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Oak
26 Oct 2007, 11:45am
Well, long story short, the gun thread got locked unfortunately, so I felt it would be necessary to keep the fire going so to speak (but being diplomatic as always, I'll write about a new topic rather than continue the one the Admin locked for whatever reason).


So, in a nutshell, my views on abortion are this:
-Any kind of abortion is murder.
-Anyone who has had an abortion should be executed.
- Any "doctor" who performs, or nurses who aid in performing abortions should be executed slow and painfully.
- Anyone who approves of abortion should be sterilized and beaten like a baby seal with a baseball bat full of nails, then dipped in a vat of holy water (rubbing alcohol).

The fact that abortion is murder is, in my view, so painfully obvious that trying to argue otherwise is like claiming the sky some alternate color rather than blue (I regret using that analogy because I know someone will have the uncontrollable urge to jot down some patronizing remark about what and why the sky is in scientific detail, but save space in your post, because I'm well aware already. I simply needed to summarize the strength of my opinion on that in terms everyone was more likely to comprehend, so I opted for a very simplistic approach.)

Many people try to circumvent the idea of abortion being murder by making the utterly nonsensical claim that before a certain stage of growth, it is technically not a human, and has no rights. The important thing is: that fertilized egg would have grown into a fetus, and eventually a person. By killing the embryo, you are killing the person it would have become, and the eventual offspring they would have possibly produced.

The only real problem with that logic is, that by the same reasoning, any type of birth control is murder, since it is possible the woman would have been impregnated and borne a child. Does the existence of that possibility and its prevention dictate murder? For me that is more of a gray area, especially since I have protected sex regularly. So my definition is more of once the egg
is fertilized, it counts as murder.



I look forward to the opinions and viewpoints the rest of you have on this issue, however, lets try to keep it as a civil exchange of ideas. If you disagree with someone else, thats fine, but it isn't always necessary to try and convert that person to your beliefs. If you absolutely have to, it is infinitely more polite to attack the idea rather than the person. Since I have no authority, this is merely a humble request, which you may ignore completely if you prefer.

Haggard
26 Oct 2007, 12:15pm
I am against abortion as well. If you don’t want the responsibilities of a child then give it up for adoption because if you are even considering abortion then I can already tell you "you will be an unfit parent for that child". There are lots of people out there who would love to adopt a child.

Here's an idea, if you feel the need to commit abortion then you shouldn't be allowed later in life to have a child. Since most people who get abortions are stupid fucking kids who don’t know what safe sex is then we should require that their tubes be tied during the abortion surgery to make sure they don’t have to commit any more "legal murders." Never gonna happen but a great idea in my mind.

*I’m sure there are a few logical reasons an abortion must be committed such as medical complication where the mother could die if following through with birth.

*I’m sure there are some pro-choice people on here but I bet you also see it as a cowardly act and should choose adoption over abortion.

PS: I was raising 2 kids at the age of 20 <<<<<<<<<<<<< not a coward.

Repeat
26 Oct 2007, 12:27pm
[QUOTE=Oak;14931]


So, in a nutshell, my views on abortion are this:
-Any kind of abortion is murder.
-Anyone who has had an abortion should be executed.
- Any "doctor" who performs, or nurses who aid in performing abortions should be executed slow and painfully.
- Anyone who approves of abortion should be sterilized and beaten like a baby seal with a baseball bat full of nails, then dipped in a vat of holy water (rubbing alcohol).

QUOTE]

That's a little heavy, man.

I agree with you in regards to it being murder, though. I believe once that egg is fertilized, it's a kid plain and simple. I think the grey area for me though is rape/incest area though. Both are extremely terrible things to happen to a woman, and should she be punished for something that someone did to her, without her consent? Then again, should the helpless baby be punished? It's a thing that I go around and around with, and I don't know. If you ban abortion, except for those exceptions, then I think women would just say they got raped. Or try to do something to themselves to get it out. There will always be some rogue black market abortion doctor to do that sorta stuff if you look hard enough. It's an extremely complicated issue.

I think a good solution would be banning abortion plain and simple, unless the baby is going to kill the mother. Then the baby could be put up for adoption. There are plenty of families out there that want kids but can't have them.

Slavic
26 Oct 2007, 12:32pm
I guess I could be considered one of those stupid fucking kids, because I made the mistake of having sex unprotected. But long story short my ex girlfriend now is 4 month pregnant with my child : X.

I am against abortions myself, but the situation I am in has changed that slightly because of all the emotional and spiritual trauma I've been going through during the last through months.

The girl who carries my baby we found out has a genetic desiese. The doctors told us that she shouldn't of been able to get pregnant in the first place because her body isn't developed all the way for her to carry a child. (she is 18, so its not an age factor, its just her body). The doctors told us that the baby WILL die, they believe it so much that they are almost 100% certain.

As the baby gets bigger it will require more nutrients as a we all know, but my ex's condition means that she can't support the baby's need for nutrients. She's been sick for 2 months now because the baby is slowly killing her, and the baby itself is also suffocating slowly. As she gets closer to labor her chances of dieing are increasing. If she makes it up to the point of actual point, she is almost certain to die along with the baby.

I've been supporting the child and my ex ever since she got pregnant, although we arn't together. Ever dollar I earn goes toward her getting blood tests and doctor visits. There is only so much an 18 year old student can do.

The abortion is scheduled for this wed. but we have yet to come up with the money for the operation. We need $1800 and we are uninsured. I fear for her life.

Red
26 Oct 2007, 12:36pm
I was actually being facetious when suggesting abortion as a new topic but am pleased to see others who think likewise on this.

edit: gun thread unlocked, though I have said all I will on it.

Oak
26 Oct 2007, 12:48pm
I was partially kidding with my little list there, the rubbing alcohol reference was meant as an offhanded remark simply because its a very serious topic, for me anyway. Though now, I regret doing so with the new turn this has taken.

I hadn't considered the ultra rare cases like rape and dangerous genetic conditions, but my overall view remains the same on the topic. Yes, there are times when it is slightly more acceptable.

I can hopefully be as delicate as possible with this, avoid sounding calloused or arrogant, and still get my honest opinions across.

If the child were to die regardless, or the percent chance of him not surviving birth were very high, it would make rational sense to try to save one life rather than run the risk of losing two lives.

But then again, if someone who will die within a short amount of time is killed, is it still murder? If someone with a terminal illness is murdered, does it still count?

The only viable reason for murder is to save an innocent life. It may be murder, but it also prevents life from being taken.

I wouldn't handle the situation any differently, nor have I been unlucky enough to experience something of that nature. I'm not religious, so I can't say any prayers for you, but I will keep you and your loved ones in my thoughts in hopes of a positive outcome for you.

Haggard
26 Oct 2007, 12:58pm
I guess I could be considered one of those stupid fucking kids, because I made the mistake of having sex unprotected. But long story short my ex girlfriend now is 4 month pregnant with my child : X.



Maybe I should have changed my wording but I do have respect for people who fuck up and get pregnant but go through with raising the child and the men who stick by there side. I was more talking about the kids who have unprotect sex but have no plan of ever raising the kid. I was 19 when my wife got pregnant. I didnt plan to get her pregnant but since I took that chance I knew it could happen and was ready to be a great parent. Maybe it just comes down to maturity and responsibility for ones actions.

I am glad I had kids young and worked through all the hard times at once because now I got it alot easier and will still be young when my kids go off to college, ima party then :-)

jeN
26 Oct 2007, 01:52pm
Maybe I should have changed my wording but I do have respect for people who fuck up and get pregnant but go through with raising the child and the men who stick by there side. I was more talking about the kids who have unprotect sex but have no plan of ever raising the kid. I was 19 when my wife got pregnant. I didnt plan to get her pregnant but since I took that chance I knew it could happen and was ready to be a great parent. Maybe it just comes down to maturity and responsibility for ones actions.

I am glad I had kids young and worked through all the hard times at once because now I got it alot easier and will still be young when my kids go off to college, ima party then :-)

Would you rather some immature prat barely take care of their baby instead of abortion? Some people don't accept adoption or even think of it. I know several people who have gotten pregnant young, not one of them ever thought of adoption. Whether stupidity or whatever the case.

I don't agree or disagree with abortion as its a case by case thing. I think there's exceptions to everything in life, and abortion is one of those that can't be grouped under murdering treacherous whores, or godsends. There's cases where it's no other option, and where the person having the abortion is a complete idiot since it's their 15th abortion already.

Repeat; rape is a very emotional daunting thing for anyone to experience, though it's generally females. But do you honestly think that the female should be stuck carrying around a baby when shes already an emotional wreck? Most rapes are violent things to begin with that damage the victim both mentally and physically. The mental repercussion's are always there.. Should she keep the baby and give it up for adoption? Again, case by case; some woman can, some can't. I honestly can't describe how rape makes you feel and the affects it has on just normal day to day life. The idea of forcing or even thinking a female can have that mans baby after is unimaginable to me. None of you will ever have to go through something like that and good for you but don't sit and act like you know how it would feel.

--I'm really sick atm and can't think; sorry if I used the wrong words.. completely forgot words etc.

LitKey
26 Oct 2007, 04:14pm
Repeat; rape is a very emotional daunting thing for anyone to experience, though it's generally females. But do you honestly think that the female should be stuck carrying around a baby when shes already an emotional wreck? Most rapes are violent things to begin with that damage the victim both mentally and physically. The mental repercussion's are always there.. Should she keep the baby and give it up for adoption? Again, case by case; some woman can, some can't. I honestly can't describe how rape makes you feel and the affects it has on just normal day to day life. The idea of forcing or even thinking a female can have that mans baby after is unimaginable to me. None of you will ever have to go through something like that and good for you but don't sit and act like you know how it would feel.

The problem with that thinking is that the person from the egg fertilized by the man's sperm is not the same person as the man who raped the woman; it is a new person who is completely innocent - so that baby should be given up for adoption.

Repeat
26 Oct 2007, 04:32pm
Repeat; rape is a very emotional daunting thing for anyone to experience, though it's generally females. But do you honestly think that the female should be stuck carrying around a baby when shes already an emotional wreck? Most rapes are violent things to begin with that damage the victim both mentally and physically. The mental repercussion's are always there.. Should she keep the baby and give it up for adoption? Again, case by case; some woman can, some can't. I honestly can't describe how rape makes you feel and the affects it has on just normal day to day life. The idea of forcing or even thinking a female can have that mans baby after is unimaginable to me. None of you will ever have to go through something like that and good for you but don't sit and act like you know how it would feel.

--I'm really sick atm and can't think; sorry if I used the wrong words.. completely forgot words etc.

I don't claim I know how it would feel, but someone VERY close to me was raped, so I might have more of an idea than others. I also wrote addressed the topic of the woman being punished for something that wasn't her fault.

jeN
26 Oct 2007, 05:41pm
I don't claim I know how it would feel, but someone VERY close to me was raped, so I might have more of an idea than others. I also wrote addressed the topic of the woman being punished for something that wasn't her fault.

Kay. :P I just know that a lot of men, no offense, try to assume they know what the situation would be like and it drives me absolutely crazy.

That's a major reason why I think it should be the womans choice, to an extent. If some whore is just going and boinking everything in site, then well shes gross but LEARN TO USE PROTECTION.


The problem with that thinking is that the person from the egg fertilized by the man's sperm is not the same person as the man who raped the woman; it is a new person who is completely innocent - so that baby should be given up for adoption.

Pregnancy isn't just some easy thing to go through.. 9 months of sickness, bloated, emotional wreck, physical pain.. The woman should do whatever she damn well pleases considering what just happened to her rather than having to continue into 9 months of hell after. Yes, I understand why you think that, but again you're a male. You wont ever experience pregnancy or pregnancy caused by rape. It isn't just as easy as "oh well, its an innocent being." There's honestly no way I can put into words how to describe how it feels.

Repeat
26 Oct 2007, 10:11pm
That's a major reason why I think it should be the womans choice, to an extent. If some whore is just going and boinking everything in site, then well shes gross but LEARN TO USE PROTECTION.





Amen to that.

Oak
27 Oct 2007, 04:07am
Kay. :P I just know that a lot of men, no offense, try to assume they know what the situation would be like and it drives me absolutely crazy.

You don't have to experience something first hand to understand how it works, and I don't remember a single male here making such an assumption.




Pregnancy isn't just some easy thing to go through.. 9 months of sickness, bloated, emotional wreck, physical pain.. The woman should do whatever she damn well pleases considering what just happened to her rather than having to continue into 9 months of hell after. Yes, I understand why you think that, but again you're a male. You wont ever experience pregnancy or pregnancy caused by rape. It isn't just as easy as "oh well, its an innocent being." There's honestly no way I can put into words how to describe how it feels.

It varies from person to person depending on the degree of selfishness or moral fortitude, but I actually know a woman who was raped, and then suffered through the 9 months of pain and agony, and raised the child single handedly. It just comes down to what kind of person you are, but abortion is always murder, plain and simple. Some have the willpower to do whats right, others are too weak or self centered. I can see certain exceptions where it may have to be done, but rape isn't one of them. Like Litkey said, the child is completely innocent. How many women per year endure childbirth, in many instances without painkillers and modern medical comforts?

Jesstilence
27 Oct 2007, 09:50am
I'm not going to touch on this much because most people don't like the way I think and I don't want you guys to think differently of me. All I'm going to say is that I don't want kids and I don't think other people should be having children right now so abortion is a persons choice.

Oak
27 Oct 2007, 11:08am
I'm not going to touch on this much because most people don't like the way I think and I don't want you guys to think differently of me. All I'm going to say is that I don't want kids and I don't think other people should be having children right now so abortion is a persons choice.

Why even bother forming individualistic opinions if you're too concerned over what other people might think to be open about them? It may be nice to be liked, but not if you're only conforming to what you think other people want. Its better to be true to yourself and possibly have a few people dislike you rather than live a lie. Hopefully you will give us something a little more in-depth, I am genuinely curious to know what your opinions on it are.





I don't think other people should be having children right now

Thats extremely vague, but I'll assume your loosely referring to overpopulation to some extent.

Repeat
27 Oct 2007, 11:49am
Has anyone ever read Jonathon Swift's "A Modest Proposal"? I mean, with all the hungry people in the world...