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Tweezy
1 Jun 2010, 08:11am
Why aren't we running a sourcemod ban system? It's so much easier to add others games, like Gmod, TF2, insurgency... Also, the ban management is better, the ui is a hell of a lot better and also there are more commands...

I think it would be good to change over from mani to SM, you can so a lot more.

Metal
1 Jun 2010, 08:18am
No, we are fine the way we are.
Also sourcemod ban i think is closing down

mapper
1 Jun 2010, 08:46am
Sourcemod sucks ass ingame when browsing trough your admin menu.

Tweezy
1 Jun 2010, 08:53am
Sourcemod sucks ass ingame when browsing trough your admin menu.

I never really use any admin menus, commands are easier. Nobody knows how to use it though :(

Harbor
1 Jun 2010, 09:06am
I never really use any admin menus, commands are easier. Nobody knows how to use it though :(

You cant use ma_ban in our servers, so you should be very concerened about the navagability of the menu's.


You cant use ma_ban to prevent ma_ban #all

Jaffa
1 Jun 2010, 09:11am
From personal experience, using the ban management system we have currently is simple and easy for the AOs to check up on ban records for steamIDs (its not perfect, there are a few bugs, such as all bans being listed as from the admin who did the most recent ban, and comments not carrying over between bans), but its user-friendly. I don't think the ban management would work with sourcebans, which would be a lot of editing/changing (correct me if this is wrong)

Tweezy
1 Jun 2010, 10:11am
From personal experience, using the ban management system we have currently is simple and easy for the AOs to check up on ban records for steamIDs (its not perfect, there are a few bugs, such as all bans being listed as from the admin who did the most recent ban, and comments not carrying over between bans), but its user-friendly. I don't think the ban management would work with sourcebans, which would be a lot of editing/changing (correct me if this is wrong)

From experience editing bans is just as easy as the one we have now, just search the steam id, click the player and increase/decrease the time.


You cant use ma_ban in our servers, so you should be very concerened about the navagability of the menu's.


You cant use ma_ban to prevent ma_ban #all


The ban system is just as easy, just cancel the ban @all command (SM) then just change the menu, shouldn't be to hard.

Daze
1 Jun 2010, 10:16am
navagability


Is that even a word?


From personal experience, using the ban management system we have currently is simple and easy for the AOs to check up on ban records for steamIDs (its not perfect, there are a few bugs, such as all bans being listed as from the admin who did the most recent ban, and comments not carrying over between bans), but its user-friendly. I don't think the ban management would work with sourcebans, which would be a lot of editing/changing (correct me if this is wrong)

Pretty much correct. I know that we use Mani/GBans because it globally bans a player across how ever many servers you want. Whereas SMBans does not have this feature meaning if we get a player complaint, the AO's need to add each ban to each server manually (long tingz).

Obviously Mani/GB has a lot of flaws/bugs. Jager/BD's/+ are working on this I think.

8=D
7 Jun 2010, 12:46pm
Is that even a word?



Pretty much correct. I know that we use Mani/GBans because it globally bans a player across how ever many servers you want. Whereas SMBans does not have this feature meaning if we get a player complaint, the AO's need to add each ban to each server manually (long tingz).

Obviously Mani/GB has a lot of flaws/bugs. Jager/BD's/+ are working on this I think.

Mani has the capibilities that types of admin like EST or SM admin doesnt have, you can alias commands and ban users that arnet in the server or offline, last time i had a server, EST or SM diddnt do that for me. You can usaly stop the exploits through third party anti-cheat systems.

Jager
8 Jun 2010, 05:12am
globalbans supports Sourcemod, as well as mani, even at the same time if you wish to define specific roles, however we have an active sourcebans site that I am testing and we announced we were... at least 2 months ago.

sourcebans = globalbans in the way it works and how it treats servers etc, there is no difference except that if i ban you in a game a use sm_ban, not a separate menu

that being said SM gives us (as in the community) flexibility in areas we need atm and mani doesnt yet. yes sourcemod/ban supports newer games, but the biggest reasons for swapping is that the maker of globalbans is no longer around, a french guy has picked up where soynuts left off, but the structure of Eventscripts itself is harder to modify to work within the newer valve engines, and since GB relies on ES, you can see the issue.

Sourcebans and its various dependencies are all supported by allied modders, they are fairly prompt in fixing issues, and since their system, metamod,(metamod does their conversion from PAWN scripting to C++/assembly in the backend) is updated all the time as new games come out, it means we are less likely to be left fixing our own plugins.

also ther are many newer automation systems designed to mesh into sourcemod and sourcebans to enable faster response time to supporters who donate, and admins etc.

lastly while the !gtfo menu was nice as it separated banning from admin, mani/gbans doesnt define immunities nor ban unban rights the way SM does. so instead of expecting admins to not abuse other admins, setting immunity does it for us

I've used beetles admin, mani, SM and a host of others in my time from 1.4 to now. that being said none is "better" then the others, but for what the community needs now, SM is fitting better, with a smaller footprint on server resources.

yes ther are some security issues within SM but that is why I am testing it and we arent just rolling it out.

since GBans supports SM, I will likely import the ban list into both sites while we settle the kinks over the summer etc, so if necessary we can simply swap back. without weeks of work.

Jaffa
8 Jun 2010, 05:52am
Looking forward to it!

2DG
8 Jun 2010, 07:05am
Well, I'd support, it's great, and at least you can see how long your bans are on GMOD.
I'm admin on a server that has sourcemod bans, it works GREAT, and you can keep track of certain people better, concerning bans.

Desum
26 Jun 2010, 09:17am
from my experience, Source Mod sucks total dick. Not taking into account 60% of the SG admins can't even use most of the SM commands, the menu itself is awful... the current ingame one is much better than that hulky thing that you actually have to go to the game menu for.

Jager
26 Jun 2010, 12:16pm
as far as the "clunkiness" of SM it uses the same menu system and popup as mani, so trying to say one is "better" then the other is difficult to do.

as far as our current setup, banning someone from the server means they are only banned on Gbans until I transfer over the banlists to the specific server. Sourcebans(SB) (sourcebans is not sourcemod, though they mesh) removes the standard SM ban options, and puts in its own. namely that a ban via SB is also written to the local banlist, and automatically defaults to storing the ban locally if communications with the SB site are down, and will then upload the bans to the site when it can get back in. IE no more losing admins or fubared bans when the site goes down for w/e reason.

SM is fairly easy to hack, as is mani, and any other plugin based admin system. SM's vulnerabilities are somewhat mitigated by SB as the site sets admin and a base protected user which on server start or map change is refreshed, so while SM_ban #all can work if your immunity is not higher then the other people playing, then you will succeed at best in banning people without ban powers. and since bans are deletable and unbannable ingame (for certain user levels) we can easily fix the issues if someone goes haywire with a few clicks actually easier to fix then Gbans atm since our version of GB doesn't support deleting bans.

again I do not plan to just roll Sourcemod and sourcebans out randomly (Hi valve, this jabs for you newell)) and the base commands are accessed the same way ingame. either sm_admin or !chat etc the only thing people may get confused with is that admin only chat is teamchat then !chat rather then Y @chat as it is atm with mani. and i can change the mani @ cmd to ! if people are that worried about switching over.

We alo have a highly capable staff of higherups who can or have used SM as much as Mani, so there is no real learning curve here other then swapping some binds to add SM_ to them

Tweezy
26 Jun 2010, 01:10pm
sm is simple to use, if you telling me sg admins can't change a @ to a ! then, well, wow...

Also, if you change gmod admin system to evolve (http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=940348) they have source bans intergrated, so it will be a global ban for both css and gmod!

Caution
26 Jun 2010, 04:30pm
sm is simple to use, if you telling me sg admins can't change a @ to a ! then, well, wow...

It's not so much they can't, it's just that some of us have used "@" for 2-3 straight years. Mistakes are going to be made, and it'd just be easy to have that rather than "!".

Bob Loblaw
26 Jun 2010, 04:52pm
What Caution said. Through habit a lot of people, for the first while anyways, are going to be using @ instead of !.

As for not knowing it, it is quite similar to mani, and when it does come out, I'm going to fiddle with it, figure everything out, and anyone who wants SM training is more than welcome to attend admin training..

Shadowex3
26 Jun 2010, 06:59pm
If you can learn to write 2010 on something within a few weeks after an entire year of writing 2009 on something you can bloody learn to use SM_ and !...

Jager
26 Jun 2010, 07:39pm
well as I said I am not rolling this out unexpectedly, nor going to leave the admin groups high and dry on what their commands and options are, the biggest shift can be mitigated by changing @ in mani when we are closer to rollout with ! so admins can get used to it (since !gtfomenu hasn't been an issue). but swapping admin systems isnt the end of the world, neither is swapping ban systems. just because Sourcebans goes live at some point doesn't mean I am deleting Gbans. i will probably keep it updated for a while until we are confident in sourcebans working as intended even when we roll out SB.

Caution
26 Jun 2010, 11:34pm
If you can learn to write 2010 on something within a few weeks after an entire year of writing 2009 on something you can bloody learn to use SM_ and !...

Lol to this day I still write 2009 on assignments occasionally.

Jager
27 Jun 2010, 01:40pm
ok so due to some more current information about globalbans and eventscripts working with CSS now, we may be moving to SM/SB sooner then expected. seems SM/SB is already working on CSS already, so we may be swapping over to get a global system back online.

that being said I will update when We have made some decisions on what we are doing.