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Gumpy
12 May 2009, 04:33am
How did this rule come about, that the community isn't allowed to see admin apps? How is Steamgamers even still called a community, even though the important things are kept hidden from the regular members? "All people are equal, but some are more equal than others" springs to mind...

It just annoys me that I have no real say in the running of this "Community" and that I have to trust others to do the right thing.

tank40175
12 May 2009, 05:19am
The admins apps are in Supporter section. So if you are paying supporter, then you could see them. I guess the reason is that you have to be paying for supporter to apply for admin now.

Trogdor
12 May 2009, 05:46am
I guess they should be able to see it as to see what's going on and who's getting upgraded in the community because they dont really have a way of finding who is being upgraded and who's not. Kind of like being left in the dark but..

I do not think that everybody in the community should be able to vote though. That would almost be too much I think. They maybe should get to post on the apps., show people what they think of the applicant because if he's bad around regulars and great around admins, you guys wont have a good way of knowing who's good/bad (besides going undercover).

Dante
12 May 2009, 07:39am
Along wiht the CA upgrades and what not.

Gumpy
12 May 2009, 07:41am
Along wiht the CA upgrades and what not.

No. Then it will turn into a popularity contest, and someone everyone likes but has no positive skills to bring to the CA would get a promotion they don't deserve. The CA system is fine the way it is.

Caution
12 May 2009, 07:49am
Personally, I agree with you Gumpy. If I'm going to give my support or no-support on an applicant, I want to hear everybody's experiences with him, not just some SA's asses he might have kissed.

Daze
12 May 2009, 07:55am
This is being looked at.

Kay
12 May 2009, 10:35am
I think that all members of the community should have a say about who the leaders are. We should be allowed to at least see it and post in it. But I don't think we should be allowed to vote because then the new admins will show favortism towards the regular players who voted for him.

Huwajux
12 May 2009, 11:12am
I feel that regulars and higher should be allowed to have their say and vote (sorry members). There is no harm in gaining a second opinion...or ten.

Dracula
12 May 2009, 12:49pm
Hell id just like too look at em, not even post if it comes down to it.

Frostbyte
12 May 2009, 01:13pm
I agree. I think HG's should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to judging admin apps. A decent portion of us are ex-admins ourselves, and even the ones that aren't have still been here long enough to know what to expect from an applicant.

Thats my two cents.

XeNo
12 May 2009, 01:49pm
I think the rule was put into effect due to new people to the forums spamming it up saying 'good player, support' and not many people really giving any reason. So they made it supporter/admin only thinking they'll have better reasons for supporting.

It didn't really change anything though.

Hazardous
12 May 2009, 03:06pm
Apparently the opinions of people who can pay a couple bucks, are more important than the rest of the entire community.

Italian Jew
12 May 2009, 03:09pm
One of these again!?

:puke:

Drox
12 May 2009, 03:14pm
It would be nice to see this, where Reg's up can look and give their opinions on future admins of the community.

andre1028
12 May 2009, 04:21pm
"All people are equal, but some are more equal than others"

George Orwell?

Toxin
12 May 2009, 04:32pm
Totally agreed. What happened guys? Money is now much more important than some of our most important regulars that just can't afford it or - by the way this community has lately treated them - just don't want to spend money on it. Let them vote for it or at least have a look at them, I would believe the opinion/vote of one of our regulars like Legal or Dracula much more than some supporter who barely has a dozen posts and has been here for 2 weeks who probably just support for popularity or thanks or rep or shit...

Shadowex3
12 May 2009, 05:40pm
Apparently the opinions of people who can pay a couple bucks, are more important than the rest of the entire community.

This.

When I first registered here getting admin meant that other admins AND other regulars had to recognize and respect you, a few non-paying regulars who brought up valid reasons why someone shouldn't get admin could get an application killed. Admins who posted in ban appeals and admin complaints they were not directly involved in were dealt with harshly, and pretty much every appeal was handled as sanely as Venemous tries to.

Look at what we've got now. Admittedly the new system is better than what it was just recently since it requires SOME kind of oversight but there's admins going into the admin complaints and ban appeals section and ganging up on people. Just recently a dude got an appeal denied even though the original banning admin explicitly left notes to automatically remove it if it was ever appealed because he lost his temper after no less than 3 totally random people showed up and outright trolled him. What kind of conduct is that?

My pet crusade (zombie health) is just an example of the sort of backwards slide Zombie Murder's been experiencing ever since it became a commodity rather than a community. Even in the face of utterly massive demand for an equally massive increase in health (which would still be lower than what it once was) the health is increase by a mere 500HP. In the meantime zombies still burn multiple times, which was once considered a showstopping bug worthy of rebooting servers to fix, and the regen is either gone or the hud doesn't update properly to show it.

I was proud of being a regular at Zombie Murder. Steamgamers... I'm getting dissapointed at the lower level of conduct expected of both players and admins. Even Henda, as much as I thought that dude seriously needed to learn to control his temper, would never have given less than a week for half of what is either ignored or given a 1day ban nowadays.

[/getoffmylawn rant]

CandleJack
12 May 2009, 07:20pm
This.

When I first registered here getting admin meant that other admins AND other regulars had to recognize and respect you, a few non-paying regulars who brought up valid reasons why someone shouldn't get admin could get an application killed. Admins who posted in ban appeals and admin complaints they were not directly involved in were dealt with harshly, and pretty much every appeal was handled as sanely as Venemous tries to.

Look at what we've got now. Admittedly the new system is better than what it was just recently since it requires SOME kind of oversight but there's admins going into the admin complaints and ban appeals section and ganging up on people. Just recently a dude got an appeal denied even though the original banning admin explicitly left notes to automatically remove it if it was ever appealed because he lost his temper after no less than 3 totally random people showed up and outright trolled him. What kind of conduct is that?

My pet crusade (zombie health) is just an example of the sort of backwards slide Zombie Murder's been experiencing ever since it became a commodity rather than a community. Even in the face of utterly massive demand for an equally massive increase in health (which would still be lower than what it once was) the health is increase by a mere 500HP. In the meantime zombies still burn multiple times, which was once considered a showstopping bug worthy of rebooting servers to fix, and the regen is either gone or the hud doesn't update properly to show it.

I was proud of being a regular at Zombie Murder. Steamgamers... I'm getting dissapointed at the lower level of conduct expected of both players and admins. Even Henda, as much as I thought that dude seriously needed to learn to control his temper, would never have given less than a week for half of what is either ignored or given a 1day ban nowadays.

[/getoffmylawn rant]

I totally agree with Shadow, however dealing with the ban appeal, the banning admin is inactive and couldn't give his 2 cents in the matter, however the player who made the appeal would go off on ANYONE who said anything remotely negative about his appeal. He showed EXTREME disrespect to a Higher up and a few admins.

Back to the matter at hand, regulars should be able to see the applications, why don't we bring back the application forum, only make it that supporters can make threads.

Trogdor
12 May 2009, 07:32pm
I totally agree with Shadow, however dealing with the ban appeal, the banning admin is inactive and couldn't give his 2 cents in the matter, however the player who made the appeal would go off on ANYONE who said anything remotely negative about his appeal. He showed EXTREME disrespect to a Higher up and a few admins.

Back to the matter at hand, regulars should be able to see the applications, why don't we bring back the application forum, only make it that supporters can make threads.

Regs can see and reply and vote, or what arrangement?

I think they should be able to see and reply but not be able to vote in the poll.

Hazardous
12 May 2009, 07:43pm
Regs can see and reply and vote, or what arrangement?

I think they should be able to see and reply but not be able to vote in the poll.

Why because being able to pay for things online makes your opinion more valid than any other's?

CandleJack
12 May 2009, 07:46pm
Why because being able to pay for things online makes your opinion more valid than any other's?

As Hazardous said, ANYONE can pay for supporter and give their 2 cents, however their 2 cents may be total shit and ruin an app, thats why regs/hgs should be able to view because most regs/hgs know most of the players who try to get admin, and if they are worthy or now

Trogdor
12 May 2009, 07:54pm
Why because being able to pay for things online makes your opinion more valid than any other's?


"Paying for things online" is what is keeping the servers alive so it should be privileged but, on the flipside, the regs and HG's are what make up most of the community and you're right, everyones opinion counts. I'm just thinking of how the system worked out last time. It shouldn't be exactly the same should it? I dont know. Just giving a suggestion that I realize now, isn't a good one.

Shadowex3
12 May 2009, 08:22pm
"Paying for things online" is what is keeping the servers alive so it should be privileged but

Two things about taking the paying customer privileges to be anything but skins and reserved slots:

1. We've seen how well THAT worked out.
2. Anyone can be an owner of SG the commodity, not everyone can be a respected member of the COMMUNITY.

If getting to be a regular and then an Honorable Gamer were made MUCH more difficult and exclusive, such that regulars were actual regulars who frequented both the servers AND the forums and HGs were people who've done both for long enough to be genuinely respected in their own right (think non-paying CA) then you'd have a group of people who aren't just in it for the bling and have been around long enough to have a great deal of history to compare things against.

Not all of us have the money or lack of paranoia to pay for things online, and not all of us consider it moral to pay for admin or getting their opinions undue weight.

Trogdor
12 May 2009, 08:56pm
I was just simply saying the donations is what keeps the servers going, and I totally agree with you. I guess the thinking of it was that, for the people that donate, they're helping keep the servers going and run, so they should have more of a say? That's just my guess and I fail at guessing so can somebody tell me why it was made exclusive?

XeNo
12 May 2009, 09:15pm
Apparently the opinions of people who can pay a couple bucks, are more important than the rest of the entire community.
Tbh not what I meant at all.

It's actually just there so that Admins only could cast their vote, but to make the app you have to be able to see it so Supporters can see and vote as well, least I believe this was the original intention.

I don't believe paying makes you more respected, have special privileges, or treated better in any way.

But, while you yourselves may have not done anything to not be able to partake in voting, others (regs/hgs) have. And I believe that's why your privileges to vote were taken away. Just like how some Admins abused some commands, we all got them taken away even if we didn't abuse them.

I can only imagine what would happen if SpEeD could have voted for new Admins, the shit he would cause and that's just one person example. While HG's regs and mems are large group of the community, the foundation, that also means they have more people who will not give a valid opinion. We have enough people making stupid threads, spam one word posts, causing stupid shit all about the forums, we don't need to invite them all into something such as Supporter Upgrade voting.


Now that I've discussed (hopefully to full extent of fact) of why you guys are not allowed to view the forum, I'll agree with you. Yes, I believe personally that you guys should be able to vote and cast your opinion, I believe that it doesn't take much to delete a post if it's invalid. Posts get deleted all the time. However, if it's any consolation, opinions nowadays are not worth much.

The upgrade section is just the same as the old Admin app section, generally it's filled with people who cast an opinion such as 'He's a good player, support' which I'm not going to go into detail about how completely stupid of an opinion this is, I figure you already know.

That being said even if you could post, or vote, what would you believe it'd accomplish? The upgrade section is spammed full of people giving half assed opinions, and some that don't give any at all they just see a familiar name and they vote 'yes' for the hell of it. There's also some form of ritual that all the Supporters do, and when they make a thread, anyone who supports them gets thanks+rep, I have no idea why they do this, other than the obvious to coax people into supporting, but they do it nearly 80% of the time anyways.


So amongst that stupid, overly biased, bullshit, invalid opinion voting, why the fuck would you want to be able to vote? Seriously. Even if a few people say no, and many others say yes (Whether it be with annoying 'good player follows rules, support' comments or not), they still get accepted. (According to last rule I read for being approved they need to win like 70% of votes I think.)


We've had a massive increase of Admins, the last time I looked at the upgrade section, the first page was pretty much that months threads for upgrade, and all I saw was 'ApprovedApprovedApprovedApprovedApprovedApprovedA pprovedApprovedRe-applyApprovedApprovedApproved'
People I have never seen in the servers were now being able to ban people, I like to think I play quite a bit, few hours a day sometimes more, I'll play dust2 hit up escape, spectate in vip, have some laughs in minigames, then every so often pop into PB. And I still have never seen some of these people that get Approved for Admin, just the other day I gave a warning to someone who was blocking, sure enough they say in Admin chat 'lol', a goddamn Admin was blocking people it was stupid as hell.


Anyways.

/rant

If you didn't read, short version:
Your opinions won't change anything to what's happened to Admin Applications these days.

Shadowex3
12 May 2009, 09:56pm
Your opinions won't change anything to what's happened to Admin Applications these days.

Does that make it any less cowardly to not speak when you truly believe it's wrong?

XeNo
12 May 2009, 10:27pm
Does that make it any less cowardly to not speak when you truly believe it's wrong?
Short version is a very short summary of a long post, don't take it as my only point.

If you want to speak out go ahead, it won't change anything though.

Shadowex3
12 May 2009, 11:05pm
No, it won't change anything and that is pretty tragic. But, it still means something to those of us that DO speak.

Gumpy
13 May 2009, 03:00am
George Orwell?

Yep. I was wondering if anyone would get the animal farm reference.

Trogdor
13 May 2009, 05:17am
I'll play dust2 hit up escape, spectate in vip, have some laughs in minigames, then every so often pop into PB.

:sad: No surf?

Anyways I see what you mean.

Daze
13 May 2009, 05:27am
This isn't very interesting but here is a screen shot so you can see who's been approved/rejected/told to reapply or pending in the current page.

http://f.imagehost.org/0379/adminapp.jpg

Chobber
13 May 2009, 06:03am
I could see Regulars and HGs being able to post in the admin-upgrade threads as well.. Maybe not the SG.Mems as they havent been integrated "enough" into the society as of yet..

Fast Bullet
13 May 2009, 06:54am
I liked the old days when i was a reg, when i could see who was up for admin so i could kiss ass him be4 he gets its :toung:..But yea seriously i believe every single person in this community needs to see who is going for admin.

Scree :O
13 May 2009, 07:39am
The so called "old days" bullet are around 2-3 weeks ago.

Well then atleast let us SG.members see the application. As I've been a part (a small one, but nonetheless) of this community for a long time and only joined the forums this weekend, a sort of " Regular Member" if you will. There are many people here that are like that here that would love to see what's going on and express their opinion if it's negative. Not vote or anything just allow us to post.

This coming from a member, but please consider it.

B o B
13 May 2009, 08:05am
I could see Regulars and HGs being able to post in the admin-upgrade threads as well.. Maybe not the SG.Mems as they havent been integrated "enough" into the society as of yet..

This. Good point

Suri
13 May 2009, 09:57am
T I would believe the opinion/vote of one of our regulars like Legal or Dracula much more than some supporter who barely has a dozen posts and has been here for 2 weeks who probably just support for popularity or thanks or rep or shit...

Ok Toxin this is one reason you can't be taken seriously. You named two people here that you would trust. (Legal no offence) Legal does not even play on the servers with these people that would be applying for admin. So how can he give his full input on some one applying for admin for these servers.

And I wont comment on Drac.

Also why do people jump on a bandwagon that the higher ups dont give a rip of what the community thinks, and only paying members get a voice. I am not 100% sure the reason Haggard did it this way, but I am sure it was for a reason. Now it does not mean this can't change.

But I know I liked less post of " I never seen this guy No Support" Or other people just jumping on the bandwagon of another persons input. I think bringing it into the supporter section help cut that down some, and the admins were able to vote on the person that would be working alongside them in the servers.

But like I said this could change.

B o B
13 May 2009, 10:23am
Just a proposal: If u never seen the guy. Donīt post ;P

Suri
13 May 2009, 11:43am
Just a proposal: If u never seen the guy. Donīt post ;P

Like we never tried that ;) Yeah does not work. People don't listen or just don't get it at all.

B o B
13 May 2009, 12:20pm
Like we never tried that ;) Yeah does not work. People don't listen or just don't get it at all.

key. I would love to atleast watch the applys. Maybe make it so only Admins and above can post. If there is a serious problem with the dude applying for admin they can pm a BD and talk it over. just a thought ;P

Dracula
13 May 2009, 12:53pm
Hell id just like too look at em, not even post if it comes down to it.

:usa2:

Huwajux
13 May 2009, 01:02pm
Could there not be a way for regular posts to be approved before they are displayed? Or would this be too much hassle?

Frostbyte
13 May 2009, 01:19pm
I want a SS of the teachers lounge. I need to see if Astrum installed those ergonomic chairs.

B o B
13 May 2009, 02:53pm
Maybe that Super HG thing wasnt a bad idea if we tweak it a little bit. Where the GOOD HG's can view the upgrade request forms. Cause some regs will just support anybody without even caring. People like Drac would be honest and should be aloud to view the requests without being Sup. We dont have to call them Super HG's or anything we could just give them the ability to see them. Cause I know there are a select few who don't care if your their friend or not they will tell you like it is. And most of them are the long time HG's/Regs

Well the good regs then ?? I personally think that ppl with more than 4 mounths on the server should be allowed to vote and post... No inactiv members but.

Hiphopopotomus
13 May 2009, 06:15pm
I think that if we were allowed to see and vote on admin application that it would be a Yay or Nay, no explanation, and then the high-up calculate the yays to nays and make their decision on top of that.

Shadowex3
13 May 2009, 08:36pm
Maybe that Super HG thing wasnt a bad idea if we tweak it a little bit. Where the GOOD HG's can view the upgrade request forms. Cause some regs will just support anybody without even caring. People like Drac would be honest and should be aloud to view the requests without being Sup. We dont have to call them Super HG's or anything we could just give them the ability to see them. Cause I know there are a select few who don't care if your their friend or not they will tell you like it is. And most of them are the long time HG's/Regs

You could always just downgrade all the HGs to reg, most of the regs to member, and then raise the bar for getting to the higher levels to save some paperwork.


Like we never tried that ;) Yeah does not work. People don't listen or just don't get it at all.

There's an easy solution to that: Discipline. After the first few people rack up enough warnings to get a week long vacation from the forums and servers they'll all learn self control. I remember seeing more than one admin get absolutely chewed out for posting in an admin complaint they werent involved in.

Then again I'm a harsh sonofabitch.

Hazardous
13 May 2009, 09:09pm
You could always just downgrade all the HGs to reg, most of the regs to member, and then raise the bar for getting to the higher levels to save some paperwork.


I love this idea.

Hazardous
17 May 2009, 10:45pm
Have we reached a verdict?

Shadowex3
18 May 2009, 12:40am
Steamgamers moves somewhere inbetween the speed of congress and the IRS when they owe you money.

Dante
18 May 2009, 07:20am
The reason they don't let you guys post or view on Admin apps because it could be a 14yr old kid applying and it could be some responds to that like ppl spamming No because of his voice. And disrespect on the admin apps.

Its kept between us so that we can give our opinion and help them improve. Or help them to become admin. It's because some ppl can't hlep themselves but to spam complete nonsense on posts that we don't let you guys see the admin apps. and why they don't let SAs see other stuff too like Cs approval till after.

It's how its done and if you don't like it i say get over it I really don't see that changing anytime soon.

Huwajux
18 May 2009, 09:12am
The reason they don't let you guys post or view on Admin apps because it could be a 14yr old kid applying and it could be some responds to that like ppl spamming No because of his voice. And disrespect on the admin apps.

Its kept between us so that we can give our opinion and help them improve. Or help them to become admin. It's because some ppl can't hlep themselves but to spam complete nonsense on posts that we don't let you guys see the admin apps. and why they don't let SAs see other stuff too like Cs approval till after.

It's how its done and if you don't like it i say get over it I really don't see that changing anytime soon.
If punishments were to be issued over ridiculous reasons then this should stop. I'd at the very least like people to know who the new admins are and to have have some sort of say, even if they cannot vote, a valid input should always be appreciated. If rude and insulting comments are made, then their posts should be deleted and a punishment put in place accordingly.

Dante
18 May 2009, 10:27am
yeah i agree with that like after an admin is voted for and the results are in there should be a new section just for what ppl feel like about those ppl becomeing admin. I think it would help alittle.

DoubleSb
18 May 2009, 11:23am
The reason they don't let you guys post or view on Admin apps because it could be a 14yr old kid applying and it could be some responds to that like ppl spamming No because of his voice. And disrespect on the admin apps.

Its kept between us so that we can give our opinion and help them improve. Or help them to become admin. It's because some ppl can't hlep themselves but to spam complete nonsense on posts that we don't let you guys see the admin apps. and why they don't let SAs see other stuff too like Cs approval till after.

It's how its done and if you don't like it i say get over it I really don't see that changing anytime soon.

Is there a problem with Age?
Some 13, 14 ,15 year olds are mature for their age.

Huwajux
18 May 2009, 11:48am
yeah i agree with that like after an admin is voted for and the results are in there should be a new section just for what ppl feel like about those ppl becomeing admin. I think it would help alittle.
No, that would just be an e-penis booster if it were done after the application.

Dracula
18 May 2009, 12:48pm
The reason they don't let you guys post or view on Admin apps because it could be a 14yr old kid applying and it could be some responds to that like ppl spamming No because of his voice. And disrespect on the admin apps.

Its kept between us so that we can give our opinion and help them improve. Or help them to become admin. It's because some ppl can't hlep themselves but to spam complete nonsense on posts that we don't let you guys see the admin apps. and why they don't let SAs see other stuff too like Cs approval till after.

It's how its done and if you don't like it i say get over it I really don't see that changing anytime soon.

Dante how long did we have it so EVERYONE could post in them? Oh wait you wouldnt know.

Toxin
18 May 2009, 02:01pm
The reason they don't let you guys post or view on Admin apps because it could be a 14yr old kid applying and it could be some responds to that like ppl spamming No because of his voice. And disrespect on the admin apps.

Its kept between us so that we can give our opinion and help them improve. Or help them to become admin. It's because some ppl can't hlep themselves but to spam complete nonsense on posts that we don't let you guys see the admin apps. and why they don't let SAs see other stuff too like Cs approval till after.

It's how its done and if you don't like it i say get over it I really don't see that changing anytime soon.

If you don't know it, dont say anything.
The public admin approval system has worked excellent for close to two years.
You have been here for 2 months, you don't really know how it was before this and I think the only reason the applications had been made invisble to the public is because you need to be Supporter to apply and therefore this was moved to supporter/admin section. I think this will be changed soon.

DoubleSb
18 May 2009, 03:06pm
If you don't know it, dont say anything.
The public admin approval system has worked excellent for close to two years.
You have been here for 2 months, you don't really know how it was before this and I think the only reason the applications had been made invisble to the public is because you need to be Supporter to apply and therefore this was moved to supporter/admin section. I think this will be changed soon.

This.

Noobster
18 May 2009, 05:08pm
yah....its not really fair anymore, itd be better to even see it, now whenever im in game i see ppl ive never even seen before with admin. idk its just wierd

Lux
18 May 2009, 05:17pm
IMO, I'm not sure if non admins should be voting for people who are going to become admins. My reasoning behind that is that I'm not sure if people who haven't been accepted as admin can be trusted to give a fair view on who should be admin. Ofcourse not everyone is the same, but all the stupid yes' and no's from the past come to mind.

However, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to see the thread atleast.

Doctordan
18 May 2009, 05:26pm
IMO, I'm not sure if non admins should be voting for people who are going to become admins. My reasoning behind that is that I'm not sure if people who haven't been accepted as admin can be trusted to give a fair view on who should be admin. Ofcourse not everyone is the same, but all the stupid yes' and no's from the past come to mind.

However, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to see the thread atleast.
make it so certain user groups cant post i think the point is that we want to see whos getting admin

DoubleSb
18 May 2009, 06:40pm
make it so certain user groups cant post i think the point is that we want to see whos getting admin

No... How about a monitored post for HG-

Hazardous
18 May 2009, 06:40pm
No... How about a monitored post for HG-

WWaLxFIVX1s&autoplay=1

Doctordan
18 May 2009, 06:46pm
No... How about a monitored post for HG-
well, honestly unless you pay your oppnion doesnt matter any more i think just to see it is enough for me

Italian Jew
18 May 2009, 08:26pm
WWaLxFIVX1s&autoplay=1

Damnit, that is my thing used for departed members!

ReGIONALS
18 May 2009, 08:28pm
maybe people that are part of the community like members a regulars should be able to see apps a etc.
but it may cause people to not even become supporters which would make SG crash and thus burn.

Caution
18 May 2009, 10:34pm
Let's go back to the way it used to be. All in favor, say aye.

Tcp-Kill
19 May 2009, 12:45am
Well, we could make it so below sup can SEE, but that is as far as it goes.

XeNo
19 May 2009, 12:50am
Well, we could make it so below sup can SEE, but that is as far as it goes.
Anything to shut them up at this point, tbh.

Henrik
19 May 2009, 04:09am
So supporters can say what they mean, even if nobody knows them. Because they give money.
And people who have been here for a long time and doesn't give money can't say what they mean, because they don't give money.

Dante
19 May 2009, 06:35am
Basically....

trakaill
19 May 2009, 01:10pm
why are you people wanting to see it so bad...because honestly its nothing special..
essentially you pay 10 bucks and if you behave on the server you get upgraded to admin, most times....its not like HG are gonna be influencing anything..
If the point of this is just to see who gets admin then...Im sure someone wil be willing to tell eveyone else who got approved......

Frostbyte
19 May 2009, 01:44pm
Back when everyone could see, as mentioned about 40 times in this thread, people would post a 3 word response and it wouldn't even give you a concise answer. People did do it from time to time, but most of the time, a post would get deleted or something, and the natural flow would keep going.

I honestly doubt that the reasoning behind non-payers not being able to see admin apps or "upgrades" is because the community doesn't value their opinion.

DoubleSb
19 May 2009, 03:06pm
why are you people wanting to see it so bad...because honestly its nothing special..
essentially you pay 10 bucks and if you behave on the server you get upgraded to admin, most times....its not like HG are gonna be influencing anything..
If the point of this is just to see who gets admin then...Im sure someone wil be willing to tell eveyone else who got approved......

It's not that, it's the fact that we don't know some of the sups that are admin.
To the point of us wanting to be able to see, let alone comment.
And it's possible some aren't able to give 10 dollars.

FightingRooster
19 May 2009, 06:53pm
Why don't we put a thread in the announcements congratulating whoever on their admin status? Is that good enough?

XeNo
19 May 2009, 07:07pm
So supporters can say what they mean, even if nobody knows them. Because they give money.
And people who have been here for a long time and doesn't give money can't say what they mean, because they don't give money.
Cause join date totally means more than money to keep servers running.

Honestly it goes both ways, just cause you've been here a long time doesn't mean your opinion is suddenly worth everything to us.

There are people who have been here for a long time who were still just assholes. SpEeD has done nothing but entirely hurt this 'cause' for wanting to vote on Admins.

Shadowex3
19 May 2009, 09:00pm
Which I could maybe see except that this is a business transaction and not the bestowment of responsibility on old and respected pillars of the community.

DoubleSb
20 May 2009, 10:44am
Why don't we put a thread in the announcements congratulating whoever on their admin status? Is that good enough?

One announcement for a new admin? Spam.

Hazardous
20 May 2009, 03:43pm
Cause join date totally means more than money to keep servers running.

Honestly it goes both ways, just cause you've been here a long time doesn't mean your opinion is suddenly worth everything to us.

There are people who have been here for a long time who were still just assholes. SpEeD has done nothing but entirely hurt this 'cause' for wanting to vote on Admins.

LOL IT GOES BOTH WAYS!

Caution
20 May 2009, 05:24pm
One announcement for a new admin? Spam.

Not really. There are rarely announcements anyway.

Toxin
20 May 2009, 07:33pm
Listen. In my opinion, it is just all ridicolous. People... we have members that have ... financal issues. Are we literally going to "discriminate" them or take away one of the rights one had as a member of the community just because they don't want to or can't afford to pay our commnutity. Again, we have supporters here voting in favor for an admin probably just to gain popularity instead of being honest. Many members are much more active on the servers than admins and experience how other players behave much more intensely because all players tend to act different around an admin. Please guys, change it back. At least only allow Supporters to apply but let members vote for it again! :ohwell:

trakaill
21 May 2009, 12:42pm
Listen. In my opinion, it is just all ridicolous. People... we have members that have ... financal issues. Are we literally going to "discriminate" them or take away one of the rights one had as a member of the community just because they don't want to or can't afford to pay our commnutity. Again, we have supporters here voting in favor for an admin probably just to gain popularity instead of being honest. Many members are much more active on the servers than admins and experience how other players behave much more intensely because all players tend to act different around an admin. Please guys, change it back. At least only allow Supporters to apply but let members vote for it again! :ohwell:

no!

DoubleSb
21 May 2009, 12:49pm
no!

No you!

Dracula
21 May 2009, 12:49pm
Listen. In my opinion, it is just all ridicolous. People... we have members that have ... financal issues. Are we literally going to "discriminate" them or take away one of the rights one had as a member of the community just because they don't want to or can't afford to pay our commnutity. Again, we have supporters here voting in favor for an admin probably just to gain popularity instead of being honest. Many members are much more active on the servers than admins and experience how other players behave much more intensely because all players tend to act different around an admin. Please guys, change it back. At least only allow Supporters to apply but let members vote for it again! :ohwell:

I hope this is the most I will ever thank your posts. QFT!!

Shadowex3
21 May 2009, 05:01pm
no!

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1000/giraffenou.jpg


yes!

B o B
25 May 2009, 05:02am
Bump. Let us see the apply

trakaill
27 May 2009, 07:08pm
Bump. Let us see the apply

Let a BD come in here and say No!

DoubleSb
27 May 2009, 07:12pm
Let a BD come in here and say No!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r211/caution209/bear-how-about-no-wj9.jpg

Ganzta
27 May 2009, 08:18pm
I will look at the 9 pages of discussion later, but I've posted about this issue about 3 months back, and back then the higher ups also told me "this is being looked at"
http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14794
I also made another thread in the admin section but i cant pull that out now

really guys this is suppose to be a community not some corrupted bullshit kind of gov't where the people has to pay just to make an opinion.

I've seen the new admins apps, and for all the members who has never seen them, the most of the new applicants basically realized that all they have to do is to suck up to admins and can be a total dick to all other players and can still be approved.

If we're not going to trust the non-paying members of this community, then stop handing out reg and mem tags like they're cheap coupons.

I remember when I first joined this community the admin apps actually get REJECTED quite often, now it's just like "you don't have any bans, you sound like a good kid, we don't really care about what the members think, so here's your admin."

I would rant more but this would probably be buried in spams or simply ignored and a new thread about this would be started again after a few months.

That's my 2 nickels.

Caution
27 May 2009, 09:56pm
I would love some type of reply other than "this is being looked into..."

Dante
27 May 2009, 10:40pm
I would love some type of reply other than "this is being looked into..."

Wait for it...Wait for it....

I'm gonna go ahead and do what is gonna happen.

"This is being looked into"

Although that won't help whatsoever..... >.>

Bethy
28 May 2009, 03:57am
Caution, hate to say it but it actually really is being looked into.
I'll try my best to make sure something comes of it.

Jaffa
28 May 2009, 04:27am
It takes a week for CA proposals to pass, and its not exactly a quick "click button to make apps visible" thing to do



really guys this is suppose to be a community not some corrupted bullshit kind of gov't where the people has to pay just to make an opinion.

Its a privatly run "community" not some kind of elected democracy. You have the majority of the forum, plus PMs and complaints to make an opinion.


I've seen the new admins apps, and for all the members who has never seen them, the most of the new applicants basically realized that all they have to do is to suck up to admins and can be a total dick to all other players and can still be approved.

And you noticed this whilst you were admin? and did not post it in their applications?


If we're not going to trust the non-paying members of this community, then stop handing out reg and mem tags like they're cheap coupons.

Admin applications have no relevance to who can get the reg/mem tags


I remember when I first joined this community the admin apps actually get REJECTED quite often, now it's just like "you don't have any bans, you sound like a good kid, we don't really care about what the members think, so here's your admin."

Gangsta, before this supporter to upgrade system, the reason we had so many rejected applications was because people would make applications as their first forum post, or would think it an entitlement, that they just needed to pay the money.

Toxin
28 May 2009, 05:10am
It takes a week for CA proposals to pass, and its not exactly a quick "click button to make apps visible" thing to do

My point being, why wasn't something done two weeks ago when this thread was opened or even 3 MONTHS ago when Caution opened his thread?



Its a privatly run "community" not some kind of elected democracy. You have the majority of the forum, plus PMs and complaints to make an opinion.

Yes, but this is what this community has basically based on, it feels like normal Regulars are not trusted anymore, even regulars/members who were ex-admins/supporter




And you noticed this whilst you were admin? and did not post it in their applications?

You can really well think a person looks like perfect admin material when they apply and when they get out there with admin they are behaving like douchebags that think they are above the rules.


Admin applications have no relevance to who can get the reg/mem tags

He's talking about, if the non-paying members of this community don't matter here, you guys should stop giving out reg/mem tags as if they do matter, eventhough they really do not. And I share his opinion on this one.


Gangsta, before this supporter to upgrade system, the reason we had so many rejected applications was because people would make applications as their first forum post, or would think it an entitlement, that they just needed to pay the money.

Not really, the reason so many were rejected is because a non-paying members opinion still mattered. And again, around non-admins, applicants behave a WHOLE LOT different than with an admin supervising them and you should know it.

Tcp-Kill
28 May 2009, 05:28am
My point being, why wasn't something done two weeks ago when this thread was opened or even 3 MONTHS ago when Caution opened his thread?

Things were going on, and we didn't see it as a real issue. Really, it isn't but me and spiked last night were finding a way to do it. This will probably take effect some time in the next few days.


Yes, but this is what this community has basically based on, it feels like normal Regulars are not trusted anymore, even regulars/members who were ex-admins/supporter

*sigh*


You can really well think a person looks like perfect admin material when they apply and when they get out there with admin they are behaving like douchebags that think they are above the rules.

I don't understand this?


He's talking about, if the non-paying members of this community don't matter here, you guys should stop giving out reg/mem tags as if they do matter, eventhough they really do not. And I share his opinion on this one.

The reg tags are designed for players to walk around on servers with the SG in their name, its not about non paying people being special and now they are not.


Not really, the reason so many were rejected is because a non-paying members opinion still mattered. And again, around non-admins, applicants behave a WHOLE LOT different than with an admin supervising them and you should know it.
This idea is completely wrong. I agree some people behave a lot more different, but when they can see; if a reg sees an applicant being a douche they can PM someone.

To be honest, i don't see this as a big massing issue... yes, something is being done.

Jaffa
28 May 2009, 05:33am
I pm'd my response to Toxin.

Suri
28 May 2009, 09:25am
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tactical_facepalm.jpg

I give some people here the face palm because they have no patience at all. We said it's being looked into. Take it for what it's worth. There are things going on behind the scene's. And before you say tell us what they are. Well we won't because you don't need to know. Haggard has been pre-occupied and he made this call and I feel it would not have been right to change it while he was away. And it has been about 2 months since he went inactive. But he is some what back now and it is now BEING LOOKED INTO!

During these two months the BD"s had other things to worry about then this. Case closed. Now I ask you stop the pointing of fingers and the " OH no one cares about what we think" comments.

tank40175
28 May 2009, 11:14am
I don't know why this is such a big issue, I can understand wanting to see the apps, but it really isn't such a big deal. Just like before the final desicion is left up to the higher-ups, not really anything has changed. Just a pretty poll put up for peeps to vote in, but again final desicion rests where it has always been. There has been very useful info from regs, HG's, ect. in the past, and a whole lot more spam and useless posts in apps. I personally like the way it was before better, instead of paying supporter a couple of weeks and applying. I don't feel people are being part of the community long enough, in most cases. But still the majority of admins getting added are doing a good job. Just like before a bad apple gets through, but not anymore than before. But really anyone who has been here long enough knows better than "If you don't pay, you don't matter" attitude. And seeing some of you that have been here that long saying that is really starting to (for the lack of better words) piss me off. That is total BS and you know it when you post it. There are many changes brought about by members, regs, and HG's. This is because it does matter.

Gumpy
28 May 2009, 12:52pm
Lol, sorry about stirring up a QQ storm.

I would probably be better for the community if only admins/supporters could post in the admin apps, but we should at least be able to see them. If someone has a major problem with an applicant, he can send a pm to someone that can post there.

Tcp-Kill
28 May 2009, 12:54pm
Lol, sorry about stirring up a QQ storm.

I would probably be better for the community if only admins/supporters could post in the admin apps, but we should at least be able to see them. If someone has a major problem with an applicant, he can send a pm to someone that can post there.

I'm glad you understand it gumpy, and your right this is exactly what we are trying to do. Hopefully spiked was working on it so tonight it will happen... i glad someone understands.

Dracula
28 May 2009, 12:54pm
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tactical_facepalm.jpg

I give some people here the face palm because they have no patience at all. We said it's being looked into. Take it for what it's worth. There are things going on behind the scene's. And before you say tell us what they are. Well we won't because you don't need to know. Haggard has been pre-occupied and he made this call and I feel it would not have been right to change it while he was away. And it has been about 2 months since he went inactive. But he is some what back now and it is now BEING LOOKED INTO!

During these two months the BD"s had other things to worry about then this. Case closed. Now I ask you stop the pointing of fingers and the " OH no one cares about what we think" comments.

Sadly I have to agree, its common sense that anything this big is going to be disucssed for a while.

Toxin
28 May 2009, 02:44pm
Okay then, I read Jaffa's response and it brought sense back into me. I know now why it took you so long and I would like to apologize for the impatience, I just thought nothing was done the time Caution brought this issue up.

trakaill
29 May 2009, 10:30am
Admin applications have no relevance to who can get the reg/mem tags






This right here is why you should all stop the QQing..
the system works..it doesnt matter if you can see it or not there is always gonna be slips with stupid people...
The whole sneezing panda argument is kinda BS cause at this point we could pull the same excuse for Paladin, matt, riggs and all the other that got admin under the old system.
Some people look good for a lil bit and then get admin then act like jerks..
The jerks from the get go dont get admin

Toxin
1 Jun 2009, 01:59pm
Its public now. Be happy everyone.

Hazardous
1 Jun 2009, 03:03pm
Its public now. Be happy everyone.

We can't vote though?

DoubleSb
1 Jun 2009, 03:12pm
We can't vote though?

I guess cause some of us just say Support and No Support, not really giving any detail on why we don't or for the fact some of us just say 'No support, never seen you.' or 'Support this guy is cool.'

Caution
1 Jun 2009, 03:17pm
I guess cause some of us just say Support and No Support, not really giving any detail on why we don't or for the fact some of us just say 'No support, never seen you.' or 'Support this guy is cool.'

Lol what do you think most of the admins and supps do?

Daze
1 Jun 2009, 03:17pm
This thread was for the ability to see admin applications, you'll have to start a new thread to petition for the ability to post :amuse:

DoubleSb
1 Jun 2009, 03:18pm
Lol what do you think most of the admins and supps do?

At least some of them contribute :amuse:

Caution
1 Jun 2009, 03:25pm
At least some of them contribute :amuse:

Some of the HGs' do as well. I think more of what somebody like Dracula, Hazardous, or Havok (where the fuck did he go?) has to say over a supporter who has been here for 4 days with a post count of 2.

Ganzta
1 Jun 2009, 04:23pm
Some of the HGs' do as well. I think more of what somebody like Dracula, Hazardous, or Havok (where the fuck did he go?) has to say over a supporter who has been here for 4 days with a post count of 2.

cough, cough, i think you're missing somebody

and you need to replace "say" with troll

Huwajux
1 Jun 2009, 04:36pm
Some of the HGs' do as well. I think more of what somebody like Dracula, Hazardous, or Havok (where the fuck did he go?) has to say over a supporter who has been here for 4 days with a post count of 2.
+Rep for the LOL IRL!

Shadowex3
1 Jun 2009, 06:53pm
This thread was for the ability to see admin applications, you'll have to buy the ability to post.

Fixed that for you Daze.

I was going to attempt a witty comment about my respect for you and Steamgamers, and my chances of ever donating to SG but i think it's clear now that you obviously care far far too much about the latter and have about as much respect for any of us as we have for you at this point.

Dracula
1 Jun 2009, 06:54pm
Fixed that for you Daze.

And any chance there ever was of me donating to SG just went down the drain with my respect for you.

Wow your late to loose your respect for him or spend money.

Gumpy
2 Jun 2009, 04:32am
Some of the HGs' do as well. I think more of what somebody like Dracula, Hazardous, or Havok (where the fuck did he go?) has to say over a supporter who has been here for 4 days with a post count of 2.

Havok still comes on the forums, he just doesn't post. I think he has GSCE'S or something.

SpikedRocker
2 Jun 2009, 07:13am
Fixed that for you Daze.

I was going to attempt a witty comment about my respect for you and Steamgamers, and my chances of ever donating to SG but i think it's clear now that you obviously care far far too much about the latter and have about as much respect for any of us as we have for you at this point.

Its not about the money. But when it comes down to it people just spammed the hell out of admin applications so we cut the fat and made the process a bunch simpler and easier for us to filter through. We haven't ruled out that in the future that we may change the ability to post and vote, but for the time being I just made a consession to the people that wanted to at least see the applications and I think generally most of them are happy that it has happened.

It was not Daze's decision to not allow "non-paying" members to not be able to post, it was mine. So any harsh critizism about what was done needs to be directed at me and someone just saying, in a professional manner no less, that we have started to make progress on this situation.

Caution
2 Jun 2009, 07:26am
I wish everyone would stand up for what they believe is right for SG. I hate how I see the majority of people on here (ESPECIALLY admins to gain brownie points) change their views just because a well liked higher up (usually Spiked or Raven) disagrees or takes full responsibility for something some people don't agree with. As long as you're mature and logical, there's nothing to worry about. I don't agree with the current "admin application" situation, but we're obviously making progress in a good direction.

And seriously people, have a backbone.

Dante
2 Jun 2009, 07:26am
If it works, it works...hopefully some forum nubs don't spam it...but..who knows.


<--has a backbone...just very straight >.>

Harbor
2 Jun 2009, 08:12am
^^ pretty sure noobs cant post in the thread

and isnt this thread pointless because its goal was accomplished

in before lock?

Caution
2 Jun 2009, 08:14am
and isnt this thread pointless because its goal was accomplished

No.

Harbor
2 Jun 2009, 08:22am
No.

why

Gumpy
2 Jun 2009, 08:27am
why

Because people are now using this thread to talk about voting in admin apps.

Tcp-Kill
2 Jun 2009, 08:36am
Maybe they actually saw sense?

If you have a problem with the applicant, PM someone.

Shadowex3
2 Jun 2009, 06:19pm
Its not about the money. But when it comes down to it people just spammed the hell out of admin applications so we cut the fat and made the process a bunch simpler and easier for us to filter through. We haven't ruled out that in the future that we may change the ability to post and vote, but for the time being I just made a consession to the people that wanted to at least see the applications and I think generally most of them are happy that it has happened.

It was not Daze's decision to not allow "non-paying" members to not be able to post, it was mine. So any harsh critizism about what was done needs to be directed at me and someone just saying, in a professional manner no less, that we have started to make progress on this situation.

Then in that case I owe daze an apology for taking his post to mean it was his call to allow viewing but not posting AND then post a sarcastic taunt about the continued disenfranchisement of non-paying SG members in what was at one point a a smoothly working and well disciplined community.

If the problem here is spamming and that's not just another diversionary reason then it's even more obvious that reason is just an excuse. People spammed the hell out of admin complaints and ban appeals too but you (SG) didn't shut those down except for paying members, you guys afaik disciplined the people misbehaving on the forums and with minimal effort thus had the problem solve itself.

So if this really IS just about spam the problem isn't that people abused posting privileges, the problem is that nobody bothered to actually do some adminning and hand out a few week long vacations from the forums to set people straight. Furthermore there forums look like a bowl of fruit loops with all the colors and usergroups here, instead of making the member->hg progression automatic why not just bump us all back down to member and then restrict regular and HG to be an actual privileged position like adminship and let THOSE groups post until they misbehave and then get disciplined?

The reason I think a lot of us are having trouble buying any reason but money is because from our point of view we didn't see any constructive attempts at action taken, just BLAM castration until you buy your SGsticles back, and that's basically what it felt like.

Combine that with the number of admin complaints getting rejected rising almost as fast as the number of admins and supporters themselves, and the much more lax attitudes than previous towards admins doing things when contacted by vent/steam or even ON the server or presented with proof here and you've got a perfect storm for a conspiracy theory to brew.

It doesn't matter what the reality is because thirty dozen seperate events have all taken place in such a way that it just looks like a conspiracy and the general attitude of "Whatever, you guys did this to yourselves" and overworkedness of the higher ups coming across as callousness doesn't help.

Dracula
2 Jun 2009, 06:25pm
Then in that case I owe daze an apology for taking his post to mean it was his call to allow viewing but not posting AND then post a sarcastic taunt about the continued disenfranchisement of non-paying SG members in what was at one point a a smoothly working and well disciplined community.

If the problem here is spamming and that's not just another diversionary reason then it's even more obvious that reason is just an excuse. People spammed the hell out of admin complaints and ban appeals too but you (SG) didn't shut those down except for paying members, you guys afaik disciplined the people misbehaving on the forums and with minimal effort thus had the problem solve itself.

So if this really IS just about spam the problem isn't that people abused posting privileges, the problem is that nobody bothered to actually do some adminning and hand out a few week long vacations from the forums to set people straight. Furthermore there forums look like a bowl of fruit loops with all the colors and usergroups here, instead of making the member->hg progression automatic why not just bump us all back down to member and then restrict regular and HG to be an actual privileged position like adminship and let THOSE groups post until they misbehave and then get disciplined?

The reason I think a lot of us are having trouble buying any reason but money is because from our point of view we didn't see any constructive attempts at action taken, just BLAM castration until you buy your SGsticles back, and that's basically what it felt like.

Combine that with the number of admin complaints getting rejected rising almost as fast as the number of admins and supporters themselves, and the much more lax attitudes than previous towards admins doing things when contacted by vent/steam or even ON the server or presented with proof here and you've got a perfect storm for a conspiracy theory to brew.

It doesn't matter what the reality is because thirty dozen seperate events have all taken place in such a way that it just looks like a conspiracy and the general attitude of "Whatever, you guys did this to yourselves" and overworkedness of the higher ups coming across as callousness doesn't help.

I love your posts.

Shadowex3
2 Jun 2009, 06:42pm
Well, it's true. There is no great conspiracy as far as I can tell but they're too overworked to sound any friendlier and it just looks too damn suspicious from the outside.

SpikedRocker
2 Jun 2009, 07:27pm
^^ pretty sure noobs cant post in the thread

and isnt this thread pointless because its goal was accomplished

in before lock?

I think you contradicted yourself there.


Then in that case I owe daze an apology for taking his post to mean it was his call to allow viewing but not posting AND then post a sarcastic taunt about the continued disenfranchisement of non-paying SG members in what was at one point a a smoothly working and well disciplined community.

Thank you.


If the problem here is spamming and that's not just another diversionary reason then it's even more obvious that reason is just an excuse. People spammed the hell out of admin complaints and ban appeals too but you (SG) didn't shut those down except for paying members, you guys afaik disciplined the people misbehaving on the forums and with minimal effort thus had the problem solve itself.

The admin complaints and appeal spam was mainly admins, and it looked very unprofessional. Thats why we slammed down on it. And with misbehaving on forums, that is just taking out the trash but that still occurs.



So if this really IS just about spam the problem isn't that people abused posting privileges, the problem is that nobody bothered to actually do some adminning and hand out a few week long vacations from the forums to set people straight. Furthermore there forums look like a bowl of fruit loops with all the colors and usergroups here, instead of making the member->hg progression automatic why not just bump us all back down to member and then restrict regular and HG to be an actual privileged position like adminship and let THOSE groups post until they misbehave and then get disciplined?

We really do not wish to forum ban people for any reason, its the last thing we'd like to do. If we do allow posting on the applications, your soultion of demotion when they spam will probably be the action we do take. At this point, we are taking baby steps with this process. As I stated we are not ruling out opening the applications to posts. We are only working one step at a time.



The reason I think a lot of us are having trouble buying any reason but money is because from our point of view we didn't see any constructive attempts at action taken, just BLAM castration until you buy your SGsticles back, and that's basically what it felt like.


The reason you don't see the constructive attempts is because we do not wish to make promises or statements that will not be upheld. Money is not an issue in this community. We are financially stable. This was talked about amungst the higher ups for a few days of what we'd like to do about this particular situation. Then it took myself about a week or so of figure out how to go about making our decision to come to light. Just because you do not see anything going on, we are always working harder to make this place better. Some times things pop in that get in the way of things happening. And I will admit, in this particular instance, the Killing Floor servers took precedence over this. Myself and the other BD's were working around the clock to launch our servers when this issue started up.



Combine that with the number of admin complaints getting rejected rising almost as fast as the number of admins and supporters themselves, and the much more lax attitudes than previous towards admins doing things when contacted by vent/steam or even ON the server or presented with proof here and you've got a perfect storm for a conspiracy theory to brew.

It doesn't matter what the reality is because thirty dozen seperate events have all taken place in such a way that it just looks like a conspiracy and the general attitude of "Whatever, you guys did this to yourselves" and overworkedness of the higher ups coming across as callousness doesn't help.

As for the admin complaints on the rise, I believe they were delt with appropriately and taken care of in the same way. There are always grumblings about this. IMO, I think older admins need to step up and help guide these newer admins to help mold them a bit better. No admin is perfect when they are new, but with the experienced people helping them this should cut down on several problems.

If admins are on when trouble is going down on a server, please take a demo of it and we can see what happened. I can understand where some admins might not see everything and stuff but seeing how you see it might help us figure that problem out.

As far as the attitude you pointed out, we don't want to appear short tempered with you guys on stuff. Generally, we try to keep things short and sweet and not over explain things but as seeing you've made the effort yourself to point out these things I will go ahead and take the time to try to explain things the best I can.

Overall, with the admin process, its always been a work-in-progress and changing. This is another one of those changes we are making. ATM, we'd like to let things go and see how this goes for a few applications. If any person who cannot post in admin application has any viable information in any application please send the BD's a PM with what you have to say. This will help us decide if we need to change things. Its been oversaid myself, PM's have power, and we read them and will use any information we recieved.

Caution
2 Jun 2009, 08:24pm
IMO, I think older admins need to step up and help guide these newer admins to help mold them a bit better.

I agree with this a lot. However, quite a few of the newer admins (by newer I mean within about 3-4 months or so) won't take advice on what some of us have to say. I see this especially with slapping / freezing / teleporting. Personally, I don't give a shit as long as it doesn't affect anybody and their game play and they're not complaining...so I'm not going to complain about them (usually). But when I try and warn them about possibly getting into trouble over it, from some I get nothing but an attitude and rudeness.

Harbor
2 Jun 2009, 09:28pm
I agree with this a lot. However, quite a few of the newer admins (by newer I mean within about 3-4 months or so) won't take advice on what some of us have to say. I see this especially with slapping / freezing / teleporting. Personally, I don't give a shit as long as it doesn't affect anybody and their game play and they're not complaining...so I'm not going to complain about them (usually). But when I try and warn them about possibly getting into trouble over it, from some I get nothing but an attitude and rudeness.

or making the training program MANDATORY i think everyadmin should recieve training, i mean you mite learn things you didnt know or thought you could do but cant, a chance to learn is never bad

Caution
2 Jun 2009, 09:31pm
or making the training program MANDATORY i think everyadmin should recieve training, i mean you mite learn things you didnt know or thought you could do but cant, a chance to learn is never bad

I don't think it should be mandatory. I mean, look at the current admins, the majority are damn good and they didn't go through "admin training", it was just on the experiences they had and the questions they asked. There's no need to really start enforcing it.

Harbor
2 Jun 2009, 09:34pm
I don't think it should be mandatory. I mean, look at the current admins, the majority are damn good and they didn't go through "admin training", it was just on the experiences they had and the questions they asked. There's no need to really start enforcing it.

yah but maybe atleast if you havent had prior admin usage (me) you should be required

Caution
2 Jun 2009, 10:05pm
yah but maybe atleast if you havent had prior admin usage (me) you should be required

I had no prior admin usage, and I consider myself to be a good admin now. Sure, it was a rocky road at first, but you get the hang of it.

SpikedRocker
3 Jun 2009, 06:43am
I as sure hell didn't have any prior experience but I learned from a few of the best admins this place ever saw, Suri, Raven, Super Nublet, Saxe and hell I'll even say I picked up a few things from Havok and Solanum when they were admins. I'm not about to force people to go through a training, when it probably will not matter and will most likely put off most people. The key here is people being that mentor to newer admins.

Caution, I definatly can understand how some of these people won't listen to people if they've been here longer than a month. I had a talk with a few of the AO's and I think if these people won't listen to you, they better listen to me or another BD. We won't overstep the AO's or even the other Admins in helping each other out, but in extreme situations we can and will say something and if they don't like it I can jigglebell them and tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out. I'd say that would be an extremely rare thing if a BD has to talk to an admin about how they do stuff but if it needs to be done, I have no problem stepping in.