably like 50 hours off your whole map completion, pretty much those 50 hours would be the wasted time of compiling vvis.

If anyone needs any of this explained I'll do my best to do so.

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 12:49pm
Alright guys i give up, ive been trying to compile this map for a week now but i cant leave a compile on for more than 12 hours; and i obviously suck at optimizing, i managed to cut the time about half but its still not enough.
So i uploaded the .vmf file.
So id be very greatfull if anyone at all could take a quick look at it and tell me if theres anything i am doing wrong.



Again thanks in advance to anyone that can help.

Phil
24 Apr 2008, 01:50pm
Hmm you made some big mistakes here.

First of all various crates and metal walkways were not func_detail. They should always be func_detail.

Also another which was easily your biggest choke of the map was that you didn't func_detail the words police on the cars. That was basically what choked the entire thing.

I also removed the hint brushes, they were more likely to confuse the compiler than help.

The final compile time was 4 minutes, 31 seconds and individually:

BasePortalVis: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
PortalFlow: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (172)
BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (100)
BuildVisLeafs: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (167)

These are the times of the main vrad and vvis calculations.

So basically what you need to do is func_detail all the metal grate walkways and ladders, func_detail the crates and func_detail the words police on the cars and everything will be running just smooth.

Another thing is that the words police and the lights on top are entirely off the grid due to rotating and skewing. It also had an effect on the vbsp section of the compiling. It only paused for about 15 seconds but you keep adding to these problems and you'll soon find you're wasting a lot of compile time again. Things like this are best as models and textures, I understand not everyone can do these like myself so I am kind of biased but i'm just saying what it would be best as. Try and keep every vertex on the grid and never ever ever rotate or skew a brush unless it is rotated exactly 90 degrees which can be done much easier if you right click on the brush and select transform.

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 02:44pm
lol i completly forgot about the police word....
anyway im gonna try this right now see if it works

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 02:56pm
holy sh!t!!
i cant believe the stupid word did all that to me.
i was about to give up on it
well it worked :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
thank you so much man :001_tt1:

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 03:12pm
Also, could you do me another favor.
Can you run the map after compiling it and just walk around for like 2-3 mins
Cause the reason i wanted to compile it on normal and not on fast is because my map crashes the game or any server i put it on and i tought that might be the problem.
But apparently it wasnt cause i ran it after the modifications and it still crashed

Phil
24 Apr 2008, 03:22pm
Nope no crashes.

But I must say it is annoyingly dark and the skybox doesn't really match the lighting.

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 03:40pm
ok thanks, could you possibly upload the map somewhere so i could get it?
im tryin to figure out out why it keeps crashing....
maybe its somethin on my comp

as for the darkness, i know its dark thats why i added the lights but i kinda have to follow the storyline of the movie, dunno if you've seen it; and the skybox is only a temporary one.

Phil
24 Apr 2008, 03:47pm
http://www.filedropper.com/iamlegend

Both .vmf and .bsp

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 03:53pm
alright thanks

SATAN
24 Apr 2008, 05:38pm
Ok this is really weird, the map did crash its just at a special point on the map.
Around the back of the big truck, whenever i go there my whole game crashes, and its only there cause i walked around the whole map for 15 mins especialy avoiding this area and nothing happened, as soon i got near there it crashed.

So i decided to test a bit to see what was crashing it, and thats whan it became odd.
I deleted every single building, compiled, still crashed.
i then deleted every single entity, compiled, still crashed.
Deleted everything exept the road and a spawn, and made a small brush to recognize the spot, compiled, still crashed.
so i made the road a skybox too, compiled, still crashed.
So i deleted everything exept my T spawn and my little brush, and made a big skybox brush around it and made it hollow, still crashed when i got to that point.

Can anyone tell me wtf is going on?

Blubla
25 Apr 2008, 12:24pm
Open a new Window in Hammer and copy/paste the whole map in this "new" Window. It should work now, if it doesn“t work post your compile log/bsp.

SATAN
25 Apr 2008, 03:14pm
Im having trouble selecting the whole map and copying it, not sure if im doin it right.
When i copy it in rthe new file and save, once i open the new file again, theres nothing there.

EDIT: lol im stupid, i was selecting by pressing Map - Map Properties, which obviously doesnt work.
Got it now, gonna try compiling the new file.

Cross your fingers

SATAN
25 Apr 2008, 03:29pm
Well it worked, thanks to you! :thumbup1:
Only down side from this is that every single texture is messed up now, probably gonna have to recenter them all, but if its the price to pay to mkae my map work, ill gladly pay it.
Kinda saved my map there :001_tt2:

SATAN
25 Apr 2008, 04:01pm
I just wanna make one last post to thank everyone that helped me out in this thread.

:w00t:

Clod14
17 Jun 2008, 03:52am
Hey Satan if ur still having that problem, i made this program,
it should make it a bit Faster to Compile. (and you dont need HAMMER opend)
to Compile your map.

Ive Tested this on my map. (one thats coming out.)on Hammer and it just got stuck on
"Portal Flow 1...2..3...4..5."
This finished the map :] in almost 30 min.
and YOU can Run other Applications :] "Even Play a Game"
With this in the Background :]
So yea, Please use this. :D im sure you'll like it :D

A simple Compiling Program made by me :D (http://www.zombiemurder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6027)