PDA

View Full Version : Piracy - Good or Bad



MPQC
11 Feb 2011, 07:04pm
Hop to it.

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:04pm
It's bad you asswipe.

Chaoz`
11 Feb 2011, 07:05pm
good, end of discussion :wave:

Spiffy
11 Feb 2011, 07:05pm
Detrimental and Necessary.

Jazzyy
11 Feb 2011, 07:05pm
we should have a poll

bad

Korean Ninja
11 Feb 2011, 07:06pm
Yeah.. Bad :wave:

Btw imma put wave every post from now on yay :D :wave:

Chaoz`
11 Feb 2011, 07:06pm
Detrimental and Necessary.

^ this :bigsmile:

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:06pm
Let's just say it's bad, and end it at that. I said I had all night, but I don't want to spend it argueing, I want to spend it playing Dead Space 2.

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:07pm
How is it bad?

It's good for me.

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:08pm
How is it bad?

It's good for me.

It's bad for the developers.

Chaoz`
11 Feb 2011, 07:08pm
good for me, now i can watch my fav shows without paying €10000000 (hundreds of euros)

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:09pm
It's bad for the developers.

Howso?

A) I'm not going to buy the game regardless of the situation so I pirate it.
B) No profit for them to lose (hint: I was never going to buy it anyway) so you can't make the stupid "lost profit" argument.
C) I get a COPY (hint hint copy not stealing) of the game.

This is bad how?

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:09pm
good for me, now i can watch my fav shows without paying €10000000 (hundreds of euros)

Ten million Euros does not equal hundred of Euros. :angry:

EvilShadow98
11 Feb 2011, 07:10pm
Could be bad to a certain extent.

Dracula
11 Feb 2011, 07:10pm
JTVpxxzb2Dc

Chaoz`
11 Feb 2011, 07:10pm
Ten million Euros does not equal hundred of Euros. :angry:

w/e you get my point

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:11pm
Howso?

A) I'm not going to buy the game regardless of the situation so I pirate it.
B) No profit for them to lose (hint: I was never going to buy it anyway) so you can't make the stupid "lost profit" argument.
C) I get a COPY (hint hint copy not stealing) of the game.

This is bad how?

A: So even if you had the money to pay for it, SPARE MONEY, you would still pirate it? You cheap asshole.

B. It is if you eventually get the money. You're not going to be poor your whole life.

C. Still cause a lose of profit.

MPQC
11 Feb 2011, 07:12pm
A: So even if you had the money to pay for it, SPARE MONEY, you would still pirate it? You cheap asshole.

B. It is if you eventually get the money. You're not going to be poor your whole life.

C. Still cause a lose of profit.

How's it a loss of profit. If you're not going to buy the game in the first place, pirating it doesn't change anything. No money going towards them, then you pirate, and still no money going towards them.

Korean Ninja
11 Feb 2011, 07:12pm
Could be bad to a certain extent.

^ :wave:

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:13pm
How's it a loss of profit. If you're not going to buy the game in the first place, pirating it doesn't change anything. No money going towards them, then you pirate, and still no money going towards them.

Money would be going towards them if you buy the game in the future. But pirating the game and keeping it forever is just wrong.

Also, games are a luxury and not a necessity.

Afamad 2.1
11 Feb 2011, 07:15pm
Anyways, I'm off to play Dead Space 2. Which I bought.

I'd like to make this final statement. If you can't afford the game don't get it. You don't need a game to live. Just wait till you get the money.

See ya. If anyone else wants to continue this, feel free to.

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:15pm
A: So even if you had the money to pay for it, SPARE MONEY, you would still pirate it? You cheap asshole.

B. It is if you eventually get the money. You're not going to be poor your whole life.

C. Still cause a lose of profit.

So your argument essentially boils down to that when I am not fiscally able to purchase current video games such as Crysis 2, Dead Space 2, etc. I should refrain from purchasing + pirating.

Your argument assumes that I will have money in the future (perhaps after graduation in around 3 years). I should not buy any games (I don't have the money) and I shouldn't pirate them?

I should literally spend 3 years playing Garry's Mod and CSS until I get the money to buy four year old games in the future? That's a stupid argument. If I can acquire the game through piracy, I'm going to do it. I have zero moral qualms about doing so.

Korean Ninja
11 Feb 2011, 07:17pm
I feel sorry for the poor sucker who has to buy it to get the piracy shit going :P :wave:

wait why am I still here

MPQC
11 Feb 2011, 07:18pm
I want to throw a real example into this thread, and I want you to tell me is you think this is fair. I'm at university, and for my religion class, I must watch the comedy show "Big Bang Theory" weekly, so every new episode that comes out. Being at residence, I have no access to a tv unfortunately. So, I decided, I have to watch it online like a huge chunk of the class.

I load up the tv channel that offers the video's free online. Illegal to show it to people in my country. Damn. I load up youtube, same thing. Damn. That leads me to being forced to pirate it. So every single week I steal from whatever company hosts/produces the video.

Fair or not?

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:20pm
I want to throw a real example into this thread, and I want you to tell me is you think this is fair. I'm at university, and for my religion class, I must watch the comedy show "Big Bang Theory" weekly, so every new episode that comes out. Being at residence, I have no access to a tv unfortunately. So, I decided, I have to watch it online like a huge chunk of the class.

I load up the tv channel that offers the video's free online. Illegal to show it to people in my country. Damn. I load up youtube, same thing. Damn. That leads me to being forced to pirate it. So every single week I steal from whatever company hosts/produces the video.

Fair or not?

Definitely fair.

Even Afamad can't argue against that with his contrived "necessity vs luxury" argument he's created.

Chaoz`
11 Feb 2011, 07:21pm
I want to throw a real example into this thread, and I want you to tell me is you think this is fair. I'm at university, and for my religion class, I must watch the comedy show "Big Bang Theory" weekly, so every new episode that comes out. Being at residence, I have no access to a tv unfortunately. So, I decided, I have to watch it online like a huge chunk of the class.

I load up the tv channel that offers the video's free online. Illegal to show it to people in my country. Damn. I load up youtube, same thing. Damn. That leads me to being forced to pirate it. So every single week I steal from whatever company hosts/produces the video.

Fair or not?

meh seems fair, but i only do it, cuz they shows aren't up to date here, they're still a bit behind, like The Walking Dead, in the USA it's finished, it hasn't even aired here

MPQC
11 Feb 2011, 07:22pm
Why is it fair? I'm stealing from them. I am taking what I don't own.

Jazzyy
11 Feb 2011, 07:28pm
So if piracy was never invented/discovered(?), then none of you would buy any game you've ever pirated? Hm.

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:30pm
"Anyone who read our piece on Underground sales skyrocketing after the comic was bootlegged on 4chan will not be surprised by Neil Gaiman's revelation in this interview with Open Rights Group. Everyone else, hang on to your seats, because he thinks piracy may help increase sales."

"You're not losing sales by getting stuff out there. When I do a big talk now on these kinds of subjects and people ask "What about the sales you are losing by having stuff floating out there?" I started asking the audience to raise their hands for one question -- Do you have a favorite author? And they say yes and I say good. What I want is for everybody who discovered their favorite author by being lent a book put up your hand. Then anybody who discovered their favorite author by walking into a book story and buying a book. And it's probably about 5-10%, if that, of the people who discovered their favorite author who is the person they buy everything of and they buy the hardbacks. And they treasure the fact they've got this author. Very few of them bought the book. They were lent it. They were given it. They did not pay for it. That's how they found their favorite author. And that's really all this is; it's people lending books."

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/02/10/neil-gaiman-piracy-lending-books/#ixzz1Dhx6Khsa

Sexy Fish
11 Feb 2011, 07:34pm
I believe that if you pirate a game to try it or see if it runs well on your computer and you are willing to buy it later if you enjoyed it...then sure..piracy is fine. Yet nearly nobody does that.

Korean Ninja
11 Feb 2011, 07:35pm
So if piracy was never invented/discovered(?), then none of you would buy any game you've ever pirated? Hm.

Piracy was never "invented" *facepalm" :wave:

SgtJoo
11 Feb 2011, 07:36pm
I believe that if you pirate a game to try it or see if it runs well on your computer and you are willing to buy it later if you enjoyed it...then sure..piracy is fine. Yet nearly nobody does that.

You can't make a broad generalization like that without any facts to back it up.

Jazzyy
11 Feb 2011, 07:47pm
Piracy was never "invented" *facepalm" :wave:
Hence why I said invented/discovered. I say invented because of P2P, usenet, and the technology that allows said act to be used. I say discovered because the people using etchnology figured out a way to do such.

Drox
11 Feb 2011, 07:56pm
Good for promoting games, bad for making money off of them. Its a love and hate relationship, if you end up buying a game that you pirated then I dont see a big problem. Although tbh, that rarely happens. lol

Hazardous
11 Feb 2011, 08:00pm
wat about 4 music dough, i mean like i always hav enuf monies for albums n stuff but i nevar buys dem. n wen i get intoduced 2 a new band or somthing i still pirate dem and dey dont make no moinies :(

b0red
11 Feb 2011, 08:06pm
i remember once seeing a picture that broke down how much a artist makes when you buy their music via itunes/cd/other ways. The best way to support a artist is to buy the physical cd and even then they make almost all their money on endorsements and concerts. Music piracy is A. OK for me.

MPQC
11 Feb 2011, 08:22pm
i remember once seeing a picture that broke down how much a artist makes when you buy their music via itunes/cd/other ways. The best way to support a artist is to buy the physical cd and even then they make almost all their money on endorsements and concerts. Music piracy is A. OK for me.

You got that a bit wrong. Buying a physical cd makes them next to nothing. Buying online songs makes them next to nothing. (Literally, they get almost nothing.) However, buying merchandise, visiting concerts, and the like, will make them pure profit since it cuts out the RIAA (and any similar, for different countries).

Matt
11 Feb 2011, 08:33pm
Bad

its considered stealing.

Bad Dog
11 Feb 2011, 08:47pm
Personally? I hate pirating. I really dont see the point in it. If you cant afford it, what gives you the right to get it for free?

I mean, stealing music (Yea, stealing) from, say, U2 or some other gigantic band probably wont dent their sales overall (same arguement could be applied to game companies as well, I suppose). Yet, when assholes decide to download/torrent indie music Bands that are generally not huge, and probably CANT take the hit, fo' free? Well, fuck you.

Honestly, I just dont understand the logic behind some of these arguements. You're stealing. Plain and simple. If you have no moral qualms with it, fine, that is entirely you're deal. But don't try and convince others that what you're doing isnt wrong, because that's just utter shit.

And so you know, I am a bit of a hypocrit. I have downloaded some music for free, but have only downloaded one game, which I never play.

Does that make me a pirate? I guess, but I don't pretend that what I did was right/justified. It was stealing.

Suicide
11 Feb 2011, 08:51pm
It's bad, but still, everyone does it. :P

Zealot
11 Feb 2011, 09:06pm
I'm going to make one post about my PERSONAL OPINION on pirating in general. Pirating is not borrowing as many people claim it to be. Borrowing implies that you return whatever you borrowed. Since you keep whatever you pirate (even though you may discard it at a later date, you are still taking it, aka stealing it). And even though it is stealing I do it too, as do most people. I mean really look at your ipod for fucks sake, how much of that is legit music you bought?

Software:
- I think its fine because who really spends fucking $400 on a video editing program or $100 on an OS.

Music:
- Everyone does it, singers make so much money anywhozzle, $12 (or less if its 1-2 songs) ain't worth their time

Games:
- Terrible, and I have a good reason. If you noticed in the recent years what game companies are doing, you'll realize pirating games has a bigger overall effect than money being lost. For example Starcraft 2, $60 and you need to login to a battlenet account tied to the CD key of the game you bought. It is region locked so you have to buy multiple games to play in multiple regions. Now why in the fuck did they do this to their loyal fans? Easy, its DRM to protect against piracy for online games. You look at any EA game that's been released within the last 1-2 years and you have to login with your EA account before you can acess online play. Not only that, but they charge rediculous amounts for DLC that would've cost nothing 5 years ago.

To sum up pirating games causes DRM/Logins to access the games, which is to stop pirates from getting online games.

My second point for games is that look at all the games being released. Console ports/multiplatforms are the norm. Why? Even though all games start at the PC from development. Its because pirating games is the biggest for PC gaming and when people pirate games, the developer would much rather spend their money on consoles, where they actually make money.

Edit: I buy all my games because I want to support the company that makes games that I enjoy. Hypocritical since I DL music/software but yeah, I can admit to stealing.

Ronen
11 Feb 2011, 09:18pm
http://teaching.zachwhalen.net/comics/sites/teaching.zachwhalen.net.comics/files/images/tony-the-tiger-frosties.jpg

Zealot wants to be a bitch. So I will make a actual statement... They're great.

Edit: the pirating of course.

Korean Ninja
12 Feb 2011, 12:10am
Personally? I hate pirating. I really dont see the point in it. If you cant afford it, what gives you the right to get it for free?

I mean, stealing music (Yea, stealing) from, say, U2 or some other gigantic band probably wont dent their sales overall (same arguement could be applied to game companies as well, I suppose). Yet, when assholes decide to download/torrent indie music Bands that are generally not huge, and probably CANT take the hit, fo' free? Well, fuck you.

Honestly, I just dont understand the logic behind some of these arguements. You're stealing. Plain and simple. If you have no moral qualms with it, fine, that is entirely you're deal. But don't try and convince others that what you're doing isnt wrong, because that's just utter shit.

And so you know, I am a bit of a hypocrit. I have downloaded some music for free, but have only downloaded one game, which I never play.

Does that make me a pirate? I guess, but I don't pretend that what I did was right/justified. It was stealing.

^

2DG
12 Feb 2011, 12:28am
I want to throw a real example into this thread, and I want you to tell me is you think this is fair. I'm at university, and for my religion class, I must watch the comedy show "Big Bang Theory" weekly, so every new episode that comes out. Being at residence, I have no access to a tv unfortunately. So, I decided, I have to watch it online like a huge chunk of the class.

I load up the tv channel that offers the video's free online. Illegal to show it to people in my country. Damn. I load up youtube, same thing. Damn. That leads me to being forced to pirate it. So every single week I steal from whatever company hosts/produces the video.

Fair or not?

I watch that show. xD

But yeah like many people say, Pirating games = bad.
I haven't pirated one single game, ever, I bought them all.

Spiffy
12 Feb 2011, 12:50am
Software:
- I think its fine because who really spends fucking $400 on a video editing program or $100 on an OS.

Seriously? Programs that make this world function is less important than games? Do you know how much time programmers spend stressfully coding things like Windows, Photoshop, your anti-virus, the browser you are using, the security tools that keep your sensitive data safe, the very fucking programs to make these stupid games?

It doesn't make a damn difference what you pirate, it is stealing in every definition of the word. Look around, if you pirate anything you are stealing from every honest hard working person that you know. If you pirate music these days, you are an asshole. There are so many ways to listen to full song legally and then buy a single song. We used to have to buy full CDs even when I was little. Yes, the system is all fucked up but you are directly affecting inflation and destroying the economy. All the more reason for you to work your ass off and help fix it.

duhoh
12 Feb 2011, 12:55am
Games:
- Terrible, and I have a good reason. If you noticed in the recent years what game companies are doing, you'll realize pirating games has a bigger overall effect than money being lost. For example Starcraft 2, $60 and you need to login to a battlenet account tied to the CD key of the game you bought. It is region locked so you have to buy multiple games to play in multiple regions. Now why in the fuck did they do this to their loyal fans? Easy, its DRM to protect against piracy for online games. You look at any EA game that's been released within the last 1-2 years and you have to login with your EA account before you can acess online play. Not only that, but they charge rediculous amounts for DLC that would've cost nothing 5 years ago.



agreed, but that's not an absolute though. games with DRM like spore (which only can be activated 3 times) and assassin's creed 2 (which requires online connectivity in a game that's purely SP), the piracy scene has made it easier for the consumer by bypassing all of that.

either way, a good game will get sold no matter what. most people tend to think that piracy is SUCH a huge issue, when really it's nowhere near as damaging as the used game sales are. you can argue that someone bought the game in the first place, but same with the copy that got leaked online.

Phobos
12 Feb 2011, 02:03am
I honestly love DRM for games. For people who are used to trading in their games, it can get quite annoying. However, it's great for the developers so they can get the money they deserve. EA has been trying pretty hard to fight it, especially with all the "limited edition" games.

I've also been hearing talk of making people buy keys to play online if they buy a game used, and I'm totally for it (for PC, at least).

To me, there really can be no justification for pirating. Plain and simple. Even with the excuse of "trying and then buying". Like duhoh, I'm a hypocrite. I've done it before. However, every time I did, I'd have a bad feeling. I honestly haven't pirated anything in at least 4 years. I love the feeling of owning all my stuff legally. And btw, I do own Adobe CS5 Production Premium and Win7 Pro.. and soon 3DSMax or Maya. ;)

Moo Moo Viking
12 Feb 2011, 03:30am
Good

Desum
12 Feb 2011, 03:40am
You guys can argue all day about it and about the difference between right and wrong but at the end of the day it all comes down to personal morals/opinions. The people who don't care about the companies are going to pirate, plain and simple, and have no morale issue with it. Most opinions fall in one of the two:

a.) Pirating takes money out of the hard working artists/developers/creators.

or

b.) So the already ridiculously rich doesn't have a few more bucks? Big whoop.

A pothead doesn't care worth jack-shit if he's smoking pot, while others may find the act vile. Same principle here. Its all personal dilemmas that some overcome and some don't. The idea that it takes money away from people who worked hard certainly applies, but the fact still remains that someone whose already a millionaire won't ever have their lives affected by a small percentage of possibly lost sales.

Zaraki
12 Feb 2011, 04:19am
Good, why should we care about others?

Repus
12 Feb 2011, 06:50am
Why should doing crimes on boat be different from doing them on land?

Dam Pirates of carribean gives wrong impression of pirates.

Neji
12 Feb 2011, 06:52am
Good for us, bad for the company.




My second point for games is that look at all the games being released. Console ports/multiplatforms are the norm. Why? Even though all games start at the PC from development. Its because pirating games is the biggest for PC gaming and when people pirate games, the developer would much rather spend their money on consoles, where they actually make money.


I can aswell just mod my xbox and burn a cd with lets say Halo Reach. There is always a way to get a game for free, even online.

Empire Strikes Black
12 Feb 2011, 09:38am
I'm for pirating music because music has been overpriced for so many years that music producers make more money from the album than the actual artist. If you do want to support an artist that you like, go to their concerts and shows.

Everything else depends on your scenario.

u egg
12 Feb 2011, 09:48am
developers should stop selling their games with so high prices. cod for 60 euros ? wtf ? srsly ?
Most of games are now finished after 10-15 hours, I won't pay 50 bucks just for 10h of gaming.

I steal music I can't find in shops (old songs,...). I don't often download movies, but I do to get them in english.

Banana Joe
12 Feb 2011, 10:00am
Well, if you have the money for a computer, you should have the money for a fucking game.. I wouldn't pirate a game personally, well maybe to see if I could run it, but then I would buy it later, but so far, I haven't pirated anything. Though if there is a thing I would consider pirating, it would be something like Photoshop, because there's no fucking way that I'm gonna pay over 1000 euro (that was the danish price last time I checked, but I don't know if there are cheaper versions and so on) because I won't be using it every time I use my computer, and last time I checked, my legal trial still worked after a month anyways, lol. But yeah, this is just "IMO".

Repus
12 Feb 2011, 10:18am
I steal music I can't find in shops (old songs,...).

Have you even tried online? like Itunes or Spotify?

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 11:00am
Well, if you have the money for a computer, you should have the money for a fucking game..

Mind blowing lol

Bad Dog
12 Feb 2011, 12:48pm
developers should stop selling their games with so high prices. cod for 60 euros ? wtf ? srsly ?
Most of games are now finished after 10-15 hours, I won't pay 50 bucks just for 10h of gaming.

I steal music I can't find in shops (old songs,...). I don't often download movies, but I do to get them in english.

Or maybe you shouldnt buy such crappy games. There are plenty of games that are more than worth their price. And if you wont pay for 50 bucks, how about you dont buy it?

Would you walk into a nice resturaunt thinking "I'll eat the meal, but skip on the check, since it'll only last for an hour." No, you wouldnt, and that's your arguement here.

Honestly, I just dont see where people get this idea that they are so fucking entitled. No, its nothing new in human behavior, but jesus does it make you look stupid.

Afamad 2.1
12 Feb 2011, 01:12pm
Or maybe you shouldnt buy such crappy games. There are plenty of games that are more than worth their price. And if you wont pay for 50 bucks, how about you dont buy it?

Would you walk into a nice resturaunt thinking "I'll eat the meal, but skip on the check, since it'll only last for an hour." No, you wouldnt, and that's your arguement here.

Honestly, I just dont see where people get this idea that they are so fucking entitled. No, its nothing new in human behavior, but jesus does it make you look stupid.

Oh my God, Bad Dog agreeing with me? Dear God it's the end of the world.

Oh yeah, while you guys were arguing last night I got from CH. 3 to CH. 13 in Dead Space 2 last night on my second Zealot playthrough.

SgtJoo
12 Feb 2011, 01:14pm
I lol'd

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o132/Gaiaus/1297537262227.png

Matt
12 Feb 2011, 01:14pm
Good, why should we care about others?

Let me ask you this

If you helped work on the new call of duty lets say and people pirated your game.

Honestly how wud you fell and be honest?

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 01:24pm
Let me ask you this

If you helped work on the new call of duty lets say and people pirated your game.

Honestly how wud you fell and be honest?

Acitvision fucks them more than any pirate could, so whats your point. lol Not to mention most CoD games arent worth the money after cod4.

Afamad 2.1
12 Feb 2011, 01:52pm
Acitvision fucks them more than any pirate could, so whats your point. lol Not to mention most CoD games arent worth the money after cod4.

If you don't like the game or the way the company works, then don't buy the game like I do. Don't pirate it...

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 01:54pm
If you don't like the game or the way the company works, then don't buy the game like I do. Don't pirate it...

If I dont like the game or the way the company works why would pirating it to see how the SP story progresses be a no go? :P How does 1 person amount to millions/billions they lose from a company who fucks over their developers? To me it makes no difference, when all they rely on is a brand name to make sells then they deserve what they deserve imo. If they spent more time on making a decent game, I would buy it.

Zealot
12 Feb 2011, 02:30pm
I can admit to stealing.


Seriously? Programs that make this world function is less important than games? Do you know how much time programmers spend stressfully coding things like Windows, Photoshop, your anti-virus, the browser you are using, the security tools that keep your sensitive data safe, the very fucking programs to make these stupid games?

It doesn't make a damn difference what you pirate, it is stealing in every definition of the word. Look around, if you pirate anything you are stealing from every honest hard working person that you know. If you pirate music these days, you are an asshole. There are so many ways to listen to full song legally and then buy a single song. We used to have to buy full CDs even when I was little. Yes, the system is all fucked up but you are directly affecting inflation and destroying the economy. All the more reason for you to work your ass off and help fix it.

I admitted to it? y so mad

I didn't even say less important. I'm just saying I don't wanna pay a shit ton of money for those kinds of software, reading comprehension ftw.

Phobos
12 Feb 2011, 02:43pm
If I dont like the game or the way the company works why would pirating it to see how the SP story progresses be a no go? :P How does 1 person amount to millions/billions they lose from a company who fucks over their developers? To me it makes no difference, when all they rely on is a brand name to make sells then they deserve what they deserve imo. If they spent more time on making a decent game, I would buy it.

Because you aren't the only person that does it. You people who pirate all the time seem to think you're one of very few people who do it. It looks to me like at least a quarter of the game dev and retail store profits are lost due to piracy, if not more.

SilentGuns
12 Feb 2011, 02:44pm
Depends what you pirate.
-------------------------------------------

Pirate minecraft > selfish, the guy really needs the money.

Pirate COD6 > nobody cares, it is owned by a giant company, it can handle it.


same with music and movies.
---------------------------------------



also if you pay for it afterwards then it is ok. Don't worry.

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 02:49pm
Because you aren't the only person that does it. You people who pirate all the time seem to think you're one of very few people who do it. It looks to me like at least a quarter of the game dev and retail store profits are lost due to piracy, if not more.

If they made better games that wouldnt be a problem was my main point. :P I havent seen a game in a long time that has really wanted me to pay 50-60 dollars for (Besides for consoles). Make better games worth playing online and people will buy them to play multiplayer.

Matt
12 Feb 2011, 02:52pm
Acitvision fucks them more than any pirate could, so whats your point. lol Not to mention most CoD games arent worth the money after cod4.

My point is that if you work on something would you want your stuff pirated?

probably not

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 02:57pm
My point is that if you work on something would you want your stuff pirated?

probably not

Most dev's get payed good no matter how well their game sells, its the company who matters in sells.

Bad Dog
12 Feb 2011, 02:57pm
If I dont like the game or the way the company works why would pirating it to see how the SP story progresses be a no go? :P How does 1 person amount to millions/billions they lose from a company who fucks over their developers? To me it makes no difference, when all they rely on is a brand name to make sells then they deserve what they deserve imo. If they spent more time on making a decent game, I would buy it.

Aaand you lost me. See, this "Well what does one person matter" mentality is retarded when its a LOT of people doing the same fucking thing.

And yes, the developers need to spend more time to make better games. Since CoD4, they havent made shit that was good. I can agree with that. However, I cant understand why you would then steal the game, "For the SP story" when you claim the game isnt even worth the time.

Either pay for it or fuck off, because at some point, your "Oh I'm just one person what damage do I really do" turns into a shit storm, because there are countless other dicks doing the Same. Damn. Thing.

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 03:07pm
Aaand you lost me. See, this "Well what does one person matter" mentality is retarded when its a LOT of people doing the same fucking thing.

And yes, the developers need to spend more time to make better games. Since CoD4, they havent made shit that was good. I can agree with that. However, I cant understand why you would then steal the game, "For the SP story" when you claim the game isnt even worth the time.

Either pay for it or fuck off, because at some point, your "Oh I'm just one person what damage do I really do" turns into a shit storm, because there are countless other dicks doing the Same. Damn. Thing.

I do enjoy seeing what they do in SP, although that doesnt mean I liked the SP story. MW2 for example the SP story was fucking shit. Since they went the whole red alert route with russia invading the US which could have been done better. Im not gonna buy a game just so I can play something once then uninstall.

I dont see why so many people get butthurt about people who pirate games, yes other people pirate games that wasnt really the main point of my reply and yes it most likely hurts game sells. People still pay money for these games which is more than I would want to say since I believe they should go out of business with the crap they flood into the gaming industry.

If I didnt try a game, who am I to judge it solely on videos and shit. So I dont feel bad about pirating, no matter who comes forward to give some kind of butthurt excuse for a company that does a shitty job. I'll still try something if I find it interesting and if I think its worth the money to keep playing then I'll pay for it.

James
12 Feb 2011, 04:20pm
Pretty much what Spiffy said. It pisses me off how I earn money from work, which I can then use to buy a game, which to me, is a fucking luxury, not a goddamn right to have. Yet I see some arrogant arseholes who have a mindset: "Oh look that game looks really cool, oh to hell with videogames being a luxury to have, i'm going to think of it as my freewill to illegally download it."

Obviously, being brought up in the years of dial-up internet, I had to buy CD's for games back then, so I learnt how to choose games carefully by reading up about them, or talking to friends that owned the game, and asking what it is like.

Guess what, when you buy a game from a retailer (or steam), the developers provide you the LICENCE TO PLAY THE GAME, if you don't believe me, how about you go read the legal terms in a game manual; you don't actually take ownership of the game. It is stealing no matter what you think, you are essentially stealing something you didn't own in the first place.

Hazardous
12 Feb 2011, 04:34pm
I do enjoy seeing what they do in SP, although that doesnt mean I liked the SP story. MW2 for example the SP story was fucking shit. Since they went the whole red alert route with russia invading the US which could have been done better. Im not gonna buy a game just so I can play something once then uninstall.

I dont see why so many people get butthurt about people who pirate games, yes other people pirate games that wasnt really the main point of my reply and yes it most likely hurts game sells. People still pay money for these games which is more than I would want to say since I believe they should go out of business with the crap they flood into the gaming industry.

If I didnt try a game, who am I to judge it solely on videos and shit. So I dont feel bad about pirating, no matter who comes forward to give some kind of butthurt excuse for a company that does a shitty job. I'll still try something if I find it interesting and if I think its worth the money to keep playing then I'll pay for it.

So they makes lots of monies anyway so stealing is a-okay?

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 04:36pm
So they makes lots of monies anyway so stealing is a-okay?

If thats all you got from my reply then thats that. lol Like I said, you can be high and mighty about buying all ure games. It wont change the fact that I dont and will only pay for those I find suitable to do so. ;)

Jazzyy
12 Feb 2011, 04:37pm
Pirate COD6 > nobody cares, it is owned by a giant company, it can handle it.
Uh what...? Just because it's owned by a giant company doesn't mean the developer won't necessarily get shut down due to poor game sales. Pirating instead of buying only pushes publishers to close down studios more often.


As for $60, it's actually not that big of a deal, it's inflation at work, we knew since 04 that game publishers would be raising the price, anyway. (http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/29/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm)


Most dev's get payed good no matter how well their game sells, its the company who matters in sells.
No shit sherlock, they get paid DURING DEVELOPMENT. Guess what happens after the game is launched and is unsuccessful? No job anymore.

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 04:41pm
No shit sherlock, they get paid DURING DEVELOPMENT. Guess what happens after the game is launched and is unsuccessful? No job anymore.

lol Someone is a little grumpy

Hazardous
12 Feb 2011, 04:45pm
If thats all you got from my reply then thats that. lol Like I said, you can be high and mighty about buying all ure games. It wont change the fact that I dont and will only pay for those I find suitable to do so. ;)

And that doesn't change the fact that you are stealing for people who work to make the shit you pirate, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's valueless

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 04:57pm
And that doesn't change the fact that you are stealing for people who work to make the shit you pirate, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's valueless

Yep, its stealing thus the term pirate. :P Im not gonna argue that its right or wrong to do it, cause really when you listen to songs on youtube that you dont pay to listen to then everyone is a hypocrite on this matter by arguing the rights and wrongs of piracy. Games, Music, Software, Movies, Shows, Porn ect. its all the same.

MPQC
12 Feb 2011, 05:03pm
So they makes lots of monies anyway so stealing is a-okay?

Robin Hood?

Bad Dog
12 Feb 2011, 05:30pm
Yep, its stealing thus the term pirate. :P Im not gonna argue that its right or wrong to do it, cause really when you listen to songs on youtube that you dont pay to listen to then everyone is a hypocrite on this matter by arguing the rights and wrongs of piracy. Games, Music, Software, Movies, Shows, Porn ect. its all the same.

Did you really just say if you listen to songs on youtube you are pirating music?

Ok. You have just been excluded from the arguement. Please move on.


And that doesn't change the fact that you are stealing for people who work to make the shit you pirate, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's valueless

This. Completely.

Drox
12 Feb 2011, 05:32pm
Did you really just say if you listen to songs on youtube you are pirating music?

Ok. You have just been excluded from the arguement. Please move on.

You're saying it isnt the same? So its ok when someone pirates a song then uploads it for you to listen to it but shame on them for doing it? lol I never said it was pirating music to listen to youtube songs but its pretty damn close. ;) I'll leave this argument though since I dont need more pointless arguments under my belt. :P

SgtJoo
12 Feb 2011, 05:32pm
Honestly my moral compass doesn't give a fuck even if you call pirating stealing. I'm going to continue to do it.

Hazardous
12 Feb 2011, 05:52pm
Honestly my moral compass doesn't give a fuck even if you call pirating stealing. I'm going to continue to do it.

A statement that has no pertinence to the OP's question. Lack of moral compass =/= kool kid.

Prez
12 Feb 2011, 06:13pm
You're saying it isnt the same? So its ok when someone pirates a song then uploads it for you to listen to it but shame on them for doing it? lol I never said it was pirating music to listen to youtube songs but its pretty damn close. ;) I'll leave this argument though since I dont need more pointless arguments under my belt. :P

Well Youtube is kind of subject to copyright laws, as seen with audioswaps and official channels (obviously its not 100% covered but yeah). I think turning it into stealing would be to incorporate a youtube downloader, not the site itself.

SgtJoo
12 Feb 2011, 06:16pm
A statement that has no pertinence to the OP's question. Lack of moral compass =/= kool kid.

Seeing as piracy ranks significantly lower on my moral compass than murder I don't appreciate the insinuation that I lack one altogether. It's software copying, not bank robbery ffs.

MPQC
12 Feb 2011, 06:22pm
Well Youtube is kind of subject to copyright laws, as seen with audioswaps and official channels (obviously its not 100% covered but yeah). I think turning it into stealing would be to incorporate a youtube downloader, not the site itself.

Every time you load a video onto your computer it must download it. You don't need a youtube downloader to download video's, they're stored on your computer after/during you watch them.

Kuro
12 Feb 2011, 08:27pm
tl;dr 90% of it.
tl;dr depends on what you're pirating

Devil's Advocate
http://dailyshite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/piracy-600x597.jpg

Upbeat way to look at it
http://media.photobucket.com/image/piracy%20is%20not%20theft/harimaurya/3750.jpg

Human Nature
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4641/youwouldntdlacar.jpg

RANT
we used to record hits off the radio, borrow a friends album, make a copy, make a mixtape, set our favorite show to record, rent, etc. the internet has basically streamlined all this.

Personally i pirated psone games back in the day. but since then i buy all my games. I do try and buy what i can when it comes to music,video,w/e. but i do download for the most part.

If it wasn't for the internet and "piracy" i prolly wouldn't be as into anime and other things as i am now cuz i wouldn't have known about it.

Phobos
12 Feb 2011, 09:30pm
Devil's Advocate
http://dailyshite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/piracy-600x597.jpg


That's a terrible analogy. Games can be purchased for digital download.

You are supposed to purchase the license to play the game or run the software.

SgtJoo
12 Feb 2011, 09:43pm
That's a terrible analogy. Games can be purchased for digital download.

You are supposed to purchase the license to play the game or run the software.

It's not a terrible analogy.

If I have One (1) 2011 Mustang and someone steals it I no longer have a car. I have Zero (0) Mustangs.

If there were a magical cloning machine for corporeal things then I would still have my Mustang and MPQC could also have a mustang at no cost/detriment to me.

It's the same with Software.

Zealot
12 Feb 2011, 10:33pm
It's not a terrible analogy.

If I have One (1) 2011 Mustang and someone steals it I no longer have a car. I have Zero (0) Mustangs.

If there were a magical cloning machine for corporeal things then I would still have my Mustang and MPQC could also have a mustang at no cost/detriment to me.

It's the same with Software.

You had to work and slave for years to earn enough to buy said mustang (Developer) and MPQC copied it after all your work (pirate), wut?

New example pl0x

SgtJoo
12 Feb 2011, 10:46pm
You had to work and slave for years to earn enough to buy said mustang (Developer) and MPQC copied it after all your work (pirate), wut?

New example pl0x

Yeah but his copying didn't have any impact on me. Sure he didn't work for it, but that's the only exception you can really take to the whole situation.

Hazardous
12 Feb 2011, 11:03pm
Yeah but his copying didn't have any impact on me. Sure he didn't work for it, but that's the only exception you can really take to the whole situation.

What if you wanted to sell the car for monies and then he is "am not gona buy, copy -> paste!!!" :LOOL: wat then?

Kuro
13 Feb 2011, 01:07am
You had to work and slave for years to earn enough to buy said mustang (Developer) and MPQC copied it after all your work (pirate), wut?

New example pl0x

how do u know he worked hard for it? how you know he's not some rich boy who inherited his money or some wanker who's conning people outta there money.

SilentGuns
13 Feb 2011, 03:26am
Here is what I think.

You have a magic copying machine . You go to a store and make a copy of can of soda. You do not pay for your copy and leave .The store owner does not make money and will start having a hard time making a profit. Eventually so many people copy our things that you dont see a point of owning a store and quit . Many stores will do this and the company selling the products to them will start loosing money.


Giant shopping centers can handle longer but smaller corner stores are fucked.


They can push up the prices to make up the losses but they can be pushed up only so far.
------------------------------------

Afamad 2.1
13 Feb 2011, 06:21am
how do u know he worked hard for it? how you know he's not some rich boy who inherited his money or some wanker who's conning people outta there money.

Because Sgt. Joo said earlier in the thread that he's poor.

ConnorC
13 Feb 2011, 07:23am
In the end, It's not good... Doesn't mean i'm gonna stop.

Zealot
13 Feb 2011, 08:24am
I'm going to break my own rule and start posting because idiocy is rampant.


Yeah but his copying didn't have any impact on me. Sure he didn't work for it, but that's the only exception you can really take to the whole situation.
His copying didn't have an impact on you? SURELY YOU JEST. Your telling me if you dropped 30k in real life on a car and MPQC copies it that it wouldn't have an impact on how you feel? LOL.

how do u know he worked hard for it? how you know he's not some rich boy who inherited his money or some wanker who's conning people outta there money.

He gave a stupid example, I gave him the a counter example using his and replaced with it developers/pirates. Lol so much fail.

PotshotPolka
13 Feb 2011, 08:49am
Joo is a whiny troll who thinks it's witty to point out he has no qualms disregarding laws and ethics when punishments can't be efficiently enforced. It's not worth my breath to discredit his position, its been done with others with plenty of articulation elsewhere. Dig up past DRM/Piracy threads, they're far more intellectually stimulating.







































Inb4 counter "that's an ad hominen attack" complaint.

SgtJoo
13 Feb 2011, 09:16am
Joo is a whiny troll who thinks it's witty to point out he has no qualms disregarding laws and ethics when punishments can't be efficiently enforced. It's not worth my breath to discredit his position, its been done with others with plenty of articulation elsewhere. Dig up past DRM/Piracy threads, they're far more intellectually stimulating.

Inb4 counter "that's an ad hominen attack" complaint.

Ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

Afamad 2.1
13 Feb 2011, 09:48am
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/13/world-of-goo-has-90-piracy-rate/

World of Goo has a 90% piracy rate. Looks like that "Oh just one person" doesn't really apply here. You assholes are really screwing developers like this over.

Dracula
13 Feb 2011, 09:54am
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/13/world-of-goo-has-90-piracy-rate/

World of Goo has a 90% piracy rate. Looks like that "Oh just one person" doesn't really apply here. You assholes are really screwing developers like this over.

From the very same article. "We're doing ok, though. We're getting good sales through WiiWare, Steam, and our website."

Derp

Jazzyy
13 Feb 2011, 09:54am
http://i.imgur.com/3ssmF.jpg

MPQC
13 Feb 2011, 10:22am
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/13/world-of-goo-has-90-piracy-rate/

World of Goo has a 90% piracy rate. Looks like that "Oh just one person" doesn't really apply here. You assholes are really screwing developers like this over.

Those stats are complete bullshit. Read his blog (http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/). "We counted IP's on our highscores...But peoples IP's change. Oh well, let's count the same person twice."

My ip changes around 6 times a day, depending on when I connect. (My computer reconnects then assigns me a new IP.) I've played world of goo to completion twice, and that's a lot of high scores I've submitted. I must be several hundred pirates alone!

Bad Dog
13 Feb 2011, 10:26am
I'm going to break my own rule and start posting because idiocy is rampant.


Ya, coming from the guy who seems to think that piracy is ok for some things, like very expensive programs that the developers put very hard work into, or any type of music because you seem to think every artist out there is a gazillionaire who can afford to take the hit, oh ya, but if its video games NOSIREY, THATS JUST FUCKING EVIL.

Jazzyy
13 Feb 2011, 10:51am
Bad pic has already been posted.
I added in the bottom part as I was making a joke piracy was still bad.

SgtJoo
13 Feb 2011, 11:36am
I added in the bottom part as I was making a joke piracy was still bad.

By being hyperbolic in insinuating that any dev that suffers from piracy immediately goes bankrupt.

Jazzyy
13 Feb 2011, 12:09pm
By being hyperbolic in insinuating that any dev that suffers from piracy immediately goes bankrupt.
yes they immediately go bankrupt. as soon as one of them pirates they all lose their jobs

PingPong
13 Feb 2011, 01:12pm
Good.

Zealot
13 Feb 2011, 05:48pm
Ya, coming from the guy who seems to think that piracy is ok for some things, like very expensive programs that the developers put very hard work into, or any type of music because you seem to think every artist out there is a gazillionaire who can afford to take the hit, oh ya, but if its video games NOSIREY, THATS JUST FUCKING EVIL.
I said I was stealing too, twice. But Im actually trying to give a legitamite reason for why pirating games is not helping us.

And idiocy in terms of the pirates just saying that theyre just copying. No one reads the whole thread through:ohwell:

Kuro
13 Feb 2011, 06:20pm
I said I was stealing too, twice. But Im actually trying to give a legitamite reason for why pirating games is not helping us.

And idiocy in terms of the pirates just saying that theyre just copying. No one reads the whole thread through:ohwell:

and im trying to point out that you can't throw one argument out over the other. That's just how pirating works.




Here is what I think.

You have a magic copying machine . You go to a store and make a copy of can of soda. You do not pay for your copy and leave .The store owner does not make money and will start having a hard time making a profit. Eventually so many people copy our things that you dont see a point of owning a store and quit . Many stores will do this and the company selling the products to them will start loosing money.


Giant shopping centers can handle longer but smaller corner stores are fucked.


They can push up the prices to make up the losses but they can be pushed up only so far.
------------------------------------

you just solved world hunger and your complaining cuz you couldn't make a profit off of it!?

Afamad 2.1
13 Feb 2011, 06:34pm
and im trying to point out that you can't throw one argument out over the other. That's just how pirating works.





you just solved world hunger and your complaining cuz you couldn't make a profit off of it!?

People need food, and if we had a magic copying machine that could clone food then screw making a profit, use it.

Video games are just entertainment and a luxery. I'm pretty sure people in Africa don't need video games and Family Guy to survive.

u egg
14 Feb 2011, 12:18am
Or maybe you shouldnt buy such crappy games. There are plenty of games that are more than worth their price. And if you wont pay for 50 bucks, how about you dont buy it?


I don't buy crappy game like cod, that was juste a cliché :/ Last game I bought was KF for 6 bucks during steam christmas sales.. I'm having fun with it (40h in total for 6 euros). Now tell me how am I supposed to know if a game worth it if I don't try it ? Yes there're demos, but not for all the games, and most of times demos are really short and don't show the most interesting part of the gameplay of a game. If I like the game I always buy it. A friend gave me a torrent version of Borderlands, I liked it and now I'm srsly thinking about buying it. Same for Dead Space 1 (and I'm going to buy DS2 once I'll have the balls :P).

And your analogy with restaurants... stop bringing games and internet shit in real life seriously. I don't often go to restaurants because it's expensive yeah.

I don't have the money to buy a game every three months, I don't have the money to buy a fuckin legit version of 7. I had wasted all my money on my new computer (around 750 bucks) because I really needed one. I've worked 3 weeks to get this money. That's my point, softwares and games are way too overpriced. I'm not rich. Fuck them. I do steal.

Btw I did bought mc, the game worth it and Notch do need the money. Same for all the indies game.

SilentGuns
14 Feb 2011, 06:37am
and im trying to point out that you can't throw one argument out over the other. That's just how pirating works.





you just solved world hunger and your complaining cuz you couldn't make a profit off of it!?

no, it's just a example , silly.

Phobos
14 Feb 2011, 08:59am
Now tell me how am I supposed to know if a game worth it if I don't try it ? Yes there're demos, but not for all the games, and most of times demos are really short and don't show the most interesting part of the gameplay of a game.
I don't have the money to buy a game every three months, I don't have the money to buy a fuckin legit version of 7. I had wasted all my money on my new computer (around 750 bucks) because I really needed one. I've worked 3 weeks to get this money. That's my point, softwares and games are way too overpriced. I'm not rich. Fuck them. I do steal.

Btw I did bought mc, the game worth it and Notch do need the money. Same for all the indies game.
If there aren't demos, what you do is use Google to find multiple reviews on the game, and watch some gameplay videos. If you think it will be a good game to you, then buy it when you have the money. Don't torrent it, BUY IT. If you don't have the money, TOO BAD. Deal with it. Patience is a virtue. :ohwell:

duhoh
14 Feb 2011, 09:47am
nothing anyone says here is gonna change anyone's mind or behavior.

calm down people.

RaDiuM
14 Feb 2011, 12:32pm
It's good until you get caught.

SgtJoo
14 Feb 2011, 12:52pm
It's good until you get caught.

Which happens... how often?

u egg
14 Feb 2011, 01:48pm
If there aren't demos, what you do is use Google to find multiple reviews on the game, and watch some gameplay videos. If you think it will be a good game to you, then buy it when you have the money. Don't torrent it, BUY IT. If you don't have the money, TOO BAD. Deal with it. Patience is a virtue. :ohwell:

Have you even read the first part of my post ? I said I'd buy the game if I liked it, so it's the same. And I always wait till the price drops.

Phobos
14 Feb 2011, 02:19pm
Have you even read the first part of my post ? I said I'd buy the game if I liked it, so it's the same. And I always wait till the price drops.

Buying after stealing is not the same as just buying it.



Which happens... how often?

People get fined a few thousand all the time here at my uni apartment building.

RaDiuM
14 Feb 2011, 02:21pm
Which happens... how often?

That's not the point.

The point is enjoy your freebees whilst they last. Peerblocker won't save you, nor will any other program.

Dracula
14 Feb 2011, 03:16pm
It's good until you get caught.

Good luck with that lol.


That's not the point.

The point is enjoy your freebees whilst they last. Peerblocker won't save you, nor will any other program.

Pull a Houdini act with my HD, problem officer?

Bad Dog
14 Feb 2011, 04:09pm
nothing anyone says here is gonna change anyone's mind or behavior.

calm down people.

Its called a discussion.

No one is here to convert the other side, just to point out how stupid what they are doing is, or trying to justify/tell us how they dont give a fuck about what they are doing.

Jazzyy
14 Feb 2011, 08:11pm
Pull a Houdini act with my HD, problem officer?
Don't worry guys, this is not illegal.

SgtJoo
14 Feb 2011, 09:59pm
Don't worry guys, this is not illegal.

How many people actually get caught?

http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipcases.html

Jazzyy
14 Feb 2011, 10:03pm
How many people actually get caught?

http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipcases.html
I was talking about evidence tampering.

Spiffy
14 Feb 2011, 10:07pm
How many people actually get caught?

http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipcases.html

How is that morally acceptable to you? I have lost any respect I had with you idiots that think this is OK because you are selfish pricks that think they deserve luxuries they didn't earn.

Harry
14 Feb 2011, 10:43pm
Peerblocker won't save you, nor will any other program.
Finally someone mentions this other than me. :D I am sick of people who think "I block some IPs, I will be safe from le fedz".

1) Most DMCA bots scrape the tracker and DHT. You using a tracker and/or DHT (aka 99.9~9% of users)? You're exposed now.
2) DMCA bots also use numerous proxies and address ranges assigned to residential users. Congratulations, you're exposed now, even if you somehow didn't use DHT or a tracker.
3) You hurt the swarm and other legit peers who might be blacklisted for some reason.

Peerblock is just a placebo. It sadly does more harm than good.

MPQC
14 Feb 2011, 10:51pm
How many people actually get caught?

http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipcases.html

The government doesn't handle most cases. For the most part, the major recording industries (whether it be music, movies, etc), hire out small companies to go after pirates. The government does nothing. Less then two weeks ago, 6500 people were sued (http://torrentfreak.com/makers-of-the-expendables-sue-6500-bittorrent-users-110208/) for downloading a movie. Bet you didn't hear of those. The article continues to show that over 100,000 (in the US alone) people had been sued last year.

Your stats are worthless. People getting sued over IP's is common.

Afamad 2.1
15 Feb 2011, 04:08am
The government doesn't handle most cases. For the most part, the major recording industries (whether it be music, movies, etc), hire out small companies to go after pirates. The government does nothing. Less then two weeks ago, 6500 people were sued (http://torrentfreak.com/makers-of-the-expendables-sue-6500-bittorrent-users-110208/) for downloading a movie. Bet you didn't hear of those. The article continues to show that over 100,000 (in the US alone) people had been sued last year.

Your stats are worthless. People getting sued over IP's is common.

Hey, screw you asshole. What, you think you can change sides and no one will notice.

Sembrik
15 Feb 2011, 04:18am
lol

MPQC
15 Feb 2011, 07:54am
Hey, screw you asshole. What, you think you can change sides and no one will notice.

I'm a dirty pirate for pirating a tv show in which my university is forcing me too? The lack of a legal method of getting this show is also astounding. Oh shame on me. Shame shame shame. Will you ever forgive me?

SgtJoo
15 Feb 2011, 10:07am
For music piracy you could make a reasoned case about the effect being neglibile to artists (most of the money musicians make comes from gigs and shows - the money comes from fans - people who listen to their music and enjoy it are fans ). Though I think pirating new albums or music by struggling or up-and-coming artists is a bit of a stupid thing to do (but then again, not depreciating price for very old music that isn't in demand anywhere near as much is also a stupid thing to do).

Pirating games is shit, though. I'd've thought people would have common sense about this. You can't justify pirating games just because you can't be bothered to pay for them and then whinge about copyright laws and all the crap they're trying to combat it with.

I don't understand how people can bend the rules and moral standings just to suit themselves and then not realise that they're doing it. It [I]is a bad thing to do, whether you accept it or not. It doesn't matter whether it has a negative impact on the developers (which, by the way, it usually always does), why is it an acceptable thing to do just because you can do it?

If torrents etc. didn't exist and it wasn't as accessible you wouldn't steal the games from shops, so why is it ok just because it's available and only a few clicks away?

(Also, I realise that the money loss would mostly affect the shop rather than the devs, but sales figures and profits from the game would suffer and have an effect).

Movies are the same but it doesn't seem like the industry is suffering that much (or at least showing it) - probably because of cinemas.

I can't really be bothered writing much more so I'll stop with these few points:

1) Some people just need to get jobs and stop expecting things for free.
2) You can't justify piracy by saying "everyone does it, it has little effect," "I'll buy it if I like it" (which is my personal favourite) or "they're big companies hurr durr they won't suffer."
3) Just because something is available doesn't give you any more rights or any less accountability.

1) TANSTAAFL?

2) I've actually pirated Audiosurf and Minecraft and subsequently bought both. Additionally, nobody is saying the big companies don't suffer, just that their profit margin is still pretty large despite pirating.

3) Until there's an actual crackdown on piracy I'm going to continue to do it, regardless. That's just the way it is.

Afamad 2.1
15 Feb 2011, 01:00pm
I'm a dirty pirate for pirating a tv show in which my university is forcing me too? The lack of a legal method of getting this show is also astounding. Oh shame on me. Shame shame shame. Will you ever forgive me?

No, I mean you went from defending piracy to yelling at pirates.

MPQC
15 Feb 2011, 02:18pm
No, I mean you went from defending piracy to yelling at pirates.

Look through both threads and notice I yell at anyone who's presenting something stupid and/or wrong. In the last thread, you were that person, as seen by the awesome quote of why it was locked:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8594/10774528.jpg

In this thread, a stupid comment was thrown out by a person with an anti-piracy view, so I just had to set that straight.

Prez
15 Feb 2011, 02:19pm
Look through both threads and notice I yell at anyone who's presenting something stupid and/or wrong. In the last thread, you were that person, as seen by the awesome quote of why it was locked:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8594/10774528.jpg

In this thread, a stupid comment was thrown out by a person with an anti-piracy view, so I just had to set that straight.

Just to say, it was pretty funny watching the debate in the other thread though

MPQC
15 Feb 2011, 02:57pm
I think we can all agree on that...Maybe not Afamad though.

Dracula
15 Feb 2011, 03:35pm
Don't worry guys, this is not illegal.

As if I care?

Jazzyy
15 Feb 2011, 04:18pm
As if I care?
Unlike piracy this actually carries a pretty hefty charge and the U.S. legal system gives a shit about it. You'd destroy your hdd rather than face piracy charges, and in the process you'd gain a much much larger charge. Have fun in the FPMITA Prison

Dracula
15 Feb 2011, 04:21pm
Unlike piracy this actually carries a pretty hefty charge and the U.S. legal system gives a shit about it. You'd destroy your hdd rather than face piracy charges, and in the process you'd gain a much much larger charge. Have fun in the FPMITA Prison

5$ it will never happen.

nintendo64sim
15 Feb 2011, 04:54pm
Piracy is illegal, but most countries are not enough prepared against that.

MPQC
15 Feb 2011, 05:11pm
Piracy is illegal, but most countries are not enough prepared against that.

We all know it's illegal, we're looking at peoples morals here. (PS: Spamming the forums is bad.)

Zealot
15 Feb 2011, 10:51pm
Spamming the forums is bad

http://mrsjanuary.com/images/bacon.jpg

COME @ ME

c0bra067
16 Feb 2011, 01:00am
3) Until there's an actual crackdown on piracy I'm going to continue to do it, regardless. That's just the way it is.

i don't think there will ever be a 'crackdown' on piracy due to the costs coincided. the legal fees incurred by the firms usually are, in most cases, more than the dollar amount awarded since they usually never see all the money, and the cases themselves are far and few between. the reasons the corporations follow through on cases even though they lose $$ are really just to make examples of people, so next time you're downloading a song you'll have that in the back of you mind. by the back of your mind im referring to the hundreds of thousands of dollars you're going to be forced to pay. i just ripped this off computer world. (happened in 2009)


A federal jury in Duluth, Minn. on Thursday ordered Jammie Thomas-Rasset to pay six music companies $80,000 for each of the 24 songs she is accused of illegally distributing over the Kazaa file sharing network. In their lawsuit, the six music companies claimed that Thomas-Rasset had illegally distributed 1,702 copyrighted songs, though they chose to focus only on a representative sample of 24.

The laws she was charged with violating allow for maximum damages of up to $150,000 per infringed song.

i think its pretty unlikely anyone here in sg will get caught, but it happens. only a few years ago when i was in high school, a computer class some of my friends and brother was taking showed up to class to find the door locked and people going through their computers. it turns out a kid in the class had downloaded frozen throne and day of defeat among other games off of a torrent and distributed it to the class. the only problem was the dumbass was accidentally seeding it out on the torrent program he was using when the computer was on. it wasn't seeding for long, but activision (yes activision) saw this, tracked the ip to the state and told the state police. who then tracked it to the town. then to the high school and then the computer lab. the school system almost got sued and the kids almost faced legal charges. luckily the worst was a few kids getting suspended because the school cooperated, punished the kids and 'taught them a lesson'. which basically meant scaring the kids into not downloading saving the firm from the aforementioned legal costs. now the class that was basically cs 101 when i took it has had all of their open computers completely locked down and monitored.

im not saying i dont download things i shouldnt, im just saying it happens. regardless if its right or wrong, uncle sam says its wrong. uncle sam also gave 'the man' the power to charge you $150,000 a pop for each song too. among other internet crimes, people tend to think they're immune. this is getting a little off topic, but people all over are having their computers seized for this who participated in this whole ddos 'defend wikileaks' bullshit that recently happened. it hasn't been all over the national news, but at home and at school ive seen plenty in the local newspapers and blogs about people's computers being seized as evidence in raids. just another example of what seemed to be a transparent action having unanticipated reprocutions

ReGIONALS
16 Feb 2011, 06:31pm
i don't think there will ever be a 'crackdown' on piracy due to the costs coincided. the legal fees incurred by the firms usually are, in most cases, more than the dollar amount awarded since they usually never see all the money, and the cases themselves are far and few between. the reasons the corporations follow through on cases even though they lose $$ are really just to make examples of people, so next time you're downloading a song you'll have that in the back of you mind. by the back of your mind im referring to the hundreds of thousands of dollars you're going to be forced to pay. i just ripped this off computer world. (happened in 2009)



i think its pretty unlikely anyone here in sg will get caught, but it happens. only a few years ago when i was in high school, a computer class some of my friends and brother was taking showed up to class to find the door locked and people going through their computers. it turns out a kid in the class had downloaded frozen throne and day of defeat among other games off of a torrent and distributed it to the class. the only problem was the dumbass was accidentally seeding it out on the torrent program he was using when the computer was on. it wasn't seeding for long, but activision (yes activision) saw this, tracked the ip to the state and told the state police. who then tracked it to the town. then to the high school and then the computer lab. the school system almost got sued and the kids almost faced legal charges. luckily the worst was a few kids getting suspended because the school cooperated, punished the kids and 'taught them a lesson'. which basically meant scaring the kids into not downloading saving the firm from the aforementioned legal costs. now the class that was basically cs 101 when i took it has had all of their open computers completely locked down and monitored.

im not saying i dont download things i shouldnt, im just saying it happens. regardless if its right or wrong, uncle sam says its wrong. uncle sam also gave 'the man' the power to charge you $150,000 a pop for each song too. among other internet crimes, people tend to think they're immune. this is getting a little off topic, but people all over are having their computers seized for this who participated in this whole ddos 'defend wikileaks' bullshit that recently happened. it hasn't been all over the national news, but at home and at school ive seen plenty in the local newspapers and blogs about people's computers being seized as evidence in raids. just another example of what seemed to be a transparent action having unanticipated reprocutions


so activision..... backtraced him?
:LOOL:

c0bra067
16 Feb 2011, 07:27pm
so activision..... backtraced him?
:LOOL:

im not 100% what all the details were, that's just what my brother and the kids in the class were told by the administration and the police department. i talked to the teacher and he said basically the same thing. they didn't have class for a few days because the tech guys were going through the individual hard drives to find all the illegal shit they had. i guess this kid's computer was loaded with key gens and other games from what ive heard.

Bob Loblaw
17 Feb 2011, 09:34am
Havok kinda summed up my position.

It's not a good thing ever IMO, but like he said for music, they get a lot of their money from concerts. And last year I went to a Disturbed/A7X concert. Guess which concert I wouldn't have gone to if I didn't have their music? That concert. So yeah, it's still not a good thing, but like I said, without their music I wouldn't have gone.

Bullet Wound
17 Feb 2011, 11:50am
I don't have the money to buy a game every three months, I don't have the money to buy a fuckin legit version of 7. I had wasted all my money on my new computer (around 750 bucks) because I really needed one. I've worked 3 weeks to get this money. That's my point, softwares and games are way too overpriced. I'm not rich. Fuck them. I do steal.


Games are not overpriced, more effort go into them than any other form of media (probably most of them combined), stop talking about things you know nothing about.


Havok kinda summed up my position.


Same mainly.

*************

I'd like to point out anyone using the "Cloning Cars/Objects" argument are retarded. When you buy a car you're paying for the effort made to design the car, the cost to make the machines to put the car together, and the cost of the materials.

When you buy a game/movie/music you are paying for the effort made in the creation of the media, you are not paying for the movie itself, the music itself, or the game itself. The main difference is after the game/movie/music is created, it cost almost nothing to duplicate it, while a car continually cost the company money to create it.

That all being said my opinions on pirating the three are pretty different.

Music:
I pirate music all the time, and in all honesty I don't feel too bad about it. The musicians don't earn money only for their music, they play concerts and sell merchandise as well. Meaning just because you steal from them doesn't mean they still can't succeed. I'm not trying to say its right to do it, its still wrong, but given the choice to pay for music or just not listen to it, I would just not listen, or I'd go back to listening to the radio.

You can argue that artist lose money and you're right, but in some cases getting more known is more important than selling a few copies. Its the whole "If i had not pirated the game I would not have told my friend about it who would never had gotten into them and bought their stuff later on " argument.

Movies:
Movies are hurt more when they are stolen, they only earn money from theaters and sold copies, and theaters only show them for a short amount of time. I don't often steal movies, but I don't buy them. That being said I do go to movie theaters so its not like I give nothing back at all. I don't think its right to steal from them, but I think they over-budget the fuck out of most of the productions, so I don't fell too bad.

Games:
Games are really the only one of the three I think its completely wrong to steal from (though thats not to say I'm completely innocent). I say it because the only time game companies earn money is when you actually buy the games, they rarely have merchandise, so buying the game is the only form of income. Games are also expensive to create and the most time consuming with development taking years for the most part.

The biggest issue is that because all of this, game developers can't be nearly as creative or innovative as we want them to be, because the risk is just too high. That why you get all of these low quality movie knock-off games or like 4th+ sequel games. They're made because they are safe, if we want games to start getting better we have to actually buy the ones that take risks. Unfortunately stealing a game does directly result in them losing, and with no way to make that money up (like the music and movie industry can) companies do go out of business and the quality of games becomes stale.


So yea, thats my opinion.

MPQC
17 Feb 2011, 12:07pm
Alright, so let's talk a bit about ROMS and/or ISO's. I'm not talking about pirating newer games for these new consoles - Wii, Xbox, Playstation, I'm talking about the older systems.

Is it "okay" to pirate games that aren't sold in stores anymore? Anyone can go onto the internet, grab (for example), their favorite N64 game, grab an emulator, and play their favorite nostalgic game. People can get a Controller-to-USB adapter, and play these emulators just like they were the original console.

Now, we all know these games aren't sold in stores anymore, so the developers aren't going to make a dime whether you pirate or buy used. So what's your view on this?

Bullet Wound
17 Feb 2011, 12:42pm
Alright, so let's talk a bit about ROMS and/or ISO's. I'm not talking about pirating newer games for these new consoles - Wii, Xbox, Playstation, I'm talking about the older systems.

Is it "okay" to pirate games that aren't sold in stores anymore? Anyone can go onto the internet, grab (for example), their favorite N64 game, grab an emulator, and play their favorite nostalgic game. People can get a Controller-to-USB adapter, and play these emulators just like they were the original console.

Now, we all know these games aren't sold in stores anymore, so the developers aren't going to make a dime whether you pirate or buy used. So what's your view on this?

Thats fine, the alternative is the game dies away never to be played again.

c0bra067
17 Feb 2011, 01:04pm
Games are not overpriced, more effort go into them than any other form of media (probably most of them combined), stop talking about things you know nothing about.



Same mainly.

*************

I'd like to point out anyone using the "Cloning Cars/Objects" argument are retarded. When you buy a car you're paying for the effort made to design the car, the cost to make the machines to put the car together, and the cost of the materials.

When you buy a game/movie/music you are paying for the effort made in the creation of the media, you are not paying for the movie itself, the music itself, or the game itself. The main difference is after the game/movie/music is created, it cost almost nothing to duplicate it, while a car continually cost the company money to create it.

That all being said my opinions on pirating the three are pretty different.

Music:
I pirate music all the time, and in all honesty I don't feel too bad about it. The musicians don't earn money only for their music, they play concerts and sell merchandise as well. Meaning just because you steal from them doesn't mean they still can't succeed. I'm not trying to say its right to do it, its still wrong, but given the choice to pay for music or just not listen to it, I would just not listen, or I'd go back to listening to the radio.

You can argue that artist lose money and you're right, but in some cases getting more known is more important than selling a few copies. Its the whole "If i had not pirated the game I would not have told my friend about it who would never had gotten into them and bought their stuff later on " argument.

Movies:
Movies are hurt more when they are stolen, they only earn money from theaters and sold copies, and theaters only show them for a short amount of time. I don't often steal movies, but I don't buy them. That being said I do go to movie theaters so its not like I give nothing back at all. I don't think its right to steal from them, but I think they over-budget the fuck out of most of the productions, so I don't fell too bad.

Games:
Games are really the only one of the three I think its completely wrong to steal from (though thats not to say I'm completely innocent). I say it because the only time game companies earn money is when you actually buy the games, they rarely have merchandise, so buying the game is the only form of income. Games are also expensive to create and the most time consuming with development taking years for the most part.

The biggest issue is that because all of this, game developers can't be nearly as creative or innovative as we want them to be, because the risk is just too high. That why you get all of these low quality movie knock-off games or like 4th+ sequel games. They're made because they are safe, if we want games to start getting better we have to actually buy the ones that take risks. Unfortunately stealing a game does directly result in them losing, and with no way to make that money up (like the music and movie industry can) companies do go out of business and the quality of games becomes stale.


So yea, thats my opinion.

ehhh i think everyone is hurt equally for pirated products. think of it like voting. an individual vote might not matter statistically, but imagine if everyone didn't vote. the same with music, movies, games, and so on. imagine if everyone pirated music like you did. nobody would be making money and subsequently nobody would be making games, movies, and music because of this. sad fact of life i guess =/

i agree somewhat to what you said about old games and movies though. basically they won't be played again, and chances are you aren't going to go out of your way to buy the movie or game, but you'll play/watch it for shits if its just sitting there.

Bullet Wound
17 Feb 2011, 02:03pm
ehhh i think everyone is hurt equally for pirated products. think of it like voting. an individual vote might not matter statistically, but imagine if everyone didn't vote. the same with music, movies, games, and so on. imagine if everyone pirated music like you did. nobody would be making money and subsequently nobody would be making games, movies, and music because of this. sad fact of life i guess =/


Well in all instances I tried to say its wrong, if harsher laws were made (and enforced) I would probably just stop downloading music and listen solely on youtube. Movies are the same, I'm not big on them so if harsher laws were made I'd just stop downloading them. And games I would also stop downloading (though I don't do it much anyways).

The industries are the way they are now because rather than enforcing that copying the products is illegal they do silly things to discourage people from doing it. People do it because its easy and free, its as simple as that. Make it harder to obtain the music/movies/games for free, and you'll get far fewer people doing it. Start actually enforcing the laws (reasonably, not millions for a few songs) and people will stop.

Banana Joe
17 Feb 2011, 04:10pm
Alright, so let's talk a bit about ROMS and/or ISO's. I'm not talking about pirating newer games for these new consoles - Wii, Xbox, Playstation, I'm talking about the older systems.

Is it "okay" to pirate games that aren't sold in stores anymore? Anyone can go onto the internet, grab (for example), their favorite N64 game, grab an emulator, and play their favorite nostalgic game. People can get a Controller-to-USB adapter, and play these emulators just like they were the original console.

Now, we all know these games aren't sold in stores anymore, so the developers aren't going to make a dime whether you pirate or buy used. So what's your view on this?

In my opinion, I can't see any wrong in that, and if I was one of the guys behind one of the games that got pirated because it wasn't in stores anymore, I would only be happy about it still being played.

MPQC
17 Feb 2011, 04:14pm
Then applying that logic to "newer" games. You have games, such as ones for the Gamecube, which can't be bought new anymore, but you can still get them used at most local stores. Good to pirate or not? The dev's still won't make a dime whether you buy used or not.

Bad Dog
17 Feb 2011, 04:37pm
Havok kinda summed up my position.

It's not a good thing ever IMO, but like he said for music, they get a lot of their money from concerts. And last year I went to a Disturbed/A7X concert. Guess which concert I wouldn't have gone to if I didn't have their music? That concert. So yeah, it's still not a good thing, but like I said, without their music I wouldn't have gone.

So, what about indie bands? You know, bands that probably dont play those huge shows that A7 Gay play?

Stealing music really isnt any better.

Zaraki
17 Feb 2011, 04:43pm
Alright, so let's talk a bit about ROMS and/or ISO's. I'm not talking about pirating newer games for these new consoles - Wii, Xbox, Playstation, I'm talking about the older systems.

Is it "okay" to pirate games that aren't sold in stores anymore? Anyone can go onto the internet, grab (for example), their favorite N64 game, grab an emulator, and play their favorite nostalgic game. People can get a Controller-to-USB adapter, and play these emulators just like they were the original console.

Now, we all know these games aren't sold in stores anymore, so the developers aren't going to make a dime whether you pirate or buy used. So what's your view on this?

Fine, nothing more to say about it really.
it's like going to a shop to buy Doom 1...


Hurrr :(

Bullet Wound
17 Feb 2011, 06:17pm
Then applying that logic to "newer" games. You have games, such as ones for the Gamecube, which can't be bought new anymore, but you can still get them used at most local stores. Good to pirate or not? The dev's still won't make a dime whether you buy used or not.

Buying used games is actually worse than pirating, the devs get nothing (as the used games stores don't buy from them) and a person who normally would have bought the game instead pays half price and the devs make nothing. While a person pirating never had the intention of buying anyways.

Zealot
17 Feb 2011, 07:40pm
Buying used games is actually worse than pirating, the devs get nothing (as the used games stores don't buy from them) and a person who normally would have bought the game instead pays half price and the devs make nothing. While a person pirating never had the intention of buying anyways.

Sorry, but they make money off the original purchase. Doesn't matter if it gets resold, they already got their money.

Afamad 2.1
17 Feb 2011, 07:46pm
Buying used games is actually worse than pirating, the devs get nothing (as the used games stores don't buy from them) and a person who normally would have bought the game instead pays half price and the devs make nothing. While a person pirating never had the intention of buying anyways.

When buying used, the developers make money off the original purchase, while the store you're buying the used copy from gets the money from that.

MPQC
17 Feb 2011, 07:52pm
Sorry, but they make money off the original purchase. Doesn't matter if it gets resold, they already got their money.

Someone has to buy the pirated copy.

Bullet Wound
17 Feb 2011, 08:06pm
When buying used, the developers make money off the original purchase, while the store you're buying the used copy from gets the money from that.

I don't even....

Are you agreeing with me or trying to disagree by using a fact I just stated?


Sorry, but they make money off the original purchase. Doesn't matter if it gets resold, they already got their money.

Well its nice that you're sorry?

It matters completely that its resold, seeing as if it wasn't the Devs would have made money off of two games rather than one. Its not that complex to understand.

MPQC
17 Feb 2011, 08:36pm
Are you agreeing with me or trying to disagree by using a fact I just stated?

I'm pretty sure he's saying buying used is better because the used game store gets the money. I could be wrong though.

Zealot
18 Feb 2011, 12:07am
Someone has to buy the pirated copy.
True, but I'm just pointing out something Bw said.



Well its nice that you're sorry?

It matters completely that its resold, seeing as if it wasn't the Devs would have made money off of two games rather than one. Its not that complex to understand.

Your derpin' pretty hard aren't you? The way you talked about the devs not making money before implied that you think they don't make any money at all. I'm just saying that they do make money in the first place (which you forgot to leave out in your entire post).

No its not complex, you just only looked at one side. And they're absolutely no way a dev can control if their game gets resold (well recently they shut off online play). They can't dictate what people do with their products. If you bought a cd and sold it to a friend, you think your friend so hand over the costs to the store? No you already paid for it and he paid you. Simple business.

Bullet Wound
18 Feb 2011, 08:08am
Your derpin' pretty hard aren't you?

Herp :D



The way you talked about the devs not making money before implied that you think they don't make any money at all. I'm just saying that they do make money in the first place (which you forgot to leave out in your entire post).

No its not complex, you just only looked at one side. And they're absolutely no way a dev can control if their game gets resold (well recently they shut off online play). They can't dictate what people do with their products. If you bought a cd and sold it to a friend, you think your friend so hand over the costs to the store? No you already paid for it and he paid you. Simple business.

They make nothing when it gets resold, I wasn't meaning they make nothing on the original purchase. I'm not looking at it from one side, I know that devs can't control what people do with their products, that doesn't change anything though. Yes it is business, it doesn't mean that its not hurting the devs though.

Its worse because of this:

If I decide to pirate something I'm doing so because I never had the intention to pay for it at all.

If I buy it used it means I was actually willing to buy it, however I simply decided to by it used instead, because of cheaper cost more than likely.

So why it is worse to buy used? Simple, if used game stores did not exist you would still have the intention to buy it, and so would either have to go to your friend or go to a store selling it normally.

Hence if used game stores did not exist the devs would have made sales on two games rather than one. You can't stop friends from selling things/borrowing things from each other, thats true. But to have an entire store dedicated to reselling games encourages people to buy from there, and yes that does hurt the devs on newer games.



Buying used isn't worse than piracy, how can you possibly come to that conclusion?

The dev doesn't make money from a used sale transaction (but they already have for that copy), but how does that make it worse than not paying for a product (where the dev hasn't made money)?

Devs can't force people not to sell their games, however, and if people want to then they should be able to (afterall, you can do it with most other things). Also not everyone can afford the £40-50 price for a big game now.

I don't think used sales are actually as damaging to developers as everyone now seems to assume.

^^^



I don't think used sales are particularly good for developers, no, but it's good for older games, and at the very least artistically from a dev point of view it's good to know that people like your game (and are therefore more likely to buy your sequels). Cost, depreciation and peoples attitudes nowadays are to blame for the rise in used sales, but companies are doing fair things to get around it (new copy content etc.) and Steam seems to do well at selling older games for low prices and in sales (although Steam does take a significant cut).

Also the chances are that if a game is being sold as used it's for a reason (be it that the game isn't actually very good or that the game is now "old"). If it's not very good then there's no particular desire to support the developer and if it's old then the chances are companies behind it have already made the bulk of their profit from it. Afterall, it's not like people buy new games just to immedietaly sell as used.


Selling old games is fine (like after a few years being released) because at that point you're right, the devs are pretty much done getting money.

Actually people will buy the new game, play it, then sell it shortly after they're bored with it, while they can still get a decent amount back. Those are the people that are hurting the devs.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 08:45am
So what about the old games that developers still make money with? Take a look at gog.com - it has most of your PC classics being sold, and that site is a hit. The site packages the really old games (ex: dos), with DosBox, so old games are pretty much guaranteed to work on newer systems. Needless to say, the developers may or may not make money from that (as a few of them have disbanded...) but the original publisher, or the publisher with the current rights, will still make money from it.

Spiffy
18 Feb 2011, 08:50am
It's sad how you guys are arguing about how much the entertainment industry is struggling with this and ignoring the developers of useful programs like Adobe, Sony, MathWorks, etc.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 08:56am
It's sad how you guys are arguing about how much the entertainment industry is struggling with this and ignoring the developers of useful programs like Adobe, Sony, MathWorks, etc.

Sony can obviously fend for itself. If you've been following the PS3 news lately you'll know why. =p. Topics about games right now though.

Spiffy
18 Feb 2011, 09:00am
Sony can obviously fend for itself. If you've been following the PS3 news lately you'll know why. =p. Topics about games right now though.

PS3 doing well won't keep the creative software department alive. The fact it is about games is why I pointed how sad this conversation is.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 09:11am
I wasn't referring to the PS3 doing well. Piracy just entered the PS3, and Sony went apeshit over it. Court cases ahoy!

Spiffy
18 Feb 2011, 09:14am
I wasn't referring to the PS3 doing well. Piracy just entered the PS3, and Sony went apeshit over it. Court cases ahoy!

Piracy on the PS3 has been relevant for years now. Sony only recently changed their outlook from trying to sue many people to simply banning most of them from PSN forever.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 09:19am
Not so. The PS3 got a USB mod less then a year ago - Sony immediately got it banned in multiple places and sued several stores. Now, another method of piracy came out which doesn't require a usb dongle, and Sony went ape shit once again. (Though this does include banning all PSN people - in which it's TOS just changed...Yesterday I believe?)

If Sony wins its court case against Geohot, I doubt they're going to stop there. The person who through out the CFW to pirate will probably be in for quite a ride.

Spiffy
18 Feb 2011, 09:22am
Not so. The PS3 got a USB mod less then a year ago - Sony immediately got it banned in multiple places and sued several stores. Now, another method of piracy came out which doesn't require a usb dongle, and Sony went ape shit once again. (Though this does include banning all PSN people - in which it's TOS just changed...Yesterday I believe?)

If Sony wins its court case against Geohot, I doubt they're going to stop there. The person who through out the CFW to pirate will probably be in for quite a ride.

Piracy was the main issue they killed linux on the PS3. They are still sueing companies and groups but not individual users.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 09:27am
Piracy was the main issue they killed linux on the PS3. They are still sueing companies and groups but not individual users.

Agree and somewhat disagree. It's obvious they killed Linux because they thought it'd lead to an exploit. (Ironic how a huge amount of people say it lead to the PS3 being hacked, as they wanted it back.) Anywho. I doubt they will sue any individual user, such as a random person pirating X game. But I do think they will continue to sue anyone making piracy easier. Individual user being sued (http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2011/01/12/playstation-hacker-geohot-sued-by-sony-over-ps3-jailbreak/) :D. If they win his court case, why stop? It's just to make some fear, if you try to make piracy tools, you're going own.

Jazzyy
18 Feb 2011, 09:30pm
I'm personally disappointed in the PS3 scene, geohot ruined it for everyone. We didn't need custom firmware because we had linux to develop the homebrew we wanted. I hope he gets his ass sued. The pirates people who want custom firmware don't realize they're cheering on the wrong guy. Geohot did wrong by the homebrew community.

c0bra067
18 Feb 2011, 09:34pm
Not so. The PS3 got a USB mod less then a year ago - Sony immediately got it banned in multiple places and sued several stores. Now, another method of piracy came out which doesn't require a usb dongle, and Sony went ape shit once again. (Though this does include banning all PSN people - in which it's TOS just changed...Yesterday I believe?)

If Sony wins its court case against Geohot, I doubt they're going to stop there. The person who through out the CFW to pirate will probably be in for quite a ride.

that's because they're doing everything they can to make up from last years profit decline of 95%. yeah. not so good when your profits fall 95% haha. gotta do something to keep those shareholders on board.

edit: saying that, i don't think sony will win. i think its going to go back to the whole presidence where once you buy the product it belongs to you and you can do whatever you want with it. its completely in their rights to limit their liability such as apple did with a jailbroken iphone, but you purchased the software, so its no longer in sony's domain. after all, if sony says i can't crack their software that i purchased... who really owns it?


It's sad how you guys are arguing about how much the entertainment industry is struggling with this and ignoring the developers of useful programs like Adobe, Sony, MathWorks, etc.


idk what you guys are talking about claiming every developer is having trouble. look up the financial statements of these companies.

microsoft and adobe posted record 4th quarter profits this past year. adobe of which posted their first billion dollar quarter ever.

ea wasn't too impressive but posted a profit none the less and are projecting a 30% growth for fiscal year 2011.

vivendi was looking decent at a +10% profit for Q3 and will most likely release Q4 of 2010 the first of march. vivendi is i believe the worlds largest entertainment conglomerate with controlling shares of universal music group and activision-blizzard.

warner music isn't doing so hot. was down considerably Q3. wmg is the third largest music distributer so interpret that as you like. piracy. bad economy. poor management. couldn't find any evidence to support a direct link to their problems. i know that their us share was stable so idk.

as for the movie industry i think they're all doing pretty well for themselves. firms like metro-goldyn-mayer are only bankrupt right now i believe because the economy revealed their poor management. movies that premiered in 2010 from warner brothers, walt disney and paramount all made individually around and above 1.5 billion. of course that's just the box office revenue. looking at dvd sales, toy story (walt disney) made over $170 million in sales. jesus, even the wolfman which was a horrible movie made $20m in dvd sales.

MPQC
18 Feb 2011, 09:55pm
I'm personally disappointed in the PS3 scene, geohot ruined it for everyone. We didn't need custom firmware because we had linux to develop the homebrew we wanted. I hope he gets his ass sued. The pirates people who want custom firmware don't realize they're cheering on the wrong guy. Geohot did wrong by the homebrew community.

His CFW didn't enable piracy.

Neji
19 Feb 2011, 08:22am
http://www.owensworld.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/Fullsize/pictures/1194_piracy.jpg

MPQC
19 Feb 2011, 08:30am
You do realize that pictures been posted like 3 times now right?

Bullet Wound
19 Feb 2011, 08:59am
You do realize that pictures been posted like 3 times now right?

Hes a troll, he barely knows where hes posting anymore.

Neji
19 Feb 2011, 09:03am
You do realize that pictures been posted like 3 times now right?

Didn't know. Too lazy to check all 18 pages for 1 pic.

*FIXD

Jazzyy
19 Feb 2011, 01:49pm
His CFW didn't enable piracy.
Wrong.

MPQC
19 Feb 2011, 02:26pm
Wrong.

Link now.

Jazzyy
19 Feb 2011, 04:21pm
Link now.
http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/first-ps3-game-backup-working-on-geohot-cfw-3-55/#axzz1ERJSBgkV

Prez
19 Feb 2011, 04:27pm
Whoa there, aren't we not supposed to link that kind of stuff (illegal?)?

MPQC
19 Feb 2011, 04:32pm
http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/01/first-ps3-game-backup-working-on-geohot-cfw-3-55/#axzz1ERJSBgkV

So do you blame Windows for letting people make programs run? Yes!

Jazzyy
19 Feb 2011, 04:57pm
So do you blame Windows for letting people make programs run? Yes!
/facepalm

MPQC
19 Feb 2011, 05:16pm
/facepalm

All he did is allow you to run homebrew.

Jazzyy
19 Feb 2011, 05:17pm
All he did is allow you to run homebrew.
You said his CFW didn't enable piracy, it did, now you're covering your ass. His CFW did NOT come with a backup manager, but it was not NEEDED. Therefore it is still his fault, he allowed this to happen.

MPQC
19 Feb 2011, 05:21pm
You said his CFW didn't enable piracy, it did, now you're covering your ass. His CFW did NOT come with a backup manager, but it was not NEEDED. Therefore it is still his fault, he allowed this to happen.

Microsofts fault.

Jazzyy
19 Feb 2011, 07:18pm
Yup, so can we lock this now because it's now degraded to simple trolling.

Dracula
19 Feb 2011, 08:19pm
Yup, so can we lock this now because it's now degraded to simple trolling.

Yes oh master of thread locking.

Jazzyy
20 Feb 2011, 07:51am
Yes oh master of thread locking.
wow that was hilarious

Psyche
20 Feb 2011, 05:43pm
piracy is good because i get free things with it, nerds

Wicked Pissah
20 Feb 2011, 05:45pm
Piracy of ships - bad. Piracy of movies/music/etc - good.

HZK
20 Feb 2011, 06:51pm
Piracy of ships - bad. Piracy of movies/music/etc - good.

I was gonna say that:angry:

Korean Ninja
21 Feb 2011, 09:45am
Are you guys still talking about this?? WTF?

Bad Dog
21 Feb 2011, 02:11pm
Piracy of ships - bad. Piracy of movies/music/etc - good.

Noting that pretty much every comment you've made so far has been spam/useless, I'd have to say, this one takes the cake.

Bravo.

SgtJoo
21 Feb 2011, 02:32pm
Noting that pretty much every comment you've made so far has been spam/useless, I'd have to say, this one takes the cake.

Bravo.

Hey, he sums up my position well.

Rydizzle.
21 Feb 2011, 02:38pm
Good :LOOL:

Lux
24 Feb 2011, 04:42pm
Good is normative.

It's good for us who get shit for free, it's bad for those who don't get our money because of it, and those who have to pay more to cover our costs etc.

There's no one answer, just different perspectives and that why going on a holy crusade in a thread like this is stupid.

MPQC
25 Feb 2011, 01:03pm
So, we got some brand new news relating to The Pirate Bay, which I'm sure we've all heard of and know well. It seems that the Swedish government doesn't see piracy as all that bad, considering that they are helping to fund the documentary about TPB, and it's goals for an open internet. The documentaries called "TPB-AFK", and you can check out the news article here (http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-documentary-government-funding-110225/).

So it's obvious that the Swedish government is going to lose some money, as the documentary will be on the TPB, but that doesn't seem to bug them.

HZK
26 Feb 2011, 08:20am
Yes because the stuff that is most commonly pirated like films(I'm British, get over it) games and music were made by poor companies, no they were made by crazy rich companies that get most of the money from sponsors etc.

However if you look at the actual small companies, they don't really have their stuff pirated much.

So it's bad, but not as bad as you think.

DJ Spinderella
26 Feb 2011, 01:42pm
Internet piracy isn't necessarily justified, but neither is it justified when entertainment industries like the RIAA target minor offenders and hit them with astronomical fines. People enjoy the sense of freedom they have by not having to pay for their entertainment, it's as simple as that. The entertainment industries need to realize that piracy on the internet can't and won't be stopped unless the internet is shut down completely, and that's not gonna happen any time soon. I hate to say it, but entertainment providers are just going to have to adjust to the effects of internet piracy.

Tamahome
27 Feb 2011, 12:49am
Good for pirates. Bad for artists.
I mean really that's like asking the same question for robbing banks.

Dr. Freeman
1 Mar 2011, 05:27pm
There is not much you can do about piracy.. it's bad yes but lets face it hackas gonna hack and pirates gonna pirate.. I find it funny how people do get pirated software and disregard the virus' inside the so called "cracks" and then bitch because it screwed their pc up..

MPQC
3 Mar 2011, 09:31am
The “piracy is stealing” argument raises its head in the media every week and is on the lips of anti-piracy outfits and copyright holders every day. To them, every unauthorized copy is a lost sale and another small dent in the company spreadsheet which, when added to a million others, will destroy it bit by bit. To the maker of Minecraft, however, its an opportunity. Piracy is theft? You must be kidding. Lost sales? They don’t exist.

A quick look at the stats for the still-in-beta PC game Minecraft reveals a very healthy business indeed. At the time of writing the game has 4,880,757 registered users of which 1,469,513 (30.1%) have bought the game. In the last 24 hours alone, 36,618 people registered for Minecraft.

But while virtually all other game developers would be complaining about a near 70% of their market being eaten away by parasites who could not care less about the gaming industry or the fate of those who work so hard for their entertainment, Minecraft creator Markus “Notch” Persson sees the situation rather more optimistically.

Speaking during the closing session yesterday at the Independent Games Summit, Notch dismissed the notion that piracy is the same as stealing, or ‘looting’ as incoming MPAA chief Chris Dodd framed it this week.

“Piracy is not theft,” he said to those gathered in San Francisco. “If you steal a car, the original is lost. If you copy a game, there are simply more of them in the world.”

With this kind of reasoning one could be forgiven for thinking that Notch has pirate sympathies but since he’s a self-confessed member of the Pirate Party, that stance comes as no surprise.

“There is no such thing as a ‘lost sale’,” he added with a philosophy so Pirate-aligned it could be happily transcribed directly into any of their press releases. “Is a bad review a lost sale? What about a missed ship date?”

Notch was expected to talk about piracy for 5 minutes at GDC but in the event only managed about 3 minutes, describing the experience as “the scariest thing in a long time.” But while he may have only utilized 60% of his available time, he appears to have packed in value and left people wanting more, which coincidentally is his game developers philosophy too.

“If you just make your game and keep adding to it, the people who copyright infringed would buy it the next week,” he told those in attendance.

While anti-piracy zealots would insist that Minecraft has a 70% piracy or “lost sale” rate, Notch steadfastly sees his cup as rather more full than the raw percentages of his sales data may suggest, particularly by those viewing them from the perspective of an outdated business model. Indeed, despite this ‘pro-piracy’ stance, Minecraft’s position continues to improve.

Back in September last year the game had 658,429 registered players, that’s an increase of 4,222,328 in less than 5 months.

Currently 1,469,513 (30.1%) people have handed over money – in September that was 155,521 (23.62%) so its clear things are headed in the right direction. In the 24 hour period we examined in 2010, 4,910 people had bought Minecraft. Yesterday 10,381 did so.

“Piracy will win in the long run. It has to,” said Notch last year. “The alternative is too scary.”

If making truckloads of money is scary to Notch, he must be terrified right now.

Source (http://torrentfreak.com/piracy-is-theft-ridiculous-lost-sales-they-dont-exist-says-minecraft-creator-110303/)

Saw this in the news and though it was worth posting.

dwightj
5 Mar 2011, 03:32am
People might have different takes on this, it may be a good thing for some ordinary people who can't afford the originals especially if the prices are off the bat! but then it is bad and unfair for the developers since they invest intellectual and financial property to develop such software. If we continue piracy we might lose these talents and gradually die off new softwares as well.

BloodyBunneh
8 Mar 2011, 11:31am
I dont care if you QQ about pirating.
But i'm going to pirate sum games, save the money to party with.

~ Evryone who says 'Pirating is bad'
Im sure all of you downloaded song off the internet and thats bad for the artist.

Chobber
8 Mar 2011, 05:33pm
I was thinking Somalia when I went to this topic..

I also wondered how it went to 22 pages on Somalian Pirates :s

Spiffy
9 Mar 2011, 11:50am
I dont care if you QQ about pirating.
But i'm going to pirate sum games, save the money to party with.

~ Evryone who says 'Pirating is bad'
Im sure all of you downloaded song off the internet and thats bad for the artist.

You further prove your idiocy with every post. You should slow down before you die of brain damage.

BloodyBunneh
9 Mar 2011, 03:25pm
You further prove your idiocy with every post. You should slow down before you die of brain damage.

To late already got that when i whas 11, thanks.

Spiritwind
9 Mar 2011, 08:35pm
I didnt think it was that bad until my ISP gave me a letter from a movie company that was tracking the torrent ips - that I just so happened to download.
Same thing happened to my brother.
Luckily they are forgiving :P.

Amt
11 Mar 2011, 06:40am
meh piracy can be both a good and bad thing just don't do it all the time

awesomebillfromdawsonvile
13 Mar 2011, 10:30pm
Piracy preserves media. There are countless books and movies that I would never have had access to with out piracy. These books and movies were far to old or rare to be in any kind of price range that a normal person could afford, not to mention the simple fact that there is just not enough of these books to go around. With out piracy many books would just wither and fade, most of the really cool old books do not see reprints, and finding copies of them gets harder and harder over the years.

Also thanks to piracy I have access to animation and media programs that are so far out of my price range its disgusting. Now every man can have near hollywood level production software in their own home, and we can see more movies and media that is created by someone with passion and vision rather than having to see another soulless abortion of a flick put together by a board of executives who are only looking for the fastest way to make a buck.

Kuro
14 Mar 2011, 12:38am
Piracy preserves media. There are countless books and movies that I would never have had access to with out piracy. These books and movies were far to old or rare to be in any kind of price range that a normal person could afford, not to mention the simple fact that there is just not enough of these books to go around. With out piracy many books would just wither and fade, most of the really cool old books do not see reprints, and finding copies of them gets harder and harder over the years.

Also thanks to piracy I have access to animation and media programs that are so far out of my price range its disgusting. Now every man can have near hollywood level production software in their own home, and we can see more movies and media that is created by someone with passion and vision rather than having to see another soulless abortion of a flick put together by a board of executives who are only looking for the fastest way to make a buck.


qft

there's good and bad on both sides. tl;dr companies need to make thing easier accessible and not charge an unrealistic amount for it. but lets face it everything is corrupt in this world hence the existence of piracy.

It's a never ending catch-22 scenario. I don't know how much more you guys can debate this.

Chêvouÿx
15 Mar 2011, 03:38pm
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Go and be educated.

Cranks
15 Mar 2011, 11:47pm
I can honestly say i have never had interest in pirating a game. When you look at the money and effort into actually making a game you will understand why. EA has pumped over $100 mill into bioware for SWTOR, regardless of the crap EA puts out that money has to be made back form someplace so we can see another game from Bioware.

Music is completely different for me. Most of my music is on indi base labels

Wichita records - los campesinos and The Cribs
Dirty Hit - Little Comets
Dine Alone - City and Colour

My list could go on and i always make sure to buy the album if i can't hear it for free. Back in the day though when we did not have a free service like Spotify to try the music first i would pirate the music from the big money hungry band exploiting bastards like Sony. Now if a band i like sells out to a big label i generally stop listening because i know then that the music they put out may be what the label told them to put out. Or i hop onto spotify and check the album out.


Finally films. I cba with most of the new ones theses days and as a student i really can't fucking afford to spend £15 per film or ever up to £6 for a ticket to see one when it used to be £2.50...its bullshit. So i pirate the films i want to see and sometimes it hurts the actors if its an indi film (i always try to buy them like Moon for example) but when you see there houses and pay checks you can't help but think "fuck them".

The money the people get paid in the film industry is fucking stupid. People don't need that 500+ grand pay check and it really pisses me off.


Piracy can be good and it can be bad its that simple.

Kiwi
30 Mar 2011, 12:14pm
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktxzkz66yf1qzuadxo1_500.jpg

vorter
30 Mar 2011, 04:18pm
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works

Sometimes, people pirate because they can't afford it, or want to try it out before buying it. (For me, I can't afford since I don't yet have a steady income)
In some cases, pirating may actually increase sales because a player may not want to buy a game, but try it out since it's free, like it very much, and end up buying it. (For me, I originally though that Minecraft was not worth $20 but I played a pirated version just for the heck of it, then ended up buying it)

So, it does drain some money from the devs, but players gain much more than the devs lose. (And sometimes, the devs gain!)

Lux
31 Mar 2011, 09:03pm
I can honestly say i have never had interest in pirating a game. When you look at the money and effort into actually making a game you will understand why. EA has pumped over $100 mill into bioware for SWTOR, regardless of the crap EA puts out that money has to be made back form someplace so we can see another game from Bioware.

Music is completely different for me. Most of my music is on indi base labels

Wichita records - los campesinos and The Cribs
Dirty Hit - Little Comets
Dine Alone - City and Colour

My list could go on and i always make sure to buy the album if i can't hear it for free. Back in the day though when we did not have a free service like Spotify to try the music first i would pirate the music from the big money hungry band exploiting bastards like Sony. Now if a band i like sells out to a big label i generally stop listening because i know then that the music they put out may be what the label told them to put out. Or i hop onto spotify and check the album out.


Finally films. I cba with most of the new ones theses days and as a student i really can't fucking afford to spend £15 per film or ever up to £6 for a ticket to see one when it used to be £2.50...its bullshit. So i pirate the films i want to see and sometimes it hurts the actors if its an indi film (i always try to buy them like Moon for example) but when you see there houses and pay checks you can't help but think "fuck them".

The money the people get paid in the film industry is fucking stupid. People don't need that 500+ grand pay check and it really pisses me off.


Piracy can be good and it can be bad its that simple.

:LOL:

HZK
1 Apr 2011, 09:01am
Piracy is good, it saves my money.

Sniper
1 Apr 2011, 09:07pm
Piracy is bad. Which is why I have others do it for me.

Forester155
3 Apr 2011, 03:41pm
This is a complicated Issue, due to the fact that is seen as good to those who pirate and bad to the artist who are being pirated.

It poses a major problem for aspiring artists who need the funds to grow and expand their skills and market.

But SERIOUSLY, lets face a fact here. the major artists who have millions of dollars [we all know who i am talking about, literally] need to learn to be a bit less greedy and a bit more giving. they are rich enough, they need to stop whining about the 50,000 (this is a close to accurate number, they lose about .30 cents per song, about .05 cents personally, pirated) they lose per year, and start being happy about the 50,000,000 they gain a year from honest purchace of the product.

PS: Lux, its the same with all of the entertainment industry. dont rip on us film actors only, the singers and dancers live the same frivilous lifestyle. :,(

:LOOL:

Chrixz
4 Apr 2011, 07:08am
piracy is great! free games/music/movies ect..

Lux
4 Apr 2011, 09:21pm
PS: Lux, its the same with all of the entertainment industry. dont rip on us film actors only, the singers and dancers live the same frivilous lifestyle. :,(

Wat? No idea how you got that from a http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/images/smilies/f7u12/lol.gif reply.

Kraze182
26 Apr 2011, 08:23am
Good for me, bad for the developer.

PotshotPolka
1 May 2011, 02:52am
Actually, you insipid fucks, it's losses for the paying players, because the Devs (or rather their corporate overlords who have to deal with the dirty business of funding eccentric programers and do actually care about making money from products they INVEST money into) DO realize they lose money and thus there is serious discussion on what to do to counter it, granted they're well aware DRM is a stopgap measure, so in the end their best strategy is price hikes. Since 2000 games jumped from usually being $30-40 to $50 than $60 for almost all console games (Wii doesn't count, trolol). It also coincides with the the proliferation of the internet, warez, torrents, etc.

The argument of morality is invalid, as it is not the consumers prerogative to pick and choose what products he wants to pay for. Can you walk into a grocery store, eat a bag of chips, and then decide whether or not you like them and want to pay up? Better yet, if you don't have the money in the first place, what happens to the argument then?


The primary error in the asinine argument that "it lets me try stuff out" is that what you're "trying" is still IP, the only thing that the devs create. You don't pay for the CD, you pay for the CD-Key, the code that validates that you paid for the use of the product. Otherwise, yes, it's the exact same concept as sneaking into a theater, get the fuck over it.

BlackEagle
1 May 2011, 02:17pm
Actually, you insipid fucks, it's losses for the paying players, because the Devs (or rather their corporate overlords who have to deal with the dirty business of funding eccentric programers and do actually care about making money from products they INVEST money into) DO realize they lose money and thus there is serious discussion on what to do to counter it, granted they're well aware DRM is a stopgap measure, so in the end their best strategy is price hikes. Since 2000 games jumped from usually being $30-40 to $50 than $60 for almost all console games (Wii doesn't count, trolol). It also coincides with the the proliferation of the internet, warez, torrents, etc.

The argument of morality is invalid, as it is not the consumers prerogative to pick and choose what products he wants to pay for. Can you walk into a grocery store, eat a bag of chips, and then decide whether or not you like them and want to pay up? Better yet, if you don't have the money in the first place, what happens to the argument then?


The primary error in the asinine argument that "it lets me try stuff out" is that what you're "trying" is still IP, the only thing that the devs create. You don't pay for the CD, you pay for the CD-Key, the code that validates that you paid for the use of the product. Otherwise, yes, it's the exact same concept as sneaking into a theater, get the fuck over it.

I don't think with the addition of being able to download games on the internet has much to do with the rise of video game costs. I think the production of making the games has risen greatly. I don't think the game companies are losing that much money due to pirating software. There are also even measures out there to prevent you from playing illegal games now. If you download Counter-Strike off the internet you still need an account to play on the actual servers. Even with Xbox360 you can become banned for playing burned games on a disc. I don't think warez and stuff like that have risen the costs, just the amount of production needed to be put into games. Call of Duty took a lot more to fund than say PacMan. In order to earn profits they need to raise prices.

Epsilon
1 May 2011, 02:24pm
I'm sort of split on this

Some games don't offer demos or the demos are ultra restrictive (i know its to promote the game but how can you tell if its something you like it from insanely limited game play) so you can't really tell if you like it or not
So pirating helps you make up your mind but at this point I say help the Dev and players by paying for it and getting rid of the pirated copy because no one likes all the DRM games comes with these days and all these extra measure people are throwing in the games for anti-pirating purposes

If you liked it that is, if not just delete it anyway

Veggie
1 May 2011, 02:43pm
Why not just use a game review site like ign prior to buying the game?

Bad Dog
1 May 2011, 02:46pm
Why not just use a game review site like ign prior to buying the game?

Because people arent really " just trying out the game" to buy it later.

Epsilon
1 May 2011, 04:23pm
Why not just use a game review site like ign prior to buying the game?

Because all that stuff is based on opinion some people might like the game and give it a good review
I think I looked up a review for this racing game I have on my PC its United Nations I think it had a good review but I absolutely hate the game plus the demo made it seem fun too
That was $40 wasted
Although I have been cutting back on gaming since I got into college I've only been playing CS:S and GMod

stevenest
27 Jul 2011, 04:40am
Good, Good, Good :P

Hiphopopotomus
27 Jul 2011, 02:37pm
Good, Good, Good :P

I will fucking stab you.

harro
27 Jul 2011, 02:42pm
I don't think with the addition of being able to download games on the internet has much to do with the rise of video game costs. I think the production of making the games has risen greatly. I don't think the game companies are losing that much money due to pirating software. There are also even measures out there to prevent you from playing illegal games now. If you download Counter-Strike off the internet you still need an account to play on the actual servers. Even with Xbox360 you can become banned for playing burned games on a disc. I don't think warez and stuff like that have risen the costs, just the amount of production needed to be put into games. Call of Duty took a lot more to fund than say PacMan. In order to earn profits they need to raise prices.

Your argument is only valid for games with multiplayer.

Also, there are some games that you can pirate where you can still get on at least some legit multiplayer servers, I know CS is one of them and people have found workarounds for the COD series and FEAR3 also.

HZK
27 Jul 2011, 02:50pm
Your argument is only valid for games with multiplayer.

Actually what he said is mostly true, because he is talking about most games on the newest generation consoles.

And nearly every new popular game has multiplayer, so you are basically excluding a mere 2-7% of the new games; the newest products are usually the only ones that get pirated.