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XeNo
13 Apr 2009, 05:15am
So, hopefully I'll get a BD or higher to take a look at this later on when/if it gets good results. (Nice amount of votes)

First off (Keep this in mind):

The way zombie mod is set up, the starter zombie had 2x hp of every other zombie and this cannot be changed. Our current Starter Zombie hp is 5k, thus all zombies he infects has 2.5k hp.

Second off:

The reason I'm making this poll is due to multiple people feeling zombie hp is way too low, and encourages point whores instead of actual escaping/holding off. As well as promotes Zombies to hide forever just so they don't die within a few seconds of jumping into a horde of humans. As well as some of the newer maps coming out for ZE include items or weapons (Even the boatescape5 Pods could be put into this category) cause quite a lot of damage as more and more Zombie Mod servers are unlimited ammo or their Zombie HP is increased compared to ours. (Moria's Saruman staff now does about 2.3k damage to our 2.5k hp zombies...Basically kills them in a mass pile)


So with those in mind, the three options I can think of that will hopefully improve gameplay and overall teamwork, while still keeping those who just want to kill zombies, actually able to still kill zombies with a bit of work are as follows:

12k hp: Starter zombie
6k hp: Every other zombie

With this set up, every zombie will have even more hp than what our starter zombie currently has, and starter will basically be a beast. 12khp is over double what it had before, and even before with 10 people bunching up on him it took a little while to kill him. (If there wasn't many headshots) Granted, Zombies will still die as the map progresses to the end where all humans bunch up to kill them, but they will have a significantly increased survival rate.

10k hp: Starter Zombie
5k hp: Every other

Same as above pretty much, just 1k/2k hp difference which could mean a lot to most people.


And I'm going to put up this third one just cause some people have asked ZE to be about escaping, not point whoring. Those of you that want the zombies to just live for nearly ever, so there's a huge swarm at the end of the maps that just won't ever seem to die, where humans are left screaming that they have to reload and to cover them.

Granted, this will probably make point scorers that like to show how they're at the top of the teams frown and not want to play, or make Zombies completely over powered...It's something we can always fix, and something that we might as well try while we're at it.

It's been a long time since our Zombies servers have had any real changes to it other than maps, so never know what might make the servers better.

25k hp: Starter zombie (This dude will probably never die, lol.)
12.5k hp: Every other zombie (Over double what our starter zombie has currently)

Smurftan
13 Apr 2009, 05:27am
Correct me if im wrong but didnt the starter zombie use to have 12k? If so then yea bring back 12k/6k

Spjerre
13 Apr 2009, 06:07am
I agree with you XeNo. Now days escape is about killing zombie. I think 12k/6k is a good setup. It's not to much and not to low.

Svendy
13 Apr 2009, 06:28am
bring back the high HP!! 12/6k

Shadowex3
13 Apr 2009, 03:06pm
nd even before with 10 people bunching up on him it took a little while to kill him. (If there wasn't many headshots)

Xeno, 10 people with pistols will do 9,000 damage in one mag if the shoot the zombie in the FOOT. Furthermore have you given thought to what Regen will be set at? Purely for an example: Even a 2.5K hp zombie can be a beast if he regenerates 150HP every half second because then the humans need to do 300 damage every second just to match the regen rate.

If we're going to go for 12K-6K and keep the infinite-burnings for the nades I'd say regen should be about 150hp each second so it takes a full 40 seconds for their health to grow all the way back. That'd help the 6ks survive SST, Extinction and the like and on maps like ATIX's and blackmesa they could hide briefly to regen health from getting shot by ~30 humans and then bumrush them again in a minute.

Remember, most ZM maps are only 5min long at most so a 40 second regen time is still really damn long since they'd only be able to do it at most 4 times in a map.

XeNo
13 Apr 2009, 11:13pm
Xeno, 10 people with pistols will do 9,000 damage in one mag if the shoot the zombie in the FOOT. Furthermore have you given thought to what Regen will be set at? Purely for an example: Even a 2.5K hp zombie can be a beast if he regenerates 150HP every half second because then the humans need to do 300 damage every second just to match the regen rate.

If we're going to go for 12K-6K and keep the infinite-burnings for the nades I'd say regen should be about 150hp each second so it takes a full 40 seconds for their health to grow all the way back. That'd help the 6ks survive SST, Extinction and the like and on maps like ATIX's and blackmesa they could hide briefly to regen health from getting shot by ~30 humans and then bumrush them again in a minute.

Remember, most ZM maps are only 5min long at most so a 40 second regen time is still really damn long since they'd only be able to do it at most 4 times in a map.
We can work on one thing at a time shadow, read your PM's.

Hopefully increasing their hp can be just the first change, regen next if really needed, and so on and so forth.


And I'm not sure what pistols you're firing with, but generally I miss 4bullets or so of a deagle if I'm trying to shoot the foot, and foot shots with a deagle does like 20 damage. Times it by 7 it's 140, times it by 10, it's 1,400. Honestly I'm not sure you play enough, but you don't hit every shot with a pistol and foot shots aren't enough to kill a zombie.

Acessed
14 Apr 2009, 12:51am
12k/6k Would be nice to be honest, like you said i'm one of those people that likes it when theres few humans left at the end and were all left screaming and running for our lives cause people are too scared to hold some point off xD

Killer
14 Apr 2009, 01:40am
;184738']Correct me if im wrong but didnt the starter zombie use to have 12k? If so then yea bring back 12k/6k

:clap: Yeah especially if we dont have unlimited ammo, its really hard to take down a zombie if your on your own.

SATAN
14 Apr 2009, 01:43am
Xeno, 10 people with pistols will do 9,000 damage in one mag if the shoot the zombie in the FOOT. Furthermore have you given thought to what Regen will be set at? Purely for an example: Even a 2.5K hp zombie can be a beast if he regenerates 150HP every half second because then the humans need to do 300 damage every second just to match the regen rate.

If we're going to go for 12K-6K and keep the infinite-burnings for the nades I'd say regen should be about 150hp each second so it takes a full 40 seconds for their health to grow all the way back. That'd help the 6ks survive SST, Extinction and the like and on maps like ATIX's and blackmesa they could hide briefly to regen health from getting shot by ~30 humans and then bumrush them again in a minute.

Remember, most ZM maps are only 5min long at most so a 40 second regen time is still really damn long since they'd only be able to do it at most 4 times in a map.

I just want to say the same thing xeno said, most average players miss more than half of their shots, even if you are good missing only 25% is pretty good. Dont tell me you havent seen those people firing an entire M16 mag and hitting the person only 4 times.

tank40175
14 Apr 2009, 05:41am
Bring back Napalm!! And then we don't have to have zombie hunts in escape! =p

XeNo
14 Apr 2009, 05:45am
Bring back Napalm!! And then we don't have to have zombie hunts in escape! =p
....What?

This has basically nothing to do with zombie hunts.

It's mostly about zombies being too easy to kill at hold spots and not surviving the 'escape'.

imkrazie
15 Apr 2009, 02:26pm
I don't think zombie HP is a problem in the VIP server (can't speak for escape I because I never play in there). I compiled a really quick unscientific report on 3 maps (sewer escape_v7, sst, and atix_helicopter) over the course of 34 rounds.

During the 11 rounds of sewer escape, humans lost 9 times while winning only twice (first zombie was killed and the other was an afk zombie). During the 9 round losing streak, the humans never killed a zombie...not one.

SST was up next and I recorded stats for all 11 rounds we played. Humans lost 7 times, an average of 1.5 zombies were killed in each losing round (only 3 rounds had zombie kills though). Humans won 2 times and killed 12 zombies (2 rounds were won due to an afk zombie and those kills have been removed from the statistic). Only once did humans kill all the zombies to win, resulting in 7 killed zombies (it was 7 zombies vs 15 humans while humans held the base).

After SST was rtv'd, we went to atix_helicopter and I recorded 12 rounds of data. Humans lost 9 rounds resulting in a total of 25 zombie kills. The humans killed 16 total zombies in the 3 rounds they won. The humans never killed all the zombies to win, instead the VIP was able to escape.

With all this in mind, I don't see any reason to change the zombie HP on the VIP ESCAPE server. The server already has the para, awp, and scout disabled (thankfully). Humans were only able to win 16% of the time (without an afk zombie) on one hard map (sewer) and two maps believed to be human sided (sst and helicopter).The lack of necessity to change the zombie hp in the VIP server is due to the fact that the zombies only need to be kill the VIP to win. The humans lost 26 times because of the VIP being killed ( 2 other loses came from the zombies escaping and the VIP leaving during a round forcing the zombies to kill all the humans). I believe that this goes to show that the VIP does not need a zombie hp buff.


P.S. When I say zombie kills I mean zombies who were killed by humans.

Shadowex3
24 Apr 2009, 06:48pm
There is however a drastic need to change the HP in the regular escape server, Everyone except ONE PERSON so far has voted that they want higher HP with the vast majority calling for 6K with a 12K starter.

I just left escape1 after watching something close to 30 zombies get killed across the rounds.

mr_cap
26 Apr 2009, 04:42pm
i agree with the 12k starter and and 6k everyone else. zombie is getting much more easier with lower health on the zombies. especially in maps with wide open spaces like sst, if the zombie spawns a little away from humans, the humans can herd that zombie into a corner and rape him hard. i think if the health was a little higher than it would be much more fun.

Shadowex3
9 May 2009, 09:02am
It's been a month, ~30 people have voted for an increase with 23 of those being for 6k (19) or higher (4) HP.

I told people a month ago that the admins had FINALLY put up a poll about raising zombie HP and it hasn't happened yet, people are ready to crucify me by association and you guys for not raising it yet. I actually just left another clusterfuck of SST rounds to come bother you guys about this again just so everyone would calm down about it.

The only reason there aren't more threads about this is because most people I just talked to, for some reasons genuinely beyond me since he started this poll, are pretty sure that Xeno will get very angry with them if they don't keep quiet about zombie HP.

Is there some supporter only forum where all the paying customers have their own list of demands and one of them is to keep zombie HP low on it? Napalm's back and staying pretty populated, that's where zombie hunting belongs. The rest of us, except whatever 2 people voted no on this poll, are here to Run Bitch Run.

Haggard
9 May 2009, 09:11am
I will increase the health to 6/3K. Lets take baby steps and see what happens.

Shadowex3
9 May 2009, 09:51am
Sounds like a plan, although I can't see the extra 500hp making too much of a difference to begin with. At roughly 8-10 months for a 500hp increase it should only take another 2-3 years to get the zombies back up to their previous durability.

What about regen and multi-burn? Are those settings deliberate or did it just glitch?

[edit]

Also, HOLY JEEBUS HES ALIVE!

ggzz123
12 May 2009, 12:33pm
the zombies should have more hp. now the humans can easily kill the zombies. its not about escaping anymore :sad2:

Shadowex3
12 May 2009, 11:06pm
what is with people with the unpronounceable names? Everytime I talk to one of you guys on voicecomm ingame I feel like I'm speaking phnobic.

Jazz
12 May 2009, 11:21pm
I see humans get 50 kills on ATIX, we need to increase health. Of course i do get 50 kills, but then again I care fr newbs.

Simon [I R JAWZ]
13 May 2009, 04:16am
12/6 is a good starting point. we could try, and if it dosent work that good, we could lower it again`?

Shadowex3
25 May 2009, 01:04am
Lower it? This sums up the point of view of virtually everyone whose been here since before the HP was lowered the first time:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5949/zeblackmesaescapefinal0.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zeblackmesaescapefinal0.jpg)

Ms. Blargh
25 May 2009, 01:36pm
Yah I also agree that it needs to be increased. So people will be forced to work together, and there wont be so many fail zombies on maps like SST and Atix.

Elleon
26 May 2009, 03:27pm
Yah I also agree that it needs to be increased. So people will be forced to work together, and there wont be so many fail zombies on maps like SST and Atix.

Ms. Blargh speaks the truth!

During the 12k I was able to kite 2 zombies around the map and kill them off, now I can do 4-5 easy; this in my opinion, is a bit ridiculous. Working together is really the only way to win these maps, so we should be going full scale.

I am sure a few issues put this hp cut into effect, but summer is comming along and more players will be active, better players returning as well. These kids will have nothing to do but sit at the computer screens and find every possible angle to give them an edge, and I believe a challenge will be in order.

Chaos
10 Jun 2009, 06:39pm
I say ^ the health!

chaoslee12
10 Jun 2009, 07:31pm
needs more health

Ulrich
10 Jun 2009, 08:48pm
I like the way it is, but 12/6 wouldnt hurt, so I'd say either same or that.

Sparta
11 Jun 2009, 12:41pm
I like the way it is...i mean if it goes up..it goes up....but I think it is good where it is at.

raven maniac
14 Jun 2009, 03:11pm
BUMP.

I think this needs to be put in effect.

Shadowex3
14 Jun 2009, 03:52pm
Talk to haggard, he apparently decided going from ~2.5 to 3k was enough for now as part of raising it in "baby steps".

Huwajux
15 Jun 2009, 11:30am
BUMP.

I think this needs to be put in effect.
Who on Earth is the escape AO?

Shadowex3
15 Jun 2009, 12:27pm
According to the Para thread Raven's the BoD in charge of it, A while ago Jaffa told me Venemous Fate was in charge of all the Escape servers but the AOs could've swapped around since then

raven maniac
15 Jun 2009, 12:33pm
According to the Para thread Raven's the BoD in charge of it, A while ago Jaffa told me Venemous Fate was in charge of all the Escape servers but the AOs could've swapped around since then

Nope, I'm not in charge of it but since no one was doing anything to it I decided to help out.

Jazz
15 Jun 2009, 12:34pm
Who on Earth is the escape AO?

Venomous, lol. He's ancient.

Shadowex3
15 Jun 2009, 05:00pm
Nope, I'm not in charge of it but since no one was doing anything to it I decided to help out.

Appreciated.

Chobber
15 Jun 2009, 05:16pm
Shadowex - is ANYTHING about the escape server ever just merely OKAY to you???

You want the para's restricted, you want the health boosted .. What will the next be? Freezing the humans for 5 seconds at zombie spawn so it has a chance to get some kills??

The zombies wins most of the time (when I play, at least!), so whats the fuzz of making it harder for the humans?? Or do you just tend to fail as a zombie??

I say we boost the z-hp as well, but keep the para and it will be balanced fairly well, I feel...

Ms. Blargh
15 Jun 2009, 05:24pm
well the para should be restricted if zombies health stays at what it is.

Chobber
16 Jun 2009, 04:59pm
well the para should be restricted if zombies health stays at what it is.

Not restricted - limited.. And that is if it stays at its current levels.. But lets boost the hp and just keep the paras as they've always been..

Shadowex3
16 Jun 2009, 05:22pm
Chobber if you'd read any of these threads instead of just trolling people for lulz you'd have noticed one of the many instances where someone whose been around a while points out that there is no arguing against the proposed changes because the proposed change is a return to zombiemurder's original settings! The same settings that had the servers full almost 24/7, go ask super nublet or any of the other oldtimers yourself if you don't believe me.

We've got a napalm server. Go there if you want your para and low HP zombies for hunting. The rest of us don't like the low HP zombies, and we haven't liked them for a long time.

raven maniac
16 Jun 2009, 05:33pm
Chobber if you'd read any of these threads instead of just trolling people for lulz you'd have noticed one of the many instances where someone whose been around a while points out that there is no arguing against the proposed changes because the proposed change is a return to zombiemurder's original settings! The same settings that had the servers full almost 24/7, go ask super nublet or any of the other oldtimers yourself if you don't believe me.

We've got a napalm server. Go there if you want your para and low HP zombies for hunting. The rest of us don't like the low HP zombies, and we haven't liked them for a long time.

hah....I will resist arguing with this statement, funny though. xD

Shadowex3
16 Jun 2009, 06:05pm
There's a hidden part of my signature that's a disclaimer, it says "All statements are made with uncommon sense".

Chobber
17 Jun 2009, 01:08am
Chobber if you'd read any of these threads instead of just trolling people for lulz you'd have noticed one of the many instances where someone whose been around a while points out that there is no arguing against the proposed changes because the proposed change is a return to zombiemurder's original settings! The same settings that had the servers full almost 24/7, go ask super nublet or any of the other oldtimers yourself if you don't believe me.

We've got a napalm server. Go there if you want your para and low HP zombies for hunting. The rest of us don't like the low HP zombies, and we haven't liked them for a long time.

I'm not just running around and writing all of this for fun .. Im doing it because I cant see any reasonable sense in whatever it is you say about the settings to the server..

I don't care whether people wants to argue towards changes to the settings we had before or whatever, let them do that - it's called freedom of speech.. Same reason that I'm reading your posts..
You're living in a bubble .. Yeh, ZM was great but SG is EVEN MIGHTIER!! And don't talk to me as if I've just come around here - I was here before we turned to SG.. OH, you've been here longer?? Well have a cookie - I don't care, I can still say what I want about the settings and that is that it shouldn't be easier for the zombies..

Oh, you read that?


We've got a napalm server. Go there if you want your para and low HP zombies for hunting. The rest of us don't like the low HP zombies, and we haven't liked them for a long time.

Yeh, I like high-hp zombies as well ... But you need something to kill them with ... And I don't need to sit in a corner and camp to kill a zombie .. Having a schedule + a zombie in your ass gives me a better kick than just sitting around and staring untill you can hold the fire-button..

Shadowex3
17 Jun 2009, 08:21am
Are you on drugs? You're not even making any sense anymore.

Chobber
17 Jun 2009, 02:52pm
Tell me what part that isnt making any sense ... Or is it just because I got a hold of something?

And after you've done that - then read your signature...

Shadowex3
17 Jun 2009, 04:16pm
My signature doesn't contradict itself at least twice in the same post.

Chobber
17 Jun 2009, 04:27pm
My signature doesn't contradict itself at least twice in the same post.

I take your lack of interest in answering my question, that you have found your common sense and can see the meaning of my oppinions and that you agree..

Have a good day..

Shadowex3
17 Jun 2009, 05:13pm
I'll take your contradictions to mean that you had no actual interest in either the para or the zombie HP discussions and just wanted to get a rise out of anyone present.

Chobber
17 Jun 2009, 11:39pm
I'll take your contradictions to mean that you had no actual interest in either the para or the zombie HP discussions and just wanted to get a rise out of anyone present.

Learn to read.. I DO have interest in the para discussion and the hp discussion .. Maybe thats why I state my oppinion in them???

PingPong
17 Jun 2009, 11:57pm
GUYS, HONESTLY, lets not start a flame war. This thread was made to discuss the hp of zombies, not to talk shit to eachother. If you have nothing to say about raising the zombie hp then dont say anything at all! All your doing is causing drama and pissing people off, in other words STFU! some people are just unbelivable...

Shadowex3
18 Jun 2009, 02:45am
Is this where we all get together and tell pingpong not to ruin a perfectly good E-Argument?

Ontopic: Paras are reasonable or unreasonable entirely depending on zombie hp and something we've been ignoring so far, regen. 6kHP zombies that regen 100hp every 1 second and burn once (1 minute to go back to full HP, most maps are only 3-4 minutes) can stand up to a para much better than 3Khp no-regen zombies that burn as many times as they get hit by nades. Bump the regen on 6kHP zombies up to 100hp/.5sec so it takes 30 seconds, which remember is pretty long in a 4 minute long map, and you've got zombies that are frightening to any ONE person but are much less threatening to any GROUP of people since their sustained firepower will easily overload the regen.

High regen with medium HP would give you zombies that can't be pistol-kited to death by one or two guys but can still be cornered and killed by a few people with rifles or more than 1 para.

PingPong
18 Jun 2009, 11:15am
Is this where we all get together and tell pingpong not to ruin a perfectly good E-Argument?

Ontopic: Paras are reasonable or unreasonable entirely depending on zombie hp and something we've been ignoring so far, regen. 6kHP zombies that regen 100hp every 1 second and burn once (1 minute to go back to full HP, most maps are only 3-4 minutes) can stand up to a para much better than 3Khp no-regen zombies that burn as many times as they get hit by nades. Bump the regen on 6kHP zombies up to 100hp/.5sec so it takes 30 seconds, which remember is pretty long in a 4 minute long map, and you've got zombies that are frightening to any ONE person but are much less threatening to any GROUP of people since their sustained firepower will easily overload the regen.

High regen with medium HP would give you zombies that can't be pistol-kited to death by one or two guys but can still be cornered and killed by a few people with rifles or more than 1 para.
Well how would the zombies die, if they had constant regen on they could just go away somewhere and hide so they can get full heatlth. I know what your getting at but i just dont see how it would work

Gumpy
18 Jun 2009, 03:50pm
Well how would the zombies die, if they had constant regen on they could just go away somewhere and hide so they can get full heatlth. I know what your getting at but i just dont see how it would work

It's not about hp, it's about knockback. It doesn't matter if the zombies won't die, as long as you can still shoot them back you will never get caught.

I really hope hp gets brought up, it would promote teamwork and also I find it hilarious when your fighting for you life and drowning under a tide of zombies. How epic would the last stands at the end of a map be with 20 zombies instead of 5?

Frostbyte
19 Jun 2009, 12:13am
Well how would the zombies die, if they had constant regen on they could just go away somewhere and hide so they can get full heatlth. I know what your getting at but i just dont see how it would work

Its zombie ESCAPE. You ESCAPE the zombies. If all the zombies are dead halfway through, your just racing people to get to the end.

Shadowex3
19 Jun 2009, 04:13am
^^^

The whole point of zombie escape is that you should be genuinely afraid of even ONE zombie approaching you, if anyone suggests a zombie hunt you should be filled with apprehension and dread for the possibility of a failhunt and the entire time the foremost thought in your mind should be that you don't need to outrun the zombies... just the guy next to you.

PingPong
19 Jun 2009, 10:58am
Ah ok, now i get it, thats almost making me want to come back to escape

Chobber
20 Jun 2009, 01:15am
^^^

The whole point of zombie escape is that you should be genuinely afraid of even ONE zombie approaching you, if anyone suggests a zombie hunt you should be filled with apprehension and dread for the possibility of a failhunt and the entire time the foremost thought in your mind should be that you don't need to outrun the zombies... just the guy next to you.

All in all, we seem to end up the same place and agree...

Just not on which route we should take to get there ;)

Shadowex3
20 Jun 2009, 07:43am
If the para is a "dear god please let me have enough bullets" gun instead of a "haha, 5 points!" gun I've got no beef with it. The problem is that even getting the health raised to just 6,000 probably without any real regen is proving to be impossible despite overwhelming support for it, so in the meantime something needs to be done about the masses of paras.

Chobber
21 Jun 2009, 02:39pm
Thats why I would like to see the HP bumped up QUITE A BIT!! And the paras as they are now, or limited .... Depending on the amount of z-hp..

Shadowex3
21 Jun 2009, 03:00pm
So does basically everyone else, by a vote of 50+ to 9, but higher up the chain there's a veto somewhere.