I'm normally not one for conspiracies

[PotshotPolka]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

Thoughts?

[Delirium]

If its credible then Al Gore just got fucked. But then again the bloggers bio does say this "James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything."

[Jaffa]

Most of that has long been known, ever read State of Fear by Micheal Crichton?

[Wrathek]

Yeah I've been reading about it for a few days already. After reading through a couple of snips of some emails, i've determined that having an agenda beyond "the greater good" whilst politicking is the worst idea ever.

Can you believe they actually made a veiled cheer about that reporter that was a skeptic dying?

[Red]

I've always known it was a bullshit excuse for governments to gain more power over the masses.

Hopefully this continues to blow up.

[b0red]

At least some good came out of it since everyone is recycling a lot more and watching what products they buy. But sucks that they lied straight to our faces about it, at least a noble black hatter did some good and exposed the truth.

[PotshotPolka]

At least some good came out of it since everyone is recycling a lot more and watching what products they buy. But sucks that they lied straight to our faces about it, at least a noble black hatter did some good and exposed the truth.

LOL. Ahh, poor boy. Ever heard of an iron triangle?

[b0red]

LOL. Ahh, poor boy. Ever heard of an iron triangle?

Good sir, I have not.

[PotshotPolka]

Good sir, I have not.

An iron triangle is a concept when an interest group (Climate change activists, alternate energy lobbyists) a government agency (EPA, DOT, etc) and Congress (especially Congressional committees)

Essentially, these groups get government officials' and Congress' ears and they don't let go. Many cases have existed in the past, like nuclear energy, the tabacco industry, arguably the insurance industry, and now possibly environmentalism (rather anthropogenic climate change, I'm not going to argue that nuclear waste is good, mkay)

If you apply this theory, the interest group(s) are attempting to enact heavy regulation and carbon capping on existing energy industries to corner the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_triangle


These groups rarely have room to blatantly lie though, since counter-interest groups would call them out on it and demerit them. This is the first time I've seen something like this, but to be honest climate change skeptics HAVE been demonized.

[Red]

but to be honest climate change skeptics HAVE been demonized.

Understatement of the month. I feel like I just raped a baby in front of a senior citizen's home every time I tell someone I don't buy into that climate change bullshit.

[Mephisto]

Well there are the things I don't know for sure: I think that the government and companies exploit the global warming crisis to make some cash like any popular concept.

And there are the things I know: there was snow on front of my house on october 17th, that's a first. There are many examples in the last few weeks in which we keep breaking records.

Now there are the things we have to keep in mind: If there is a global warming, it might not be caused by humans, but only a natural curve. Many energy companies looses money because of the global warming crisis, it would be so appropriate to come out with some conspiracy so that people looses their trust in global warming.

There are the things that are still interesting: There are scientists that took the Al Gore's curve of Co2/global warming, they compared it to the sun's fluctuation, the curves of the sun's fluctuation were the same, just a bit earlier than the Co's curve. That's personally the version that I believe. (ain't hard to find information about it)

[PotshotPolka]

Understatement of the month. I feel like I just raped a baby in front of a senior citizen's home every time I tell someone I don't buy into that climate change bullshit.

Try living on a college campus and say it.


Well there are the things I don't know for sure: I think that the government and companies exploit the global warming crisis to make some cash like any popular concept.

And there are the things I know: there was snow on front of my house on october 17th, that's a first. There are many examples in the last few weeks in which we keep breaking records.

Now there are the things we have to keep in mind: If there is a global warming, it might not be caused by humans, but only a natural curve. Many energy companies looses money because of the global warming crisis, it would be so appropriate to come out with some conspiracy so that people looses their trust in global warming.

There are the things that are still interesting: There are scientists that took the Al Gore's curve of Co2/global warming, they compared it to the sun's fluctuation, the curves of the sun's fluctuation were the same, just a bit earlier than the Co's curve. That's personally the version that I believe. (ain't hard to find information about it)

If it is arguably a scam, its either for the profit of the alternative energy companies, or if you really want to be conspiratorial, a plan to curb oil use because its production has peaked and potentially a threat if demand exceeds supply by any great deal. Though we are finding more and more natural gas by the day.

[Jaffa]

Surely if global warming is a scam, it would be for the benefit of the environmental NGOs who use it for lawsuits and gaining donations/funding?, and not for govt/big business?

If global warming is occuring, the effects won't be felt now, they will be felt over a much larger period. The reason for all these weather "records" we keep hearing about, is because the climate is random/chaotic, and therefore doesn't fall into the same pattern of weather year after year, there will always be some odd weather days/weeks.

[Lux]

......I didn't even expect better

[Jazzyy]

Well there are the things I don't know for sure: I think that the government and companies exploit the global warming crisis to make some cash like any popular concept.

And there are the things I know: there was snow on front of my house on october 17th, that's a first. There are many examples in the last few weeks in which we keep breaking records.

Now there are the things we have to keep in mind: If there is a global warming, it might not be caused by humans, but only a natural curve. Many energy companies looses money because of the global warming crisis, it would be so appropriate to come out with some conspiracy so that people looses their trust in global warming.

There are the things that are still interesting: There are scientists that took the Al Gore's curve of Co2/global warming, they compared it to the sun's fluctuation, the curves of the sun's fluctuation were the same, just a bit earlier than the Co's curve. That's personally the version that I believe. (ain't hard to find information about it)
its kind of funny how people say Al Gore figured out global warming, it was a bunch of fucking scientists, al gore wanted political gain and instead got pretty much, political suicide.
Irony at it's best.

also: to my knowledge, a lot of companies LOST money from all of this change shit

[Frostbyte]

Most of that has long been known, ever read State of Fear by Micheal Crichton?

Yes I have. Great book!

[Elleon]

Well considering I will be getting a degree in alterntive energy, I really hope everything picks up so i can live in luxury. Knowing that some shit is getting a bit cleaner because of this doesn't exactly get my knickers in a bunch etiher.

Bitch and complain about one conspiracy after another you nuts.

Imma be in my solar powered house, driving my electric/hybrid to work, tending my garden in back, swimming in my nice natural pool, and cooking on the grill all week. I honestly could care less when I am saving, relaxing, and eating steak every night of the week.

FU bitches, im going Green and telling everyone global warming is going to kill us come 2012.

[PotshotPolka]

Well considering I will be getting a degree in alterntive energy, I really hope everything picks up so i can live in luxury. Knowing that some shit is getting a bit cleaner because of this doesn't exactly get my knickers in a bunch etiher.

Bitch and complain about one conspiracy after another you nuts.

Imma be in my solar powered house, driving my electric/hybrid to work, tending my garden in back, swimming in my nice natural pool, and cooking on the grill all week. I honestly could care less when I am saving, relaxing, and eating steak every night of the week.

FU bitches, im going Green and telling everyone global warming is going to kill us come 2012.


I'm glad you think mass-media manipulation by interest groups influencing popularly ELECTED officials is a good thing. Have fun wiping your ass with your degree.

[Red]

I honestly could care less when I am saving, relaxing, and eating steak every night of the week.

All your "savings" will be wiped out when green policies raise electric prices through the roof, coupled with the fact that "Savings" are garnered after you buy over priced fluorescent light bulbs, hybrid cars (which create more pollution to manufacture and dispose of) with highly toxic batteries, obscene amounts of solar panels and whatever other energy "saving" devices which cost more than standard devices.

Plus judging from your enjoyment of things digital, you're hypocrisy is hilarious. Do you know how much CO2 the internet puts out while people bitch online about how much CO2 people use? Or how much electricity computers/monitors/tv/gaming consoles waste? Not to mention the resources raped from mother earth to produce all the electronics we love and to dispose of them, now that's another story in and of itself.

Eventually they'll ban cows because they fart too much.

Buy a megaroll pack of charmin, it's a lot cheaper than a Green Degree made out of recycled tree.


All that and the simple fact that this green global warming shit is a scam fad that is already starting to unravel like every other scare tactic environmentalist whacko horseshit idea that the media and politicians have latched on to in the past.

Get a degree in Nuclear Energy, something actually Viable that the world will have to turn to once it realizes that no matter how fucking green they want to be they'll have to face the fact that the human population is growing and there's no fucking way we can build enough solar panels/wind turbines/magic fairy dust collectors to provide power to the whole population.

[Wrathek]

All your "savings" will be wiped out when green policies raise electric prices through the roof, coupled with the fact that "Savings" are garnered after you buy over priced fluorescent light bulbs, hybrid cars (which create more pollution to manufacture and dispose of) with highly toxic batteries, obscene amounts of solar panels and whatever other energy "saving" devices which cost more than standard devices.

Plus judging from your enjoyment of things digital, you're hypocrisy is hilarious. Do you know how much CO2 the internet puts out while people bitch online about how much CO2 people use? Or how much electricity computers/monitors/tv/gaming consoles waste? Not to mention the resources raped from mother earth to produce all the electronics we love and to dispose of them, now that's another story in and of itself.

Eventually they'll ban cows because they fart too much.

Buy a megaroll pack of charmin, it's a lot cheaper than a Green Degree made out of recycled tree.


All that and the simple fact that this green global warming shit is a scam fad that is already starting to unravel like every other scare tactic environmentalist whacko horseshit idea that the media and politicians have latched on to in the past.

Get a degree in Nuclear Energy, something actually Viable that the world will have to turn to once it realizes that no matter how fucking green they want to be they'll have to face the fact that the human population is growing and there's no fucking way we can build enough solar panels/wind turbines/magic fairy dust collectors to provide power to the whole population.

Or EE, electricity will always be here :D

[LegalSmash]

Well considering I will be getting a degree in alterntive energy, I really hope everything picks up so i can live in luxury. Knowing that some shit is getting a bit cleaner because of this doesn't exactly get my knickers in a bunch etiher.

Bitch and complain about one conspiracy after another you nuts.

Imma be in my solar powered house, driving my electric/hybrid to work, tending my garden in back, swimming in my nice natural pool, and cooking on the grill all week. I honestly could care less when I am saving, relaxing, and eating steak every night of the week.

FU bitches, im going Green and telling everyone global warming is going to kill us come 2012.

I really hope you are playing. You may as well get a degree in "anal gaping exercise with a glass dildo" because you will likely get more tube"steak" with the likely career your going to end up with after choking down meat than with this "alternative energy degree". Also, MEAT production costs MORE energy than most other forms of farming.. enjoy your recycled semen and soy.

Alternative energy, much like the "native american drum" is not a real major. Its like majoring in "prelaw". You just took a bunch of shit classes that "could" add up to a degree... but won't in the eyes of employers and grad school, and leaves you with a lot of student debt and a free ticket to the unemployment benefits office.

Get a real major: Chemistry, Physics, Biology, and THEN go into RESEARCH if you want to MAYBE influence something related to "alternative energy"... the likely alternative being nuclear produced electric (enter item here)... but then you'd be no different than the scientists that are bitching about change to begin with... broke, and complaining to man-bear-pig.

I hope you have money for land, because a "natural pool" is called a fucking lake. They don't have much land left in England.. and a GREAT deal of the lakeside land is taken up here in the states... by people who studied things a LOT more useful than a drummed up major to get badly groomed teens with body odor and lip rings to borrow loans at 6% with a variable 4 point curve and piss money away to the provost of "University".




I'm glad you think mass-media manipulation by interest groups influencing popularly ELECTED officials is a good thing. Have fun wiping your ass with your degree.

Lulz.


All your "savings" will be wiped out when green policies raise electric prices through the roof, coupled with the fact that "Savings" are garnered after you buy over priced fluorescent light bulbs, hybrid cars (which create more pollution to manufacture and dispose of) with highly toxic batteries, obscene amounts of solar panels and whatever other energy "saving" devices which cost more than standard devices.

Plus judging from your enjoyment of things digital, you're hypocrisy is hilarious. Do you know how much CO2 the internet puts out while people bitch online about how much CO2 people use? Or how much electricity computers/monitors/tv/gaming consoles waste? Not to mention the resources raped from mother earth to produce all the electronics we love and to dispose of them, now that's another story in and of itself.

Eventually they'll ban cows because they fart too much.

Buy a megaroll pack of charmin, it's a lot cheaper than a Green Degree made out of recycled tree.

and it will have more use.

All that and the simple fact that this green global warming shit is a scam fad that is already starting to unravel like every other scare tactic environmentalist whacko horseshit idea that the media and politicians have latched on to in the past.

Get a degree in Nuclear Energy, something actually Viable that the world will have to turn to once it realizes that no matter how fucking green they want to be they'll have to face the fact that the human population is growing and there's no fucking way we can build enough solar panels/wind turbines/magic fairy dust collectors to provide power to the whole population.

[Prez]

Quite ironically, we're studying Climate Change in school right now, and a PhD from UCLA (now teaches at a local university) came to our school to talk about climate change, and all that jazz. He commented on how all the emails were legitimate, and how many of the scientists will be fired/sacked. Talk about justice!

[Red]

It's not justice until they quit trying to give tax payers gaping assholes over climate change taxes/fees/etc.

[Elleon]

It appears that sarcasm moves right over your heads. Oh well, this didn't turn out to be a complete waste of time after all. I am glad you could join us Legal, your comments really show the intelligence and elegancy fit for this thread.

Come on guys, lighten up. If you feel like trying to educate someone, you need to contemplate a different approach. I wouldn't mind participating in a sensible debate some time, but I am no magician.

***

Thanks for the half assed advice and warnings of apparently, inevitable doom. Although there are a number of difference results we can obtain from "Global Warming", in general, people are going to believe it or they aren't. From what I can see, even if the seams unravel, people prefer to do shit cleaner. They will continue to recycle and continue to move towards something more efficient and self sustaining. People make money from this and create perfectly reasonable and successful lives.

I am gambling here and my bet is on, "stupidity will prevail", as it typically does, but whether or not mass-media manipulation wins or an over abundance of greenhouse gases, I say taking a little time to put up solar panels and adding a bit of wiring here and there, is well worth the cash.

Ethics are an entirely difference debate. I will join you there at a different date.

[PotshotPolka]

It appears that sarcasm moves right over your heads. Oh well, this didn't turn out to be a complete waste of time after all. I am glad you could join us Legal, your comments really show the intelligence and elegancy fit for this thread.

Come on guys, lighten up. If you feel like trying to educate someone, you need to contemplate a different approach. I wouldn't mind participating in a sensible debate some time, but I am no magician.

***

Thanks for the half assed advice and warnings of apparently, inevitable doom. Although there are a number of difference results we can obtain from "Global Warming", in general, people are going to believe it or they aren't. From what I can see, even if the seams unravel, people prefer to do shit cleaner. They will continue to recycle and continue to move towards something more efficient and self sustaining. People make money from this and create perfectly reasonable and successful lives.

I am gambling here and my bet is on, "stupidity will prevail", as it typically does, but whether or not mass-media manipulation wins or an over abundance of greenhouse gases, I say taking a little time to put up solar panels and adding a bit of wiring here and there, is well worth the cash.

Ethics are an entirely difference debate. I will join you there at a different date.

I refuse to debate with someone that doesn't see how tricking people on a controversial, debatable topic with no clear consensus is unethical, or rather doesn't care that it is unethical. And it isn't "a little wiring here and there" the sheer amount of resources necessary to mandate an overhaul essentially EVERY industry in the world to less-efficient systems that are yet to be proven as a FEASIBLE source of power.

If you want to argue "I want clean public air, water, and land" fine, do so. I agree that pollution is a negative externality and must be addressed. I will not however connect those points with a completely unrelated theory of anthropogenic climate change fueled by a pack of numbfuck Neo-Luddites.

[Elleon]

I refuse to debate with someone that doesn't see how tricking people on a controversial, debatable topic with no clear consensus is unethical, or rather doesn't care that it is unethical.

Wait a minute, this is a debate? Who said something was unethical?

I enjoy quoting others just as much as the next, but perhaps you may want to read the text you are quoting before you make such moving replies. Go ahead and refuse to "debate" with me, not that conversing with you has actually been anything aside from one person making a statement and another making insignificant replies.


And it isn't "a little wiring here and there" the sheer amount of resources necessary to mandate an overhaul essentially EVERY industry in the world to less-efficient systems that are yet to be proven as a FEASIBLE source of power.

For me, it is a little bit of wiring here and there, but then again, I was talking about a single individual, not a nation, and i am pretty sure that was the necesarry response to the personal attacks being given.


If you want to argue "I want clean public air, water, and land" fine, do so. I agree that pollution is a negative externality and must be addressed. I will not however connect those points with a completely unrelated theory of anthropogenic climate change fueled by a pack of numbfuck Neo-Luddites.

I don't really care to argue about it, do you? That seems to be the case considering you and others continuously bring it up time and time again. Got something to get off your chest? Who are you quoting there anyways?

Show me your credentials and then show me theirs. No offense intended, but unless you are on the same level as them, I would hardly insinuate you can look down on them.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ~ Plato

It would be nice if I could simply make my own quotes than rely on another's, but then again, I don't try to pretend I know every facet of topics either. I simply say the unknown is the unknown and what will happen will eventually happen, one way or another.

You do what you can with what you have and pretending to do otherwise is nothing more than merely pretending.

[Red]

Tasty tasty koolaid

[PotshotPolka]

Backpedaling is cool, m'kay.

[LegalSmash]

Wait a minute, this is a debate? Who said something was unethical?

I enjoy quoting others just as much as the next, but perhaps you may want to read the text you are quoting before you make such moving replies. Go ahead and refuse to "debate" with me, not that conversing with you has actually been anything aside from one person making a statement and another making insignificant replies.

The persons who exaggerated the degree of risk posed by something are unethical. I find your characterization of the various replies here as "insignificant" laughable... they are quite significant for the most part, on the other hand, you bukkakke on the keyboard and we are supposed to act as if it is Hemmingway?

For me, it is a little bit of wiring here and there, but then again, I was talking about a single individual, not a nation, and i am pretty sure that was the necesarry response to the personal attacks being given.

The fact you think it is THAT easy to "go green" to the degree required to reduce the nation's dependence on oil and subsequent financial weakness to third world rogue regimes is what is truly comical here. Understand this, YOU deciding to pretend you are on waterworld, grow your own garden, and run on a hamster wheel to power a friction generator to supplement your one hour electricity worth of computer power you will get from a roof of solar panels is as insignificant as it gets in terms of contribution to "green". Its called inconveniencing yourself pointlessly.

In order to actually make a difference regarding fossil fuel dependence, the nation as a whole, and the nations we trade with must change out their systems at once, and that would cause pandemonium. We can't insure our citizens who actually pay taxes without a circle jerk between congress and the healthcare companies, who by all means are parasites on humanity... yet you think we can SWITCH ALL systems quickly enough on a worldwide scale and the oil companies not block it here in congress, while the rest of the world's equivalents do it there? Have you thought of the mass starvation and fallout that will occur when the switch is going on? Wait, you are just going to feed them on recyclable, organic hope, right?

I don't really care to argue about it, do you? That seems to be the case considering you and others continuously bring it up time and time again. Got something to get off your chest? Who are you quoting there anyways?
Well, now you can argue, and actually try to make a point, or continue to fag it up and drop the random quip here and there like the clueless child you are

Show me your credentials and then show me theirs. No offense intended, but unless you are on the same level as them, I would hardly insinuate you can look down on them.

I hold a doctorate that actually matters to the running of the country, and it didn't need to come from Harvard's school of "Magic: the gathering and anime masterbation. This is the same kind of doctorate you will look for when your precious "learned ones" manage to go "oops we were wrong" and you want to sue them because your kid has Granulomas in his lungs due to THEIR Advice. BTW, you also left out that it was retards with "their credentials" that "oops"ed three mile island, chernobyl, and contribute hundreds of thousands of man hours to making 'lipitor' a drug that actually REQUIRES you to STAY on it, at a risk of heart attack DESPITE being made to LOWER CHOLESTEROL TO PREVENT HEART ATTACKS. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, you elitist retard.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ~ Plato

Then those scientists are fools, they have not shut up since the seventies, and less so since the president took office. What your ivory tower "wise men" fail to realize is that when the alternative power industry WAS looking good, circa the nuke plant buildup in the 50's-90's, the scientists threw their lot in with the grass roots pussies that started crying a river about 3 mile island and Chernobyl, liberal retards yelling "protect the rain forest and don't buy conflict coffee" while they scream "NOT IN MY BACKYARD" to prison to work programs and power plants that are safer than the depraved, coke fueled BDSM scat sex they engage in when their beige window shades are drawn. Scientists fucked themselves there by allying themselves inappropriately.


It would be nice if I could simply make my own quotes than rely on another's, but then again, I don't try to pretend I know every facet of topics either. I simply say the unknown is the unknown and what will happen will eventually happen, one way or another.

You are right, you don't know shit

You do what you can with what you have and pretending to do otherwise is nothing more than merely pretending.

That was about as pointless as a fucking golf ball... good job.



my replies are in bold.

[Drox]

Well considering I will be getting a degree in alterntive energy, I really hope everything picks up so i can live in luxury. Knowing that some shit is getting a bit cleaner because of this doesn't exactly get my knickers in a bunch etiher.

Bitch and complain about one conspiracy after another you nuts.

Imma be in my solar powered house, driving my electric/hybrid to work, tending my garden in back, swimming in my nice natural pool, and cooking on the grill all week. I honestly could care less when I am saving, relaxing, and eating steak every night of the week.

FU bitches, im going Green and telling everyone global warming is going to kill us come 2012.

In my opinion, humans may only be a small part of climate change. Even before humans had fancy cars and factories killing the ozone, the earth has gone thru severer climate changes in its past. So I actually believe if our earth does go into a climate change cycle then there isnt much we can do to change that even if we all went green by tomorrow. The question is if we are speeding up that process and we probably are. It will happen no matter how green people get tho.

[PotshotPolka]

In my opinion, humans may only be a small part of climate change. Even before humans had fancy cars and factories killing the ozone, the earth has gone thru severer climate changes in its past. So I actually believe if our earth does go into a climate change cycle then there isnt much we can do to change that even if we all went green by tomorrow. The question is if we are speeding up that process and we probably are. It will happen no matter how green people get tho.

Want to hear a funny story about the ozone hole? The hole is only found around Antartica during the winter when it has minimal sunlight. Guess what's necessary to make ozone? Oxygen and sunlight. No sunlight, no ozone.

[Ididitforthelulz]

I've always known it was a bullshit excuse for governments to gain more power over the masses.

Hopefully this continues to blow up.

You are a true hero and a beacon of hope. a true american. Scientists are conniving bastards and have controlled us for too long with their so called "facts" and "data". Wake up people! All of this is a massive conspiracy by scientists. Same with evolution, heliocentrism, and the "round" earth theory. I believe the earth is flat and who are these scientists to tell me otherwise? Just read the bible. Return to the Christianity before it is too late or the rapture will send you to the depths of hell.

[PotshotPolka]

You are a true hero and a beacon of hope. a true american. Scientists are conniving bastards and have controlled us for too long with their so called "facts" and "data". Wake up people! All of this is a massive conspiracy by scientists. Same with evolution, heliocentrism, and the "round" earth theory. I believe the earth is flat and who are these scientists to tell me otherwise? Just read the bible. Return to the Christianity before it is too late or the rapture will send you to the depths of hell.

Oh dear god. Red fuck it, I no longer care about the community's standard of fair due process and objectivity, just ban this dumbfuck.

[Italian Jew]

You are a true hero and a beacon of hope. a true american. Scientists are conniving bastards and have controlled us for too long with their so called "facts" and "data". Wake up people! All of this is a massive conspiracy by scientists. Same with evolution, heliocentrism, and the "round" earth theory. I believe the earth is flat and who are these scientists to tell me otherwise? Just read the bible. Return to the Christianity before it is too late or the rapture will send you to the depths of hell.

Can I have whatever the fuck your smoking or is it just a birth defect?



Oh dear god. Red fuck it, I no longer care about the community's standard of fair due process and objectivity, just ban this dumbfuck.

^^^^^
This please

[Lordcrazy]

how do we know this isnt just a way to get us scared so we'll buy more stuff? hence pay off the national debt?

[Italian Jew]

how do we know this isnt just a way to get us scared so we'll buy more stuff? hence pay off the national debt?

Yes, we will pay off trillions of dollars by scaring people into thinking we are killing the earth. It's a brilliant plan, so brilliant that other countries have joined in to remove their debts too. Goddamn, if they had only thought of this sooner! :mmph:








Nice bump btw! :laugh:

[Lordcrazy]

agreed and plus you know where the money you donated to save the polar bears went? THE GOVERNMENT!

[Drox]

You are a true hero and a beacon of hope. a true american. Scientists are conniving bastards and have controlled us for too long with their so called "facts" and "data". Wake up people! All of this is a massive conspiracy by scientists. Same with evolution, heliocentrism, and the "round" earth theory. I believe the earth is flat and who are these scientists to tell me otherwise? Just read the bible. Return to the Christianity before it is too late or the rapture will send you to the depths of hell.

You know the internet and the computer that your using was made by scientists? So I guess your first in line for falling for whatever "conspiracy" your referring to. lol

[Jager]

the sciencebehind global climate change one way or the other is flawed. and here is why.

we have reliable data for about 200 years, and basic understanding around soil/core samples and ice etc back for millenia, but no one is sure we fully understand how this works.

earths climate is based around the suns activity (sunspots) as well as its magnetosphere stopping far universe cosmic rays from penetrating to the earth. the more sunspots the stronger the field, and less cosmic rays we get. the "little ice age" of the middle ages in Europe was due to sunspot activity being extremely low (the lowest we know of on record). so are we as humans creating issues for the environment... yes, how badly? i and no one knows. scientists have mathematical models, but models can be flawed based on the data, remember that in the 1970s we were being screamed at for global cooling and the next ice age was coming by 2000.

science can only predict accurately with lots of data that makes sense, we don't have that accurate long term data. 200 years isn't enough. We don't know that we are understanding the samples and soil we have data on either... radio carbon dating is in the past been very flawed, and what we think are key minerals to study may not be.

here is an easy to implement and better for the environment overall probably short term (20 year) solution.

you have the worlds largest populations using sub standard (for anything above 2nd world countries) pollution control, waste management and public sanitation. when 2/3rds of the worlds population is polluting like mad, and the rest of us pledge to "clean up our infrastructure somehow" guess what its not gonna make a damn bit of difference. if we cut 2/3 of the US CO2 emissions china will have dumped about that back into the air in a year.

I dont give a damn what the UN or "science"says with mathematical models and dark forecasts of the earth becoming Venus. the oceans rising and the world changing has happened as recent as 10 thousand years ago. when the last ice age had the ocean levels 100 feet lower then what they are now. before that ice age the entire world saw marked climate change when co2 emissions shot sky high, before man knew what tools were, we had such cataclysmic volcanic activity that the world was almost 20 degrees warmer then usual, however the land recording and soil samples we have from those times were when the continents were vastly different then as we know them now so samples would have recorded very different data then we see now simply being either closer or farther from the equator, or near ocean or land locked deserts.

earth is in constant change, the continents move about 2 centimeters a year, in places up to 2 inches a year, and a single volcanic explosion puts out more dust and debris into the air that lowers temperature by 5 or more degrees, or throws tons of co2 in the air raising temps in other areas, its to the point that science has no idea if "man" is really contributing anything more then peeing in the ocean contributes to the rise in ocean water levels.

when science understands how the suns fluctuations change our very weather patterns and create global cooling and warming by itself (they sort of do now, with the way the magnetosphere of earth is changed, forcing warm winds to go north and south instead of staying nearer to the equator) how the earths rotation keeps the entire world from being covered in all the frozen water we own ( man doesnt slow down the earth, nor change its pitch, but the earth does change and slow down/speed up a bit, altering the climate)

science has barely any understanding of the very furnace that powers everything and how its keeping us alive to begin to tell us that we are changing anything, or whether this is a cyclical thing (which they have proof of the cycles that the earth goes through and we are nearing an end of one)
until they can better explain how all those pieces come together, and how to better evaluate the data they have accordingly, then man made global warming has a better chance to be wrong, then to be right.

you simply cannot use math to answer future predictions when the math doesn't have all the variables.

[Jazzyy]

Yes, we will pay off trillions of dollars by scaring people into thinking we are killing the earth. the us will never pay off that debt. everybody knows that if China and all of those shit countries ask for their money, we can just print off 13 trillion dollars, give it to them, and fuck up the economy even more. It's also a proven fact that if the US economy breaks, the whole world goes down the shit tube.

[Italian Jew]

Has no one detected my sarcasm yet?

[trakaill]

It's also a proven fact that if the US economy breaks, the whole world goes down the shit tube.

Unfortunately this is becoming less true...
As for the global warming issue..listening to a bunch of people on the internet debating about it without the scientific background or proper research is quite a waste of time..
If global warming is an issue will bump this thread in 20 years and talk about it cause thats when the effects should start showing significantly..
Red your long post you made about cars and shit..its all good and interesting but all your doing is saying how negative green things are..but your not showing any proof that global warming is a myth..
All see the skeptics saying "oh it BS..its exaggerated..., oh its natural...
Well prove all that with nice documentary and backup research like Al Gore so you have some credibility..