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Metal
17 May 2010, 03:50pm
Back on topic.


Since we're sort of on the topic of rules...

People are slayed for RDM way too often. TTT is a game of suspicion, not proof. If you have solid proof, good for you. It's the traitors' own fault for not disposing of it properly. Otherwise, you should deduct who is the traitor through other evidence, such as not seeing someone for a while, or finding a burn mark where someone came from.

RDM shouldn't be "an innocent killed an innocent". That HAS to happen. The traitors should MAKE it happen. People should be able to take risks, that can be a benefit for both the innocent and the traitors, depending on how they take advantage of this. If I would define RDM, it would be "Killing with no reason to suspect them", "abusing killing people with minimal suspicion", and "Killing a detective". And, in some cases, "killing a person who has proved himself to be innocent, and confirmed to be innocent by a detective."

Admins and players often fail to see things from the other person's perspective. Things that look very suspicious to some, look innocent to others. For instance, I recently attacked two people, because to me it looked like they both came from the direction of an unidentified body that was killed a few seconds ago (although they took different paths). I accused them both (correctly) as traitors and killed both. However, one of the traitors (who was an admin, I can't recall who), said I RDMed because he was nowhere near the fight, and didn't even see the body. That's probably true. The thing is, people shouldn't be so quick to judge on what ACTUALLY happened, they should look at things from another perspective.

TL;DR

People are too quick to accuse people of RDM. TTT is a game of suspicion, not proof. RDM should only be for truly random killing without reason to suspect someone, killing detectives, or killing people repeatedly with minimal suspicion. Otherwise, let the game be played how it's meant to be: abusing the innocent's lack of knowledge of who's innocent and who's not.

Admins have logs and we can follow them to help us.
I myself only jail/slay in the next round after i look at the logs.


The best thing we should do to not get rdm is this.

If you want to kill someone and you think you have proof do it.
If they ask, explain your reason and if they still kill you, look at the logs.
If the person was not a T, ask a admin to ask the guy why did he kill "The guy" when he had a reason.

The rules are good, but we should all post on what we think should change or not be changed.

KScorp
17 May 2010, 04:12pm
If the person was not a T, ask a admin to ask the guy why did he kill "The guy" when he had a reason..

This is an outlook I don't like. Why does it matter if they killed a T or not? If they killed an innocent, maybe they were simply misled. Maybe they took a chance on some suspicions they had and failed. Maybe a T tricked them. Maybe they DID kill without any reason.

Why is there a difference between killing a T and killing an innocent? They didn't have any knowledge of what the person was before hand (unless they had some lucky "solid proof") so it shouldn't be treated differently. If I see someone standing in a room with an unidentified body, I'm going to shoot them. This can apply to a variety of different situations. Why does it matter if they were actually a T or not?

Metal
17 May 2010, 04:18pm
This is an outlook I don't like. Why does it matter if they killed a T or not? If they killed an innocent, maybe they were simply misled. Maybe they took a chance on some suspicions they had and failed. Maybe a T tricked them. Maybe they DID kill without any reason.

Why is there a difference between killing a T and killing an innocent? They didn't have any knowledge of what the person was before hand (unless they had some lucky "solid proof") so it shouldn't be treated differently. If I see someone standing in a room with an unidentified body, I'm going to shoot them. This can apply to a variety of different situations. Why does it matter if they were actually a T or not?

You completely missed what i said..


Guy #1 is IN
Guy #2 is IN
So if guy 1 kills guy 2 without saying anything, next round guy 2 can request the admin ask guy 1 what proof did he have.

All im saying is you should at least have a reason to kill as IN and if a admin or player asks why did you kill him, just tell them why.

Its not that hard, all i do is tell them my reason and if he was a IN, i would explain to them next round and that im sorry.

Not that hard



If I see someone standing in a room with an unidentified body, I'm going to shoot them. This can apply to a variety of different situations. Why does it matter if they were actually a T or not?

Um in this situation, the guy that's still alive should explain why the guy is dead.
Or you should at least ask why is he dead, but yes you should kill him but if the guy was smart he should search the body and explain what happened.

KScorp
17 May 2010, 04:27pm
I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that if an innocent kills a traitor, people generally assume there was proof, but if an innocent kills an innocent, people assume there was none.

It just gets annoying (but sometimes necessary) to ask "Why did you kill him?" several times each round.

cakeshark
17 May 2010, 04:52pm
yeah ive been kicked/banned for shit that was not rdm. i had a genuine reason to suspect that person and deem them a deadly threat. the worst happens when you kill a traitor on a deep suspicion. apparently you have to wait for a traitor to shoot at you or someone else before you can kill them - according to some. which i think is silly. sometimes you dont have time to bring the traitor to court and convict them with witnesses.




oh and if you walk in to a room with an unID'd body - you dont have time to ask the person in there why they haven't ID'd that body. chances are that person is a traitor and is gonna kill you the second they see you.

Metal
17 May 2010, 05:06pm
yeah ive been kicked/banned for shit that was not rdm. i had a genuine reason to suspect that person and deem them a deadly threat. the worst happens when you kill a traitor on a deep suspicion. apparently you have to wait for a traitor to shoot at you or someone else before you can kill them - according to some. which i think is silly. sometimes you dont have time to bring the traitor to court and convict them with witnesses.




oh and if you walk in to a room with an unID'd body - you dont have time to ask the person in there why they haven't ID'd that body. chances are that person is a traitor and is gonna kill you the second they see you.

well shit happens.
Just stick to explaning your kills

rokart
17 May 2010, 06:06pm
Also, for those rdm victims out there, try not to get too pissed off. Laugh it off if u can but raging against people who u thought rdmed u is not gonna solve anything. If u or others were rdmed multiple times by the same person, just talk to an admin.

SoulKeeper
17 May 2010, 06:09pm
Traitors don't have seeall, they can't tell when there's a body near them- nor does the person solidly know that they came from. Though, this is generally legit. Except for the scorch mark, it can be caused by exploding barrels, gas cans, and of course flairs. And it stays there, I could burn a body at the start and you'd kill someone 2 minutes until the end of the round for it.

inb4 "he lok at me funi"

Walking in on someone who didn't ID a body- kill.

Asking someone why they're injured and they don't answer/ don't have a good answer- kill. (If they say they were randomly shot, kill them)

Hearing gunshots from an area and someone walks away with the same weapon- try and get there, if they stick to the path and cautiously examine you kill.

Someone "aiming" at you- don't kill.

ext ext

Bad Dog
17 May 2010, 06:42pm
I like the whole Explain your kill. I suspect people, but I wont kill them until I get some proof. You dont have to wait for them to attack you, you just have to be able to back up your kill. Its not that hard, and I only punish for RDMing when its blatent and done multiple times.

Having said that, TTT IS CURRENTLY FINE, WE NEED NO RULE CHANGES ATM, PLEASE LEAVE IT BE. THE ADMINS WHO ARE ON DAILY (Me, Potshot, Spartan, ect..) KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND ENFORCE THE RULES WHEN NEED BE.

Metal
17 May 2010, 06:51pm
I like the whole Explain your kill. I suspect people, but I wont kill them until I get some proof. You dont have to wait for them to attack you, you just have to be able to back up your kill. Its not that hard, and I only punish for RDMing when its blatent and done multiple times.

Having said that, TTT IS CURRENTLY FINE, WE NEED NO RULE CHANGES ATM, PLEASE LEAVE IT BE. THE ADMINS WHO ARE ON DAILY (Me, Potshot, Spartan, ect..) KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND ENFORCE THE RULES WHEN NEED BE.

Ha forgetting me.
Red= So true.

SoulKeeper
17 May 2010, 07:17pm
im better admin than u all

cakeshark
17 May 2010, 07:18pm
well shit happens.
Just stick to explaning your kills

HA! i would have loved a chance to explain my kills. these kick/bans happened when the server was new and the admins were mostly fresh to the game too. pretty much someone thinks they got killed unfairly and they treated the game like it was PB or something.
Oh well, hasn't happened in awhile. the only people that complain now are players new to ttt.

Harpr33t
18 May 2010, 10:10am
I ask a question or two then I shoot.

2DG
18 May 2010, 12:45pm
Less rules, less rules...
Actually Spartan is the one that does it withoud proof, he is RIGHT...
I didn't really think about it until now, he kills people if he believes they are the traitor, even if they're not...
IT'S WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
Otherwise people won't kill a traitor even if they know it because they think they'll be punished..
It would be extremely gay, just leave it alike... don't punish RDM'er unless the person in question constantly RDM's people for no reason and kills detectives and such.
Those are the situations admins should be able to help.

For example, I've been in amsterville once, I got shot by a shotgun... that guy that shot [had a disguiser] me ran away, I ran out of the store, I saw a guy sneaking up behind me with a shotgun, I got scared and killed him.
Is that RDM...?
NO IT'S NOT, chances are he is a traitor ofcourse, but did not shoot.
It's just the bad luck of the game, you could be wrong place wrong time.
I raged about it multiple times but I can pretty much handle it now.
Just get used to it, there will always be situations where you will be killed withoud doing anything, just because you were at the wrong spot.

KScorp
18 May 2010, 02:10pm
Less rules, less rules...
Actually Spartan is the one that does it withoud proof, he is RIGHT...
I didn't really think about it until now, he kills people if he believes they are the traitor, even if they're not...
IT'S WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
Otherwise people won't kill a traitor even if they know it because they think they'll be punished..
It would be extremely gay, just leave it alike... don't punish RDM'er unless the person in question constantly RDM's people for no reason and kills detectives and such.
Those are the situations admins should be able to help.

story

Exactly. The problem is explaining these situations. Even WITH an explanation, people still complain and refuse to believe it. Especially the person who got killed. They often get a rod stuck up their ass when they're killed (especially when a traitor is killed) and won't stop trying to accuse you of RDM, sometimes with obvious proof. Just make sure it wasn't "random", and the problem ends there.

Metal
18 May 2010, 02:16pm
Exactly. The problem is explaining these situations. Even WITH an explanation, people still complain and refuse to believe it. Especially the person who got killed. They often get a rod stuck up their ass when they're killed (especially when a traitor is killed) and won't stop trying to accuse you of RDM, sometimes with obvious proof. Just make sure it wasn't "random", and the problem ends there.

and if they QQ about it, dont worry.
I just say, explain you kills.

Nasu
19 May 2010, 06:10am
Less rules, less rules...
Actually Spartan is the one that does it withoud proof, he is RIGHT...
I didn't really think about it until now, he kills people if he believes they are the traitor, even if they're not...
IT'S WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
Otherwise people won't kill a traitor even if they know it because they think they'll be punished..
It would be extremely gay, just leave it alike... don't punish RDM'er unless the person in question constantly RDM's people for no reason and kills detectives and such.
Those are the situations admins should be able to help.

For example, I've been in amsterville once, I got shot by a shotgun... that guy that shot [had a disguiser] me ran away, I ran out of the store, I saw a guy sneaking up behind me with a shotgun, I got scared and killed him.
Is that RDM...?
NO IT'S NOT, chances are he is a traitor ofcourse, but did not shoot.
It's just the bad luck of the game, you could be wrong place wrong time.
I raged about it multiple times but I can pretty much handle it now.
Just get used to it, there will always be situations where you will be killed withoud doing anything, just because you were at the wrong spot.

No. If the game was only about suspicion, it would be utter bullshit and people would just die in the first 2 minutes when traitors try to kill everyone as fast as possible so people can't kill them for "suspicion". This game should be about proof. If you think it's someone, follow them and find proof. Of course killing for suspicion shouldn't alwasy be "rdm". Atleast try to find proof before killing.

And Spartan is just a nab

2Kill
3 Jun 2010, 02:57pm
Can we make a rule that any untrue accusations by the traitor that could result in a banned player be explained at the end of the round? I think that it is indeed clever to trick people but when no one figures it out it tends to end badly for someone.

PingPong
4 Jun 2010, 08:36am
Good example of rdm.
Innocent kills 2 traitors and 1 innocent in crossfire, detective then ends up killing the guy who killed the 2 traitors because the innocent was his friend or supposedly his guard. I ended up slaying that detective for obvious rdm.

Oh hi soulkeeper

duhoh
4 Jun 2010, 11:08am
i wish i got a chance to explain my activities more. some people seem trigger happy with the admin protocols.