Obama's BC is real

[LegalSmash]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

According to the state of HI

Also, check out the new republican darlings... the birthers!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/25444

[Drox]

Yea I knew it was real, I think what most people are confusing the issue with is this; When he became a Indonesian citizen then become a American citizen again, does he keep his birth citizenship or was he given a immigration citizenship. I think people thought he was never born in Hawaii period which I never doubted that he was.

[Jewpiter]

Are rethuglicans still fapping over this issue over a birth certificate?

[RedOctober]

rethuglicans

what is that? is that supposed to be Republicans?

...or were u referring to the urban dictionary definition:

1. rethuglican

A Republican who gets into an elected seat and then proceeds to change the laws so each illegal act he or she makes is now legal.
Tom DeLay blames the liberal media for reports of his illegal acts while House Rethuglican Leader.

[LegalSmash]

Well, I was just bringing up the article, not a cheap attack on GOP. If anything, I'd totally be fine with christfags that want to force religion into every aspect of politics taking a flying fucking hike and giving me back SOME semblance of a conservative party without "Jayzuz" involved in its internal decision making process.

GOP: 1800s * to 1991 RIP

[Jewpiter]

what is that? is that supposed to be Republicans?

...or were u referring to the urban dictionary definition:

1. rethuglican

A Republican who gets into an elected seat and then proceeds to change the laws so each illegal act he or she makes is now legal.
Tom DeLay blames the liberal media for reports of his illegal acts while House Rethuglican Leader.

Don't look too deeply into, friendo

[skitzophranic]

Hah, This is weird cause when I was on my way back from Florida me and my cousin where talking about this, and my cousin was saying that "They know It's not real but hes the president and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, etc. etc." But to find out that it's real! That's something! :P

[VirDeBello]

Its fake dudes, don't trust the governmant man.

[2 Dwarves, 1 Coat]

I hope whoever brought this up feels like a dumbshit now that it's been proven irrelevant.

[Hunt3r.j2]

I hope whoever brought this up feels like a dumbshit now that it's been proven irrelevant.

I feel like a dumbshit for bringing it up.

TBH, this is trivial shit. What's more important is how we're being FUCKED IN THE ASS because of policies that his administration and congress are pushing.

[Repeat]

The fact that his birth certificate is real only tells us that he is an American dumbass and not a foreign one.

[LegalSmash]

Hunter, I'm usually quite anti-liberal, but seriously, I need to know WHERE you think the policies are fucking "US" collectively in the ass. Please expound on this, because I, a self made, self employed, struggling lawyer, who watches politics semi-constantly, think he's generally doing a competent job, considering the situation of the economy and the state of the nation as he took it.

I've been paying taxes since I was 14 years old, in 1996, thats clinton era... my taxes at the time were the same as they were when I worked in college, I always paid. Bush gave tax cuts, for which I didn't receive SHIT, but the top 5% did. I didn't receive any student loan assistance, nor "extra" money for doing well in college. I put myself through school, yet, the GOP's 8 years helped me in no way whatsoever... no wait, my interest rates for student loans were allowed to climb off legislation passed in 2004. That's not help though, last I recall... unless helping me get FURTHER in debt is a good thing. Which it's not.

Between shitty regulatory practices, lack of oversight, and bad business practices that were not properly monitored, the banks did stupid shit that allowed the economy to collapse. The GOP 2 years AFTER the problem was clearly evident decided to say "it was not a good idea' in congressional record... that's the extent of their contribution to "fixing"... I fail to see the good here.

Therefore, I enter a work force that is chronically unemployed, a client pool that is habitually pressed for money and does not pay on time, and ON TOP OF THIS SHIT, loans that MUST be paid, despite the lack of available work, money, or financial confidence, again directly attributable to the 2007 to now crash.

If this guy can manage to pass something that even remotely rewards my work, student loan forgiveness work, more federal jobs, or gets congress to pass a HC bill that makes a new agency, creates new postings, or some sort of bill allowing for growth so I can work in to pay my bills, I'll seriously vote for him in 2008.

The biggest "contribution" the past 8 years saw to me, and people like me, lower middle class, working class first generation Americans who worked hard, save their money, borrow responsibly, and seek to advance themselves is effectively: Nothing...

Illegal immigrants pretty much got treated with dignity and amnesty here, abortion got WAY more attention than it ever should have, and science was ridiculed for the sake of religiously based "explanations. Schools suffered, property taxes went retarded, and more "morally superior" GOP men got nailed with solicitation of minors (that fuck foley), gay prostitution solicitation (shoe boy), and other acts of idiocy.

I'm not even going to TOUCH the wars here. The sad thing is, I don't need to, and I'm a registered GOP member, and I know this shit firsthand.

The funny thing is, that considering ALL the above, as long as Black Magic Jesus manages not to faceplant, he'll still seem like less of a clusterfuck because he knows how to speak in a comforting, engaging manner. The gift of the silver tongue.

[roach coach]

Even though the House overwhelmingly passed a "resolution" deeming Obama a citizen, I have doubts that the right wing will move on to another story. I have a feeling that the fringe wants to find a 21st century way to say "he's a (insert racial slur here)" so they can continue to demonize him, regardless of policy, or whip their base into a frenzy. I'd rather see policy debate and disagreement instead of "He's an Arab" and "he's not a citizen" because they can't say "he's a ******."

[Drox]

Even though the House overwhelmingly passed a "resolution" deeming Obama a citizen, I have doubts that the right wing will move on to another story. I have a feeling that the fringe wants to find a 21st century way to say "he's a (insert racial slur here)" so they can continue to demonize him, regardless of policy, or whip their base into a frenzy. I'd rather see policy debate and disagreement instead of "He's an Arab" and "he's not a citizen" because they can't say "he's a ******."

Wow? I suggest you not type again with dumb opinions such as that. Im not a party member for any party, but to say whole party wing is racist is about the same ignorance as a racist. Most people just dont know all the facts, and Obama didnt help the issue when his admin delayed showing proof of birth, not to mention the fact that he gave up his citizenship then re-became a citizen after finishing a school in indonesia. So its just alot of confusion with the facts, not racism.

[LegalSmash]

Actually, Drox, a minor is not capable of consenting to a change of citizenship, nor can he be stripped of citizenship if born "American" so to speak.

I'm right here. Period.

[Drox]

Actually, Drox, a minor is not capable of consenting to a change of citizenship, nor can he be stripped of citizenship if born "American" so to speak.

I'm right here. Period.

Was he a minor when that happened? Also I dont believe it was stripped, he actually gave it up to become a indonesian citizen, or can a person be a other country citizen aswell as keeping their American citizen since I thought you cant.

[LegalSmash]

Was he a minor when that happened? Also I dont believe it was stripped, he actually gave it up to become a indonesian citizen, or can a person be a other country citizen aswell as keeping their American citizen since I thought you cant.
he was a minor, it was elementary school, he attended harvard in his higher education. As for dual citizenship you ARE allowed to have it, red is a dual citizen, for example. I have relatives who were born in overseas military installations, off base due to labor occurring on vacations who have dual citizenship, that does not make them any less american. The term
"born american" means the person was naturally born a united states citizen, rather than naturalized. Arnold Schwartzenneger cannot be president because he naturalized. ANY of us, born here, or to military parents, american citizens, or even those great anchor babies, have the right to run for, and be elected president.

This birther movement IS essentially the new way to ask if the president can show his "non-durka" card, and it IS annoying, especially for those of us that are conservative but are not stupid enough to think this is as big an issue as the economy, job security, or the nation's other glaring problems that have not been addressed.

Your assertion is incorrect.

[Drox]

he was a minor, it was elementary school, he attended harvard in his higher education. As for dual citizenship you ARE allowed to have it, red is a dual citizen, for example. I have relatives who were born in overseas military installations, off base due to labor occurring on vacations who have dual citizenship, that does not make them any less american. The term
"born american" means the person was naturally born a united states citizen, rather than naturalized. Arnold Schwartzenneger cannot be president because he naturalized. ANY of us, born here, or to military parents, american citizens, or even those great anchor babies, have the right to run for, and be elected president.

This birther movement IS essentially the new way to ask if the president can show his "non-durka" card, and it IS annoying, especially for those of us that are conservative but are not stupid enough to think this is as big an issue as the economy, job security, or the nation's other glaring problems that have not been addressed.

Your assertion is incorrect.

hmm I understand now

[LegalSmash]

hmm I understand now

Don't get me wrong, if there is/and there are, reasons why the man is not particularly effective on X or Y reason, I'll be the first to rail on them, but the shit that's coming out of the fringe, and well, at this point, the GOP in general, is just sad.

[Hunt3r.j2]

Hunter, I'm usually quite anti-liberal, but seriously, I need to know WHERE you think the policies are fucking "US" collectively in the ass. Please expound on this, because I, a self made, self employed, struggling lawyer, who watches politics semi-constantly, think he's generally doing a competent job, considering the situation of the economy and the state of the nation as he took it.

I've been paying taxes since I was 14 years old, in 1996, thats clinton era... my taxes at the time were the same as they were when I worked in college, I always paid. Bush gave tax cuts, for which I didn't receive SHIT, but the top 5% did. I didn't receive any student loan assistance, nor "extra" money for doing well in college. I put myself through school, yet, the GOP's 8 years helped me in no way whatsoever... no wait, my interest rates for student loans were allowed to climb off legislation passed in 2004. That's not help though, last I recall... unless helping me get FURTHER in debt is a good thing. Which it's not.

Between shitty regulatory practices, lack of oversight, and bad business practices that were not properly monitored, the banks did stupid shit that allowed the economy to collapse. The GOP 2 years AFTER the problem was clearly evident decided to say "it was not a good idea' in congressional record... that's the extent of their contribution to "fixing"... I fail to see the good here.

Therefore, I enter a work force that is chronically unemployed, a client pool that is habitually pressed for money and does not pay on time, and ON TOP OF THIS SHIT, loans that MUST be paid, despite the lack of available work, money, or financial confidence, again directly attributable to the 2007 to now crash.

If this guy can manage to pass something that even remotely rewards my work, student loan forgiveness work, more federal jobs, or gets congress to pass a HC bill that makes a new agency, creates new postings, or some sort of bill allowing for growth so I can work in to pay my bills, I'll seriously vote for him in 2008.

The biggest "contribution" the past 8 years saw to me, and people like me, lower middle class, working class first generation Americans who worked hard, save their money, borrow responsibly, and seek to advance themselves is effectively: Nothing...

Illegal immigrants pretty much got treated with dignity and amnesty here, abortion got WAY more attention than it ever should have, and science was ridiculed for the sake of religiously based "explanations. Schools suffered, property taxes went retarded, and more "morally superior" GOP men got nailed with solicitation of minors (that fuck foley), gay prostitution solicitation (shoe boy), and other acts of idiocy.

I'm not even going to TOUCH the wars here. The sad thing is, I don't need to, and I'm a registered GOP member, and I know this shit firsthand.

The funny thing is, that considering ALL the above, as long as Black Magic Jesus manages not to faceplant, he'll still seem like less of a clusterfuck because he knows how to speak in a comforting, engaging manner. The gift of the silver tongue.

We got fucked over because of the fact that we're, you know, our national debt is bad enough that at this point, our gov. is going to ruin us too. Inflating away national debt is still on the table to the gov, and that's really irritating, since that means everyone gets poor. Even if we don't inflate it away, it'll be in the form of taxes. In essence, this crushing debt means more taxes, in order to try and push it down. The GOP obviously screwed up like you said, but the Dems won't help much more either.

What we really need is a Libertarian president who doesn't scare the shit out of everyone.

[LegalSmash]

We got fucked over because of the fact that we're, you know, our national debt is bad enough that at this point, our gov. is going to ruin us too. Inflating away national debt is still on the table to the gov, and that's really irritating, since that means everyone gets poor. Even if we don't inflate it away, it'll be in the form of taxes. In essence, this crushing debt means more taxes, in order to try and push it down. The GOP obviously screwed up like you said, but the Dems won't help much more either.

What we really need is a Libertarian president who doesn't scare the shit out of everyone.

Okay dude, put down the Paultard sign, the Rush Limbaugh hat, and pick up the tax code. we are at the lowest tax point federally in modern US history. The lowering of taxes on the highest group has achieved nothing for the middle class, nor for small business, because the top 5% who import or purchase on site most of their crap, in other affluent areas, from other affluent people, not in the suburbs in the minimall.

Second, the rate is currently at less than 39%, for the HIGHEST income bracket. As recently as 1986 (Reagan years, FYI) it was @ 72% marginal rate, and if you'd read what was previously stated in my posts, you'd notice that during Eisenhower's highly successful presidency, it was 92% highest marginal rate. That means they ONLY keep 8% of their 1 income over 1 million.

The highest rate can stand to go up without collapsing the economy if it will allow for the services inherent in the health care bills to come to fruition, cutting out millions of dollars spent by you, me, and Eileen on inflated premiums for healthcare from private companies if we wished to use the less frills federal option (if done correctly as per my last few posts on this issue, which once again, is NOT a single payer system).

Additionally, the concept of "don't tax, don't spend" leads to worse issues than inflation, look at the 1929-1933 period of the great depression, under which GOP president Hoover did NOTHING to attempt to provide some sort of relief to the rank and file of the citizenry, resulting in a prolonged, problematic economy until nearly the middle of our involvement in WWII.

Reality is, we have 350 million people in this country, give or take, and clinging to the hope that a president with 1800's classical school of thought libertarian economics will come around, get elected, and somehow SAVE everything by taking us back to antebellum US is hilarious, not to mention ludicrous.

In the day and age we live in taxes are a necessary aspect of governance. We've had them since the beginning of this country, and using them to achieve useful societal goals is not a bad thing. I'm not saying that taxes are great, but its stupid to think they will ruin everything.

Your entire post sounds like you basically regurgitated everything off a bad Glenn Beck rant. Inflating away the national debt is not an option, it has never been an option. If anything, paying SOME down by AVOIDING GREATER debt in 2-3 years is more valuable than doing nothing, sticking head in sand and pretending the monies will just appear "after the recession". We NEED to invest in our nation's infrastructure, or we'll suffer problems that will make the problems you poorly express seem like the mystery for the rescue rangers.

Lastly, you seem to have a tax fetish, read the above, as well as the IRS code, get to know the code and realize that YOUR definition of taxation, and your understanding of it, is the same as Terry Schiavo's ability to play soccer post mortem. There are MANY ways to pay off debt, bankroll national debt, or move out of it WITHOUT SOLELY relying on taxation, Government bonds, Treasury bills, Investment options into national trusts and national work projects, THESE are SAFE, predictable, and long term ways in which the US can cover the debt, and it can come with the added bonus that the citizen can make some money on her investment... its just not the high ass interest rates involved with private fund investments... because you are not likely to have the US treasury welch on investments... unlike say... AIG, Citi, WAMU, Worldcom, Oceanbank, BTT, or W.U.

Take a deep breath, take off the aluminum foil hat... the world isn't ending, and the supreme court won't allow anything too crazy to go on...

Goddamn, people, there IS such a thing as a difference between Conservative Thinker and a conserva-tard. Know the difference and act accordingly.

[PotshotPolka]

Reality is, we have 350 million people in this country, give or take, and clinging to the hope that a president with 1800's classical school of thought libertarian economics will come around, get elected, and somehow SAVE everything by taking us back to antebellum US is hilarious, not to mention ludicrous.
I object.

Doing so would indeed take us on a path very similar to Russia in the 1990s when their entire infrastructure imploded.


The true libertarian approach will not, and can not be pursued under current conditions, as you said, simply because the government (all levels) is entrenched deeply enough in many sectors of the economy. If Ron Paul came in tomorrow and burned down every single government agency not directly related to killing communists or keeping law and order the political backlash would ride on fast as the economy readjusted to a true, equitable free economy, and it would all be blamed on classical economic principles. This is, of course, ignoring the trillions of debt that are actually going to cause this event to occur anyways, granted not as quickly or as drastically as the afformentioned king of single-minded fools that give a bad goddamn name to classical liberals (I.E. Libertarians).

People don't get the goddamn debt problem, because they believe the national debt is just that, a "national" problem. U.S. consumerism, a slowing manufacturing base which has shifted into primarily service industry driven economy, and the rise of foreign corporations capable of usurping American trade dominance has also caused a trade deficit, I.E. we import more than we export, and even beyond that, we consume more than we produce as a whole. That in itself is a bad sign.

I, like many (lol, all) Economists contend that it is too late to prevent a nationwide bankruptcy, since the debt has already reached levels that will not be able to balanced with current budget plans (neither the conservative Laffer Curve or Keynesian Cross have shit on this bubble, neither can contend with it since a Classical nor Keynesian model system was made to deal with a national debt that has overtaken national production), holy motherfucking batman deficits aside.

This simply means, on the day that the government can no longer secure funding, most likely do the a new policy introduced by the Chinese which would most likely cause a ripple effect scaring every off other creditors, who will also attempt to call in on as many loans as possible.

Nonvital programs, what some would call "pork" or earmarks would be slashed first, as well as state funding. States governments all over would face budget crises with no creditors, and no method other than shearing off spending of their own left and right. I cannot say much about local level governments, but I would assume metropolitan areas with larger public works would be hit hard as well.

To all those preparing to hoist the Rebel Flag in anticipation, drop them, regime change ain't that easy. The Union won't implode, Texas won't seceed, nukes won't fly, China won't invade (this debt crash would hurt the Chinese economy as badly as the U.S.)


I cannot say for certain if the administration acknowledges this, but I believe they do, and the health bill is a major factor in this. If there is any hope in stopping a complete crash, there is only, truly two options: Default, or otherwise known as the political suicide of an entire party, or manipulate the economy to the point that certain sectors (healthcare) are made to become less cumbersome. I will need to read the bill in its entirety to say for certain, and I very well may, but putting price ceilings on insurance premiums, and putting other restrictions regulations on Insurance Companies is method of attempting this.

The Climate Bill is a goddamn antithesis to this, and is why there is internal fighting over it, damned if I know, it could just be a feint to say "We tried" for reelection time. (Thinking like this warps my damned mind)
Such as bill will simply ventilate entire portions of the remaining U.S. industrial base, further weakening our trade deficit. It's like the Democratic party is attempting to perform intestinal surgery and hari kari at the same time. That is why it simply won't fly.


So to digress, mixed economies, socialism, Keynesian policies, Neoclassical policies, Democrats, Social Democrats, Christian Democrats, Liberals, Neo-liberals, and all of their like will never truly succeed for one fundamental reason, they are illogical. They cannot exist by allowing logical outcomes: China economy cannot exist without leaching off the once mighty economic power of the U.S. (See SEZs, a Chinese project to inject capital into their own economy by warping their own communist idealogy for practicality), the U.S. cannot sustain itself with current policies hobbling many sectors, so China became a crutch to U.S., and us to them.

This is, simply put, ludicrous, a contradiction that will in time correct itself.



I should fucking copy paste all of these rants of mine and take them to my dean to explain why I don't need to take GEN ED classes.

[Hunt3r.j2]

Okay dude, put down the Paultard sign, the Rush Limbaugh hat, and pick up the tax code. we are at the lowest tax point federally in modern US history. The lowering of taxes on the highest group has achieved nothing for the middle class, nor for small business, because the top 5% who import or purchase on site most of their crap, in other affluent areas, from other affluent people, not in the suburbs in the minimall.

Second, the rate is currently at less than 39%, for the HIGHEST income bracket. As recently as 1986 (Reagan years, FYI) it was @ 72% marginal rate, and if you'd read what was previously stated in my posts, you'd notice that during Eisenhower's highly successful presidency, it was 92% highest marginal rate. That means they ONLY keep 8% of their 1 income over 1 million.

The highest rate can stand to go up without collapsing the economy if it will allow for the services inherent in the health care bills to come to fruition, cutting out millions of dollars spent by you, me, and Eileen on inflated premiums for healthcare from private companies if we wished to use the less frills federal option (if done correctly as per my last few posts on this issue, which once again, is NOT a single payer system).

Additionally, the concept of "don't tax, don't spend" leads to worse issues than inflation, look at the 1929-1933 period of the great depression, under which GOP president Hoover did NOTHING to attempt to provide some sort of relief to the rank and file of the citizenry, resulting in a prolonged, problematic economy until nearly the middle of our involvement in WWII.

Reality is, we have 350 million people in this country, give or take, and clinging to the hope that a president with 1800's classical school of thought libertarian economics will come around, get elected, and somehow SAVE everything by taking us back to antebellum US is hilarious, not to mention ludicrous.

In the day and age we live in taxes are a necessary aspect of governance. We've had them since the beginning of this country, and using them to achieve useful societal goals is not a bad thing. I'm not saying that taxes are great, but its stupid to think they will ruin everything.

Your entire post sounds like you basically regurgitated everything off a bad Glenn Beck rant. Inflating away the national debt is not an option, it has never been an option. If anything, paying SOME down by AVOIDING GREATER debt in 2-3 years is more valuable than doing nothing, sticking head in sand and pretending the monies will just appear "after the recession". We NEED to invest in our nation's infrastructure, or we'll suffer problems that will make the problems you poorly express seem like the mystery for the rescue rangers.

Lastly, you seem to have a tax fetish, read the above, as well as the IRS code, get to know the code and realize that YOUR definition of taxation, and your understanding of it, is the same as Terry Schiavo's ability to play soccer post mortem. There are MANY ways to pay off debt, bankroll national debt, or move out of it WITHOUT SOLELY relying on taxation, Government bonds, Treasury bills, Investment options into national trusts and national work projects, THESE are SAFE, predictable, and long term ways in which the US can cover the debt, and it can come with the added bonus that the citizen can make some money on her investment... its just not the high ass interest rates involved with private fund investments... because you are not likely to have the US treasury welch on investments... unlike say... AIG, Citi, WAMU, Worldcom, Oceanbank, BTT, or W.U.

Take a deep breath, take off the aluminum foil hat... the world isn't ending, and the supreme court won't allow anything too crazy to go on...

Goddamn, people, there IS such a thing as a difference between Conservative Thinker and a conserva-tard. Know the difference and act accordingly.

Well since I don't exactly have a good response, and everything you say sounds good, then alright. But Obama seems to be very much like Hoover.

I'm reading off a Harper's article, so this may or may not be exactly factual.

Hoover, like Obama, understood exactly the challenges we faced, and he was probably the only politician who really understood how bad this Depression was going to be. The problem is that he did everything slowly when he had to do it fast. Everyone thought of him the same way as Obama. He seemed like the genius who was going to fix our problems.

Now I believe that there are different circumstances under play, but Obama, contrary to all predictions and beliefs, will fail. It's because he didn't move fast enough.

I'm thinking that the Great Depression won't happen again, but I think that the recession will last until at least next year or two. Certainly doesn't show signs of letting up. Once the unemployment rates start rising, then we'll know for sure that the economy is coming back into force.

Bubbles are driven by herd behavior, and us thinking that we have more then we really do. When the bubble bursts, and we hit rock bottom, that is when every person has their own ideas where the market will go.

I read that little bit from Popular Science. Probably not exactly the best source, but it still applies.

So I guess that we need to account for herd behavior in economics. That, and we need to bring more production back in the US. We need to MAKE stuff, because we need people to make stuff.

[PotshotPolka]

Well since I don't exactly have a good response, and everything you say sounds good, then alright. But Obama seems to be very much like Carter.



fixed.

Hoover =/= Obama, period.

And the article you read is not very empirically inclined either, but what is these days?

[Hunt3r.j2]

fixed.

Hoover =/= Obama, period.

And the article you read is not very empirically inclined either, but what is these days?

Well yes, I suppose Obama is the new Carter, since, you know, Obama is getting into things that are small and really screw him up.

[roach coach]

Don't get me wrong, if there is/and there are, reasons why the man is not particularly effective on X or Y reason, I'll be the first to rail on them, but the shit that's coming out of the fringe, and well, at this point, the GOP in general, is just sad.

This. I'm all for policy debate and discussion, but the "boogeyman" card these birthers are using is only effective for a fringe, not a political party. :crazy:

[LegalSmash]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/AltheKiller2113/mirrion.jpg

[Drox]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/AltheKiller2113/mirrion.jpg

I lol'd so hard

[Hunt3r.j2]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/AltheKiller2113/mirrion.jpg

I fucking lol't.