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Caution
10 Aug 2009, 05:13pm
Well I thought I share an interesting experience I had today...

My first day of school was today, and one of the classes I had was US history. The teacher had us each pick one topic out of a list of pre-picked headlines today. The object was to pick a topic each of us felt was the most important in US and world-wide.

Some of topics were stuff like the Beer Summit ordeal, the possible health care reform bill that was proposed, Bill Clinton getting the Journalists back, the first Hispanic on the Supreme Court, the death of Michael Jackson, the death of Walter Cronkite, etc.

Out of the entire class, I was the only person who picked the health care reform bill, and guess what literally every other student (about 25 or so) picked...yup, that's right, Michael Jackson's death. Maybe it's just me, but I think something is seriously screwed up if kids think that the death of Michael Jackson is more important. Am I wrong here?

Omar
10 Aug 2009, 05:22pm
I'm not surprised, It's not the youth of america, It's the youth world wide, I don't know if it's new or old, but ever since I lived, I knew the youth cared more about the media and people in the spotlight of the media than stuff like health care, I'm not surpised, though there should have been more people who voted something else, I would've, but It's quite normal.

BTW, What was the agegroup?

Hazardous
10 Aug 2009, 05:22pm
Rule 1 of the Universe: People are stupid NO EXCEPTIONS.

Caution
10 Aug 2009, 05:24pm
BTW, What was the agegroup?

All Juniors in high school, so the age group is from 15-17.

skitzophranic
10 Aug 2009, 05:26pm
Well I usually pick the easiest, and they were probably picking the easiest topic. But if I wanted a challenge I would have picked the Health Care or First Hispanic on Supreme Court.

Caution
10 Aug 2009, 05:29pm
Well I usually pick the easiest, and they were probably picking the easiest topic.

Yeah but I feel that as Americans, they should be more into politics.

skitzophranic
10 Aug 2009, 05:36pm
Yeah but I feel that as Americans, they should be more into politics.

Well if your class was a bunch of lazys, which I think that most HighSchoolers would be if it involved in some uninteresting stuff, they'd pick the easiest, so it wouldn't really involve much more than: (michael jacksons death) He was the king of pop, everyone loved him, etc.

matt 187
10 Aug 2009, 05:42pm
I Blame the freemasons

Drox
10 Aug 2009, 05:50pm
Yeah but I feel that as Americans, they should be more into politics.

When your youth (18 year olds) votes for a president just because he would be a first, and talks real good about change that he hasnt done yet, then that should be the first sign that politics isnt on the top of the list when it comes to the youth.

Omar
10 Aug 2009, 06:48pm
All Juniors in high school, so the age group is from 15-17.

Then It's really usual that they would go for that topic. A death of a king, sob sob, It's really normal, so no biggie.

Only REALLY few people in our age gets interested in politics Caution, few people like me n you :thumb:

PotshotPolka
10 Aug 2009, 07:42pm
The answer is that the current school system inspires Apathy imo.

2 Dwarves, 1 Coat
10 Aug 2009, 08:09pm
It does sicken me that there are people only a few years younger than my politically stupid ass that

would pick Micheal Jackson's death over something very important that they will be dealing with in

the very near future. I can seriously see this country turning into an idiocracy (Go see it if you haven't

to better understand the reference). I guess the bottom line is that people are stupid. I know, I am one.

Bullet Wound
10 Aug 2009, 08:38pm
You gotta give the teacher blame too for being stupid enough to ALLOW them to have that option.But yea, not much shock, people are idiots.

Caution
10 Aug 2009, 09:01pm
The answer is that the current school system inspires Apathy imo.

Very true, and it irritates the hell out of me.

I don't consider myself to know everything about politics or even close, but I take the time to watch the news, read articles, listen to Obama's (fail) speeches, watch republican and democratic analysts to get both sides, etc.

Slavic
10 Aug 2009, 09:21pm
Its not the youth, you will find when you get older that most people honestly don't care that much about politics. Their interest only perks up if the issue will directly effect their life; if not they don't give two shits.

Also Micheal Jackson is the easy topic. If this occurred in a History class in a University I'd be a little more surprised.

Highschool is basically large scale baby sitting. Keep the kids off the streets and out of trouble long enough for them to find jobs to keep them off the streets and out of trouble long enough to die.

Jazzyy
10 Aug 2009, 09:48pm
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

PotshotPolka
10 Aug 2009, 09:49pm
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

Get out. Newfag, and take your plague of indifference with you.

Jazzyy
10 Aug 2009, 09:51pm
It's a good thing I'm not a /b/tard and you're just paranoid everyone around you is anon.

TheTruth
10 Aug 2009, 09:52pm
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

Errr who are you? And maybe you'll be able to drink in like 10 years.

Caution
10 Aug 2009, 09:54pm
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

Are you a fucking retard? I can't even begin to describe how stupid you sound. HOW DARE I CARE ABOUT MY COUNTRY RIGHT?

Also, quote me where I said "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICA IN MY CLASS."

I don't care if you're parents coddled you your whole life and told you to just listen to what the government says, vote democratically, and invest in K-mart and you don't have to worry about a single problem regarding politics; but that doesn't mean I was raised that way as well. I'm not 100% sure where you get 15 year old pimple faced kids deciding if you should drink beers or not as well.

PotshotPolka
10 Aug 2009, 09:58pm
It's a good thing I'm not a /b/tard and you're just paranoid everyone around you is anon.

It's a good thing idiots come with short expiration dates.

Flick
10 Aug 2009, 10:54pm
It's a good thing idiots come with short expiration dates.

For Narnia?

And yes I agree people should at least give 2 shits about what the government is deciding for our asses because just now it doesn't effect us directly but it does effect our parents and eventually will have an effect on us. BTW MJ is defiantly more important to us than health. GTFO

awesomebillfromdawsonvile
10 Aug 2009, 11:06pm
anyone else notice that like 4 celebs died within the week of the 4th of july weekend?

the SAME weekend that north korea said they were gonna launch a missle over japan and within a few hundred miles of hawaii. but hey who gives a fuck jacksons dead!!!

they launched their missle and nobody gave a fuck. how wrong is that?

its like some other guy here said, the schools breed little fuks that dont give a shit. while tv and bs news topics help keep it that way.

Hunt3r.j2
10 Aug 2009, 11:08pm
Are you a fucking retard? I can't even begin to describe how stupid you sound. HOW DARE I CARE ABOUT MY COUNTRY RIGHT?

Also, quote me where I said "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICA IN MY CLASS."

I don't care if you're parents coddled you your whole life and told you to just listen to what the government says, vote democratically, and invest in K-mart and you don't have to worry about a single problem regarding politics; but that doesn't mean I was raised that way as well. I'm not 100% sure where you get 15 year old pimple faced kids deciding if you should drink beers or not as well.

I think that understanding something that just might fuck you in the ass in the near future registers a slight thought of panic.

Healthcare might do the same thing to the Dems as back in '94 with the AWB.

Italian Jew
10 Aug 2009, 11:09pm
anyone else notice that like 4 celebs died within the week of the 4th of july weekend?

the SAME weekend that north korea said they were gonna launch a missle over japan and within a few hundred miles of hawaii. but hey who gives a fuck jacksons dead!!!

they launched their missle and nobody gave a fuck. how wrong is that?

its like some other guy here said, the schools breed little fuks that dont give a shit. while tv and bs news topics help keep it that way.

:usa2:

Slavic
10 Aug 2009, 11:10pm
they launched their missle and nobody gave a fuck. how wrong is that?

Its just the DPRK, they do goofy things all the time for attention

awesomebillfromdawsonvile
10 Aug 2009, 11:42pm
Its just the DPRK, they do goofy things all the time for attention

lol dont know if goofy is the right word for it, but lets all hope that i was just giant puplicity stunt.

Bad Dog
11 Aug 2009, 12:15am
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

Well, you say your 18. So 15 year old pimple faced teens arent deciding if you should be drinking beer, the law is deciding that. Unless you lied about your age and said you were younger than you are, in which case wierd...

matt 187
11 Aug 2009, 12:37am
anyone else notice that like 4 celebs died within the week of the 4th of july weekend?

the SAME weekend that north korea said they were gonna launch a missle over japan and within a few hundred miles of hawaii. but hey who gives a fuck jacksons dead!!!

they launched their missle and nobody gave a fuck. how wrong is that?

its like some other guy here said, the schools breed little fuks that dont give a shit. while tv and bs news topics help keep it that way.

Like i said its a cover up Blame the masons :crazy:

VirDeBello
11 Aug 2009, 06:45am
Ya'll have the wrong answer, I woulda been like fuck that I ain't doing schoolwork or homework lol seriously or I wouldn't have been in school that day either one. Honestly yeah we can talk about politics and get in a heated debate but......its not like its gonna change anything. Nothing will change. And in the end you will end up listening to what your boss says regardless of political standing or religious preference. But I woulda picked Health Care too or Korean nuke tests if that was an option.

Frostbyte
11 Aug 2009, 06:45am
The way I see it, if there weren't stupid people, there wouldn't be anyone to compare to the smart people. So just let the pawns move into place and live your life.

trakaill
11 Aug 2009, 08:34am
Again this goes well beyond the simple fact of the rape...this kind of things would probably have not happen 50 years ago. The education of todays children's is way different and there are exposed to so much bullshit on TV, media, etc that they can even think of doing things like this.. thats really where this kind of thread hits me.

Im 21 years old and Ive seen changes in the past decade in the way kids grow up and the things they do and not for the best... If im lucky I might live for another 50 or 60 years Im just really starting to fear what the world will be like then

I posted this in the 4 boys accused of rape thread...
And it comes back to this...the US school system prior to university sucks... Unless you are one of the few that gets to go to better HS or bust your ass with 5 AP classes in less good schools then you unfortunately graduate with a lot less in your bag then the rest of the (developed) world..
The US public school system is competing in the mid 20s of the world school rankings..with Eastern European under developed countries...
An easy example would be that some private/public school offer international baccalaureates, most classes are AP level or higher and there a lot of extra classes which make high school a LOT harder...and people to that to be able to transfer to better business school around the world or in the US
Then again most people live their life living just fine and they went to normal schools...we have to wait and see when the youth of today will be doing in 20 to 30 years to evaluate if its fucked up today...

Delirium
11 Aug 2009, 09:10am
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?


Jazzyy, You sir are a complete retard, your saying that the youth of america shouldent worry about a bill that if passed could completly screw someones life? I know that in this bill the democrats are saying that they are going to compete w/ private companys, but do you honestly think for one second that private companys such as the blue cross/shield which I am currently under on thier plan are going to hold up to the fuck government of the united states, also unemployment is going to shoot through the roof with a whole sector of the health care industy getting wiped out.

So, until you go talk to the single mother of 3 trying to apply at a fucking Mcdonalds to try and support her kids,and say that you don't care about america and what the government has done to this paticular family.you can go DIAF



Also this is not me I am using as an example it's acctualy a friend of mine that used to live down the street that now lives in a 2 bedroom apartment w/ his mother and 2 siblings when trash like Jazzyy gets to enjoy all of lifes luxurys. Makes me sick tbh.

as a also also, I'm not a democrat or republican or any of eithers branches I consider my self an advocate for the best intrest of the entire country.

Repeat
11 Aug 2009, 09:19am
I Blame the freemasons

Leave us out of this.

SilentGuns
11 Aug 2009, 09:25am
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

Im usually the nice guy but ... Sir , you are a idiot . Please STFU or GTFO.

Mikey
11 Aug 2009, 12:54pm
To be honest. i love America for that exact reason. In other countries they would worry about everything but here.. pffff they don't know/need to know/give a fuck and are damn happy with their lives. So yes! Americans are as smart as a pile of rocks and their logical thinking suck's donkey balls but damn they still seem to amaze me.

Omar
11 Aug 2009, 01:00pm
To be honest. i love America for that exact reason. In other countries they would worry about everything but here.. pffff they don't know/need to know/give a fuck and are damn happy with their lives. So yes! Americans are as smart as a pile of rocks and their logical thinking suck's donkey balls but damn they still seem to amaze me.

You're joking, right?

Jazzyy
11 Aug 2009, 01:30pm
So you guys think that sophmores in high school should decide which bills pass and which ones don't?

Okay, I'm swiss then.



Also this is not me I am using as an example it's acctualy a friend of mine that used to live down the street that now lives in a 2 bedroom apartment w/ his mother and 2 siblings when trash like Jazzyy gets to enjoy all of lifes luxurys. Makes me sick tbh.

You know what? I am pretty dumb, but you judging my life simply by a post is so judgmental you're probably part of the KKK. Although, yes, I do attempt to troll sometimes, but I have never seen a thread being more of an asshole than this one, when I say kids shouldnt make the decisions, I'm completely flamed at that for being stupid (which i agree happens), that I'm rich and I don't care about anyone else. Although RetaliatioN's response was probably nicer than the rest of anyone else's, its a good thing I barely ever stand behind my opinion after I get flamed out because it usually means that everytime I will bring it up I get bitched at.
Want to know why I care about health care? Because I don't have it.
/me steps off soapbox

LegalSmash
11 Aug 2009, 02:09pm
Juniors in high school shouldn't be worrying about HEALTH CARE reforms okay? You should be worrying about fucking chicks.

Seriously, what you are saying here is "IM THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT AMERICAN IN MY CLASS", have you ever came to the understanding that maybe kids SHOULDN'T care? If they did, they would be having more involvement in the subject, and I don't want any 15yo pimple faced teenagers deciding if I should be drinking beer or not, mkay?

If kids that age actually had half a brain to care, our colleges would not be continually seeking out of state and international students for tax dollars.. Kids SHOULD care about basic life skills like voting, writing a check, and knowing how to budget. At 15 you are not really a child anymore, you can be charged as an adult in most states for most criminal offenses... we need LESS dumbing down of society... if 15 year old kids were more worried about their books than their ecksbawkses and trying to fingerbang bushy mary rotten crotch, we MIGHT have a decent workforce... but we don't, thanks to people who think like you.

Newfag.

awesomebillfromdawsonvile
11 Aug 2009, 03:35pm
Like i said its a cover up Blame the masons :crazy:


actually blame the mega rich, they hold over 80% of the worlds wealth and they intend to keep it that way. Keeping the kids dumb is just one way to help that.

bs secret societys like the masons are on the lowest spot on the pwr ladder.

matt 187
11 Aug 2009, 03:55pm
actually blame the mega rich, they hold over 80% of the worlds wealth and they intend to keep it that way. Keeping the kids dumb is just one way to help that.

bs secret societys like the masons are on the lowest spot on the pwr ladder.

Masons are the Mega Rich they also formed this country and this government who made the school systems :usa2: and by Mega rich i mean (rockerfeller rich)

Drox
11 Aug 2009, 04:40pm
So you guys think that sophmores in high school should decide which bills pass and which ones don't?

No one said that they should decide, but they should care enough to know whats going on with what the people in DC decide, because it can effect their future.




You know what? I am pretty dumb, but you judging my life simply by a post is so judgmental you're probably part of the KKK. Although, yes, I do attempt to troll sometimes, but I have never seen a thread being more of an asshole than this one, when I say kids shouldnt make the decisions, I'm completely flamed at that for being stupid (which i agree happens), that I'm rich and I don't care about anyone else. Although RetaliatioN's response was probably nicer than the rest of anyone else's, its a good thing I barely ever stand behind my opinion after I get flamed out because it usually means that everytime I will bring it up I get bitched at.
Want to know why I care about health care? Because I don't have it.
/me steps off soapbox

KKK? Really? I suggest not posting anymore in politics if you have to say something like that. Also no one called you a rich kid, they just plainly said your a dumbass for posting. Lastly once again, no one said that kids should decide on stuff, but they should atleast know whats going on in their own country to a certain point.

SilentGuns
11 Aug 2009, 05:45pm
Try foreign politics or talking smack about countries that just in someway piss you off with what they do. Over here in Estonia , we talk shit about Russia all the time.

or you could not be a dumbass


Economy. Try giving a solution , intead of whining and doing nothing ( 60% of anti-obama people)
I myself am more interested in Economy , going to take up some extra classes this upcoming schoolyear.




For American teenagers I suggest foreign politics. Intrest in politics and economy is on the road to maturity.




On a little side note : what do you guys even learn in history class in the US? What do you look at more in highschool ? world or US history?

Delirium
11 Aug 2009, 06:28pm
For me it was:

Pre-AP World Geography in 9th
AP World History in 10th
AP American History in 11th
And im taking advanced Government and Economics this coming year along w/ my electives of British and French national history

SoulKeeper
11 Aug 2009, 07:08pm
"omg but mj deth is history guyz" - comes from people who mocked him daily too.

Caution
11 Aug 2009, 07:20pm
Ya'll have the wrong answer, I woulda been like fuck that I ain't doing schoolwork or homework lol seriously or I wouldn't have been in school that day either one. Honestly yeah we can talk about politics and get in a heated debate but......its not like its gonna change anything. Nothing will change. And in the end you will end up listening to what your boss says regardless of political standing or religious preference. But I woulda picked Health Care too or Korean nuke tests if that was an option.

Eh it was more just a simple 'Pick a topic and give a sentence or two on why you think it is.' Not really so much an assignment or debate.


So you guys think that sophmores in high school should decide which bills pass and which ones don't?

You know what? I am pretty dumb, but you judging my life simply by a post is so judgmental you're probably part of the KKK. Although, yes, I do attempt to troll sometimes, but I have never seen a thread being more of an asshole than this one, when I say kids shouldnt make the decisions, I'm completely flamed at that for being stupid (which i agree happens), that I'm rich and I don't care about anyone else.

A; You obviously don't read the thread, because nowhere do I state that I am a sophomore.

B; KKK? I don't quite see the correlation. Legal or Potshot may be able to help me on that.

C; You're not being flamed for an opinion, you're being flamed because you state something that proves you didn't read the thread, and then have 0 proof / reasoning behind it.


If kids that age actually had half a brain to care, our colleges would not be continually seeking out of state and international students for tax dollars.. Kids SHOULD care about basic life skills like voting, writing a check, and knowing how to budget. At 15 you are not really a child anymore, you can be charged as an adult in most states for most criminal offenses... we need LESS dumbing down of society... if 15 year old kids were more worried about their books than their ecksbawkses and trying to fingerbang bushy mary rotten crotch, we MIGHT have a decent workforce... but we don't, thanks to people who think like you.

Newfag.

And that's why I know how to write a check, I have a job, I keep up with current news / politics, etc.


a little side note : what do you guys even learn in history class in the US? What do you look at more in highschool ? world or US history?

Freshman year; No history

Sophomore year; World History

Junior year; US History

Senior year; US Econ / Gov

Bad Dog
11 Aug 2009, 08:29pm
So you guys think that sophmores in high school should decide which bills pass and which ones don't?

Okay, I'm swiss then.



You know what? I am pretty dumb, but you judging my life simply by a post is so judgmental you're probably part of the KKK. Although, yes, I do attempt to troll sometimes, but I have never seen a thread being more of an asshole than this one, when I say kids shouldnt make the decisions, I'm completely flamed at that for being stupid (which i agree happens), that I'm rich and I don't care about anyone else. Although RetaliatioN's response was probably nicer than the rest of anyone else's, its a good thing I barely ever stand behind my opinion after I get flamed out because it usually means that everytime I will bring it up I get bitched at.
Want to know why I care about health care? Because I don't have it.
/me steps off soapbox

This is politics thread. We talk srs business here. You dont know at all waht you are talking about, and in your own post you show that you didnt read the thread at all. You say you barely ever stand behind your opinion because other people "flame you andbitch you out" That proves that you dont really have a real opinion, or your not smart enough to fucking back it up. I hope you fall off that soapbox.

PotshotPolka
11 Aug 2009, 08:38pm
Economy. Try giving a solution , intead of whining and doing nothing ( 60% of anti-obama people)


Don't even bark up that tree mister.

Toxin
12 Aug 2009, 05:32am
<- AP Human Geography.

You know, I feel sad for people who totally waste their precious high school education, and then turn around and start whining when they drop-out and make $8/h. Georgia has a 50% drop out rate, ranked, yup, 51st in the whole god damn States.
Yet taxes are paying for this education and most people aren't even using it.

K. back to topic.

Anyways...

LegalSmash
12 Aug 2009, 07:57am
Don't even bark up that tree mister.

No, lets be honest with ourselves here Polka, the reality is that a great deal of the whining and bitching coming out of Washington and townhall meetings has little to no constructive value. I am not saying that the ENTIRE conservative right is not putting forth an effort, but I'd be inclined to state that MORE than 60% but less than 90% ARE just fanning their cunts and screaming for no good reason... I'll elaborate:

I see the conservative portion of this country in three groups of unequal size:

1. Socially conservative, economically ignorant (SCEG)
2. Socially conservative, economically understanding (SCEU)
3. Socially unconcerned, Economically astute (SUEA

30-40% of the party falls in what I consider to be SCEG, they are more concerned about gay rights and abortion than they are about dealing with ACTUAL problems that face the nation, these folks threaten representatives at meetings, and continue to harp over this obama birth certificate and roe v. wade issue.

As a catholic, a registered Florida Republican and someone who considers himself generally conservative when it comes to economics, these people are an embarrassment to the party, and to any conservative political movement in general... we should as a party, and as a movement be more concerned with the healthy recovery of the economy and the proper functioning of business than with the presumed opinions of an undead jewish carpenter and his cadre of oddly dressed administrators. Faith should be a personal thing, not a forced issue. To me, these people are no better than the Taliban when it comes to matters of government functioning.

This group however, has had a monopoly on GOP name, activity, and platform for the past 10 years, which in my opinion is fiercely problematic because people who care about this ideological issue are generally incapable of forming cogent thought, opinion, or useful contribution to any proceeding or forum due to their preoccupation with said issue.

This group to me, is the conservative equivalent of retard kids who swear by Chomsky, they consider Limbaugh and Coulter and Rove to be biblical scripture, and make no conclusions through their own machinations. These people are problematic, they are single issue voters, and they are the reason people like Michael Steele and Sarah Palin are allowed ANYWHERE near politics.


The second group (about 50%) tends to hold similar social values to group 1 but are less dogmatic, and are willing to engage in actual brainstorming and policy making that while not ENTIRELY what a ideologically dogmatic conservative would want, it would achieve a nationally necessary goal as reasonably and cheaply as possible. I would put my favorite president, Eisenhower, in this category. While he did not lower taxes in this presidency, he allowed for deductions which permitted families seeking education, investing in infrastructure, companies that publicly benefit the nation, etc, to gain financial contribution from the nation's individual earners (the rest of us), AND started and completed several public works projects that revolutionized this nation (the entire fucking highway and road system for starters). This was tempered by his personal social convictions, he was religious, and led the nation in prayer, he fought to root out communism in a quiet, but effective manner (contrary to McCarthy and his charades), and he ran the country as a keen administrator, rather than like a jumped up imbecile who cannot help but gain bad press.

This group recognizes the need for education, public health, a strong defense, and strong civil advancement and assistance but seeks to do so at the lowest cost possible.

Third Group is only 10% of the conservative voters in this country, concerned purely with economic issues, and caring little for social concerns. Here, IMHO, the majority of people here fit. The problem is, in our two party system, our ideals go by the wayside, because hot button issues are much more divisive, and most Americans won't be bothered to read a political platform pamphlet let alone research a candidate.

People in the last 2 groups TEND to contribute, but some of group 2 fall into group 1 when their own elected officials due to their own indiscretions end up getting ousted (gay sex, lude behavior, trying to fuck an argentinian who looks like howard stern comes to mind), and they are left without reasonable voice of opinion.

IMHO, the only way that conservatives will rise and rule again in this country after 8 years of Bush-conservatives and a retreat to religiously fueled ignorance, is to allow college educated, intelligent, but well tempered (basically non-ideologues) conservative intellectuals (yes there is such a thing) run things.

I feel that so long as people are unwilling to accept what I just said, and what in reality holds true of this party, and this political stance, the GOP will be plagued by problems throughout, and fall into the habit of bitching and not putting forth any constructive work.

and for the record, I do not like Ron Paul.

PotshotPolka
12 Aug 2009, 09:18am
I concede on your points of the first two groups, but on the third I'd like to elaborate, since I finally understand where you are coming from.

Your stance, one I used to stand by, is that individual values and morality are subjective to an individual's own beliefs and standards. To attempt to keep a level and objective stance, which, if qualified by the previous statement, would require a man of amorality, and that was ruled only by reason. This here, is the contradiction, and is why our heralded two party system has been torn to shreds over the last century.

1. On morality: I believe Reason is a virtue. I think it is right to think first under any circumstances, to understand, and to never, ever, compromise. Look up what compromise truly means, it is the warping and tainting of something, and truth and reason are no different.

2. On objectivity: Truth is objective, since it is the truth, there is no middle ground. If you have issues qualifying this statement, try explaining to yourself why 1=1 1+1=2.

But aren't Humans subjective to their own thoughts? Aren't we just creatures that act on emotional impulses?

No, Humans actions cause emotions, and humans are rational creatures. We are not born stupid, and we are inclined to pick the right answer.

But what is right and wrong? See 1&2.

Then how does it apply to humans? Humans have no reason to lie, cheat, steal or kill. It cannot be warranted, to lie is to warp the truth, as is cheating, to steal is to take something they have not earned. And to Kill is the summation of the three.

To put this into perspective, I do not believe in need, regardless of its nature. I do not believe in taxing individuals upon a percentage rate (taxing a man that makes 1 million a year 100,000, and taxing a man that makes 100,000 only 10,000), which is even lower than the current rates. This is to tax one according to his ability, and give him only the same services (or less, since he is privileged) is to give to him according to his need.

I do not believe in the common good, social welfare, or even the act of self-sacrifice. There is no entity known as the public, the People are but individuals, and to act on their behalf is to take the choice from them.

If you believe that the realm of economics should be any different from societal law, that it should be amoral, check your premises. You would never allow cannibals to function in society, but you would allow them to demand corporate, business, income, and even luxury taxes on their fellow man, simply because they have not earned as much.
Evil acts in society are punished, but acts of incompetence, stupidity, and stark irresponsibility are rewarded on Wall Street, Detroit, and elsewhere because of the need of the people.


If any of this seems, absurd, think before typing, if any of this seems unpragmatic check your definition of pragmatism. To claim reason is unreasonable is insanity. If you want to debate my logic, that is fine, I am willing to debate it on any subject, without exception, because logic will determine who is Right, not the number of hands writing out ballots or the pitch of your voices.

LegalSmash
12 Aug 2009, 01:37pm
I concede on your points of the first two groups, but on the third I'd like to elaborate, since I finally understand where you are coming from.

Your stance, one I used to stand by, is that individual values and morality are subjective to an individual's own beliefs and standards. To attempt to keep a level and objective stance, which, if qualified by the previous statement, would require a man of amorality, and that was ruled only by reason. This here, is the contradiction, and is why our heralded two party system has been torn to shreds over the last century.

1. On morality: I believe Reason is a virtue. I think it is right to think first under any circumstances, to understand, and to never, ever, compromise. Look up what compromise truly means, it is the warping and tainting of something, and truth and reason are no different.

2. On objectivity: Truth is objective, since it is the truth, there is no middle ground. If you have issues qualifying this statement, try explaining to yourself why 1=1 1+1=2.

But aren't Humans subjective to their own thoughts? Aren't we just creatures that act on emotional impulses?

No, Humans actions cause emotions, and humans are rational creatures. We are not born stupid, and we are inclined to pick the right answer.

But what is right and wrong? See 1&2.

Then how does it apply to humans? Humans have no reason to lie, cheat, steal or kill. It cannot be warranted, to lie is to warp the truth, as is cheating, to steal is to take something they have not earned. And to Kill is the summation of the three.

To put this into perspective, I do not believe in need, regardless of its nature. I do not believe in taxing individuals upon a percentage rate (taxing a man that makes 1 million a year 100,000, and taxing a man that makes 100,000 only 10,000), which is even lower than the current rates. This is to tax one according to his ability, and give him only the same services (or less, since he is privileged) is to give to him according to his need.

I do not believe in the common good, social welfare, or even the act of self-sacrifice. There is no entity known as the public, the People are but individuals, and to act on their behalf is to take the choice from them.

If you believe that the realm of economics should be any different from societal law, that it should be amoral, check your premises. You would never allow cannibals to function in society, but you would allow them to demand corporate, business, income, and even luxury taxes on their fellow man, simply because they have not earned as much.
Evil acts in society are punished, but acts of incompetence, stupidity, and stark irresponsibility are rewarded on Wall Street, Detroit, and elsewhere because of the need of the people.


If any of this seems, absurd, think before typing, if any of this seems unpragmatic check your definition of pragmatism. To claim reason is unreasonable is insanity. If you want to debate my logic, that is fine, I am willing to debate it on any subject, without exception, because logic will determine who is Right, not the number of hands writing out ballots or the pitch of your voices.


First, there is no such thing as a truly objective stance. Period. There is always self interest, and objectivity is limited by knowledge.

Philosophical waxing aside, I disagree as to what determines who is right in this country. Logic stopped determining what was correct in this country a LONG time ago.

As for taxation, so long as we intend to have a military, or roads, or a central federal government, it will exist. My points are directed to the problems of the GOP and their failings as categorical groups, rather than economic theory, because in the end, its what it is, theory, which, much like battle plans, go to shit when put into practice.


"This group recognizes the need for education, public health, a strong defense, and strong civil advancement and assistance but seeks to do so at the lowest cost possible."

Is the only purpose for which I believe taxation is warranted, particularly . To ensure we DONT have to pay for welfare for people who cannot carry themselves because they did not have the basics allowing for someone to become an earning, contributing member to society.

Lastly, Pragmatism, is relative. Unless people completely become self sufficient in entirety... and it won't happen in our world... in this day, or age, because of the manner in which we've developed as a culture since serfdom emerged.

Outside of books, we as a civilization, a race, shit, a species, have had some sort of collective survival methods from our hunter gatherer roots onward.

Idealism about independent, free society is essentially a college lecture or a book subject, polka, you'll see it soon enough. Me, I'd rather not give myself ulcers.

Delirium
15 Aug 2009, 11:41am
Wow, I just ready all of potshot and legals posts and I think my IQ raised a few points.

@Legal

I agree with you on pragmatism, which shall never be accomplished seeing as the way our society devolped with old skills being forgotten and new less effecient skills (relevant to life and living) being gained, Thus without relearning these skill such as farming and gathering (and yes I know people know how to "farm", but im talking about w/o machines) We shall never be self sufficient.


Wow, I just noticed that I just clarified what legal was saying in that itsy bitsy part of his post

(von dutch) delta force 8
15 Aug 2009, 01:39pm
god bless the motherfucking USA baby

in it this mentality that brought all them bankers down. most profit least effort
evryone in ure class thinks the MJ thing will be easy and getting em a high grade
1 question, when 25 people choose MJ wouldnt it be hard to get DIFFERENT projects from each student?

Delirium
15 Aug 2009, 04:05pm
god bless the motherfucking USA baby

in it this mentality that brought all them bankers down. most profit least effort
evryone in ure class thinks the MJ thing will be easy and getting em a high grade
1 question, when 25 people choose MJ wouldnt it be hard to get DIFFERENT projects from each student?

WTF?

Hunt3r.j2
15 Aug 2009, 08:23pm
I concede on your points of the first two groups, but on the third I'd like to elaborate, since I finally understand where you are coming from.

Your stance, one I used to stand by, is that individual values and morality are subjective to an individual's own beliefs and standards. To attempt to keep a level and objective stance, which, if qualified by the previous statement, would require a man of amorality, and that was ruled only by reason. This here, is the contradiction, and is why our heralded two party system has been torn to shreds over the last century.

1. On morality: I believe Reason is a virtue. I think it is right to think first under any circumstances, to understand, and to never, ever, compromise. Look up what compromise truly means, it is the warping and tainting of something, and truth and reason are no different.

2. On objectivity: Truth is objective, since it is the truth, there is no middle ground. If you have issues qualifying this statement, try explaining to yourself why 1=1 1+1=2.

But aren't Humans subjective to their own thoughts? Aren't we just creatures that act on emotional impulses?

No, Humans actions cause emotions, and humans are rational creatures. We are not born stupid, and we are inclined to pick the right answer.

But what is right and wrong? See 1&2.

Then how does it apply to humans? Humans have no reason to lie, cheat, steal or kill. It cannot be warranted, to lie is to warp the truth, as is cheating, to steal is to take something they have not earned. And to Kill is the summation of the three.

To put this into perspective, I do not believe in need, regardless of its nature. I do not believe in taxing individuals upon a percentage rate (taxing a man that makes 1 million a year 100,000, and taxing a man that makes 100,000 only 10,000), which is even lower than the current rates. This is to tax one according to his ability, and give him only the same services (or less, since he is privileged) is to give to him according to his need.

I do not believe in the common good, social welfare, or even the act of self-sacrifice. There is no entity known as the public, the People are but individuals, and to act on their behalf is to take the choice from them.

If you believe that the realm of economics should be any different from societal law, that it should be amoral, check your premises. You would never allow cannibals to function in society, but you would allow them to demand corporate, business, income, and even luxury taxes on their fellow man, simply because they have not earned as much.
Evil acts in society are punished, but acts of incompetence, stupidity, and stark irresponsibility are rewarded on Wall Street, Detroit, and elsewhere because of the need of the people.


If any of this seems, absurd, think before typing, if any of this seems unpragmatic check your definition of pragmatism. To claim reason is unreasonable is insanity. If you want to debate my logic, that is fine, I am willing to debate it on any subject, without exception, because logic will determine who is Right, not the number of hands writing out ballots or the pitch of your voices.
Here is my very retarded and probably not well reasoned 2 cents, but here I go.

There is no fuckin' thing as morality, ethics, or objectivity. We made 'em up. They're a human invention. Why wouldn't anyone lie? What happens if you lie, nothing, just like George Carlin said.

Well, unless you get caught and that's a whole different story. We may by nature need the truth, but then again, survival might have something to do with not being stuck in a dream world.

I'd fall into the "true neutral" category I suppose, whatever works, works. People should be able to judge what they should do.

LegalSmash
15 Aug 2009, 09:04pm
Here is my very retarded and probably not well reasoned 2 cents, but here I go.

There is no fuckin' thing as morality, ethics, or objectivity. We made 'em up. They're a human invention. Why wouldn't anyone lie? What happens if you lie, nothing, just like George Carlin said.

Well, unless you get caught and that's a whole different story. We may by nature need the truth, but then again, survival might have something to do with not being stuck in a dream world.

I'd fall into the "true neutral" category I suppose, whatever works, works. People should be able to judge what they should do.

Dungeons and Dragon boy,

quoting Carlin ad nauseum is not an opinion, its quoting a dead comedian. I loved his performance, saw him live 2x, but its not an issue opinion.

Morality shouldn't be a factor when morality is dictated by religious officials who seek to enforce the tenets of their particular faith on the remainder of the population.