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Maxwelldon
2 Apr 2009, 06:59pm
Well I noticed there been whole bunch of heat on the subject and people gets irritated by some people gaining major advantages from Bunny-Hopping - here is a little piece of Bunny-Hopping for everyone! :clap:

As it has turned out - We here on SteamGamers.com have come to conclusion of disallow gaining major advantages from bunnyhopping. It's cheap, cheat'ish and annoying to a whole lot of people if someone comes on server and just starts Speed-Leech with bunnyhop, then just basically flies though the map with couple jumps.


Notice that Bunny-Hopping is Not allowed to be used for major advantages if you didn't bother read the smaller text.
:mad:

As an Bunny-Hopper and a long time member of the community, I'm annoyed by the fact that people sort of abuses Bunny-Hopping to gain major advantage in order to get to end of map faster or to get away from busses way too easily in "Busses from hell" in Minigames.. I've decided to post here for everyone some settings that they Should use while on SG servers and Bunny-Hopping.. Also, at the end of post you'll find an informative video about Bunny-Hopping, which really helps if you want to learn how to Bunny-Hop.

As mentioned above, twice; Bunny-Hopping is NOT allowed to be used to gain major advantages.
So, here is the settings I personally use and as you know; No scripts, no fakes, no bullshit, no nothing.
Just pure timing, learning and practice is how I bhop..

The settings I use on pretty much Any server listed below;

cl_cmdrate 95
cl_updaterate 90
rate 23000
cl_interp 0.0125
fps_max 65
- I varie my FPS_MAX from 65 to 135. Default I use is 125




Here's a good informative video about Bunny-Hopping for who wants to learn.
TV5FGmAEQHg


Now some info how to go privately practice Bunny-Hopping, after the video;
First join a server with 66 or 100 tick - or start game with parameter "-tickrate 100"

After that, just pick a BHOP map via console, for eg;
map bhop_advi

After you have loaded the map, do following settings;
sv_airaccelerate 100
sv_accelerate 5

- After that just do as you were instructed on the video above. Enjoy!

Paul
2 Apr 2009, 07:02pm
I totally agree and I will start telling players not to start abusing speed leeching like this as its damn annoying.

I think freezing them would be effective in game.

Dracula
2 Apr 2009, 07:02pm
Dissagree

Maxwelldon
2 Apr 2009, 07:14pm
Dissagree
Would be more constructive if you did give reasons why you Disagree with what has been posted.
- It is fully true that leeching speed with Bhop and then bouncing through most of the map kills the meaning and fun of the game.

Dracula
2 Apr 2009, 07:18pm
Fine, I think its all good to ban for "Speed-Leeching". But I dissagree with scripts or bind aka "No scripts, no fakes, no bullshit, no nothing" because it is quite hard to see if its a script or say just Mouse Wheel up or Mouse Wheel Down.

Maxwelldon
2 Apr 2009, 07:22pm
Fine, I think its all good to ban for "Speed-Leeching". But I dissagree with scripts or bind aka "No scripts, no fakes, no bullshit, no nothing" because it is quite ahrd to see if its a script or say just Mouse Wheel up or Mouse Wheel Down.
Bhopping with wheel seems fine as long as you can utilize it through personal experience and skill instead of scripts or some similar. Practice makes perfect :wink:

ikemike
2 Apr 2009, 08:40pm
Question: Bhoping through traps allowed, disallowed? speedleaching seems more like the binded circle jump some people use to get 600+ vel.

Shadowex3
2 Apr 2009, 08:43pm
Except I can mwheel bhop as a zomb to use failnades and knockback to my advantage on VIP but on Escape1 I stick to the ground for a second and can't rejump fast enough all the time >.>

One thing I don't get are your rate suggestions... why is your "rate" command set at only 23,000? I use 300,000 whenever possible and hardly ever get anywhere near maxing out my paltry ~500kbps upstream DSL bandwidth, let alone the 3mbits I get down. Also cl_interp doesn't work anymore since valve now controls that through cl_interp_ratio which can be either 1 or 2 and the cmdrate and updaterate commands should ideally both be set at 100 and let the server cap you out since anyone with more than 500kbps bandwidth will likely never saturate.

But both of those are pointless since Source engine games cap your updaterate based on your framerate!. If you cap your framerate at 65, you get your rates capped at 65. This is one of the reasons why fps_max and vsync are evil and it's better to just learn to live with tearing or get a decent monitor.

Ideally you want your framerate uncapped on a CRT, and capped at the lowest multiple of a flatpanel's refresh rate that is higher than your desired rates. For most people that will be 120, or 2x60hz.

Maxwelldon
2 Apr 2009, 10:16pm
Except I can mwheel bhop as a zomb to use failnades and knockback to my advantage on VIP but on Escape1 I stick to the ground for a second and can't rejump fast enough all the time >.>

One thing I don't get are your rate suggestions... why is your "rate" command set at only 23,000? I use 300,000 whenever possible and hardly ever get anywhere near maxing out my paltry ~500kbps upstream DSL bandwidth, let alone the 3mbits I get down. Also cl_interp doesn't work anymore since valve now controls that through cl_interp_ratio which can be either 1 or 2 and the cmdrate and updaterate commands should ideally both be set at 100 and let the server cap you out since anyone with more than 500kbps bandwidth will likely never saturate.

But both of those are pointless since Source engine games cap your updaterate based on your framerate!. If you cap your framerate at 65, you get your rates capped at 65. This is one of the reasons why fps_max and vsync are evil and it's better to just learn to live with tearing or get a decent monitor.

Ideally you want your framerate uncapped on a CRT, and capped at the lowest multiple of a flatpanel's refresh rate that is higher than your desired rates. For most people that will be 120, or 2x60hz.

Personally I use those rates.. Habbit to leave them uneven like that due fact that I needed to always find optimized rates at one point.. Yet I don't know why but for me the specific settings mentioned above work fine and at some points better than the full 100 ones.. :toung:

VirDeBello
2 Apr 2009, 11:39pm
Why is your FPS on 125? The human eye can only see like 80 FPS so its just a waste of electricity and power. Unless you are on crack or speed or both. Then keep up that FPS :thumb:

Thanks for the post

Shadowex3
3 Apr 2009, 02:07am
Sigh, that myth's been beaten to hell and back. Some people can hear dog whistles and straight-tones in the 24khz range (supposedly well beyond human hearing), some people can hear the high-pitched whine of electronics, some people can readily tell the difference between 60hz and 85hz, and when they tested airforce pilots they were able to identify a specific jet when it was flashed for only 1/220th of a second.

First it was 18-24fps since that's what the "frames" of film projections ran at, then it was ~30fps since that was what many console games could manage, then it was 60fps with the advent of flatpanels, and now it's getting back up into the 80's again as flatpanel refresh rates slowly catch up to low-end CRTs. But if you really believe that myth, go get a CRT and set it's refresh rate to 60, 75, and then 80hz and see if you don't notice a difference. Or better yet go play any game and try alternating between 80fps and 120+fps, it makes a difference.

The thing is that like most senses this is an individual thing and just as people who spend lots of time playing FPSes have a much better ability to discern fine differences in color and contrast some people are also much more capable of discerning differing framerates and refresh rates.


If nothing else, You'll also be sabotaging your rates in the process, but go ahead and give the rest of us an advantage if you want >D

VirDeBello
3 Apr 2009, 02:22am
Well this is what 60 FPS got me so I am pretty sure your 200 FPS eyes can get something better :heh: http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=178702#post178702

So this means we can now ban for b hopping on any server or just deathrun? Because on Jurrasic Park when they truck reached the gate where the heli picks you up. I just tap spacebar jump button down that little slope. So was up?

Paronic
3 Apr 2009, 03:48am
thanks for the info. A lil tip i find that helps is starting on a slight hill, this helps build a lil momentum.

Maxwelldon
3 Apr 2009, 04:49am
The FPS doesn't seem to affect much more than how smooth your game will run.. At least I like to play with more stable FPS instead of having it bounce from 120 to 300+
- Not the most fun thing to have sudden drops there..

Also, just as I see people go on about fps, please stop it under this thread. We didn't come here to show off with scores either. We're here to try keep under the topic here!

Huwajux
3 Apr 2009, 05:31am
So this means we can now ban for b hopping on any server or just deathrun? Because on Jurrasic Park when they truck reached the gate where the heli picks you up. I just tap spacebar jump button down that little slope. So was up?
The kind of bhopping that is not allowed is when people gain incredibly unfair velocities because of a trick where you can jump in a perfect circle. The person just needs to keep using their mousewheel in order to jump, and then they hold down whatever key it is they have it set to in order for their screen to turn at a precise speed towards a certain direction.

That's quite a mouthful, so I'll give you an example. Let's say that I have binded my V key so that it rotates my view in-game at a set speed. Now, if I begin to jump and hold down this key while doing so, I am gaining speed with every jump I make. Around 700 units is the terminal velocity for this trick. It is basically a lazy version of pre-speeding. Pre-speeding you may see when bhoppers are about to take a large jump or go through a huge trap. They jump in a figure-8 circle and this builds up their speed. Of course the speed that can be reached by pre-speeding in a figure-8 is determined by the individual's skill level. However, the "Speed-leeching" trick that people are using is taking skill out of the equation, as someone has discovered a bind that will allow people to perform a "perfect pre-speed", meaning that people can now easily reach velocities to that of the pro-extreme bhoppers.

This then enables people to 'leech' off this speed that has been gained from jumping in a perfect circle and thus results in them having the ability to jump through entire deathrun maps. Also, setting your max fps to 30 gives people more time to well...time their jump when bhopping, meaning that even more skill-requirements are being taken out of the equation.

For servers like zombie escape, the tic rate is at 33. When a server has this tic rate it is basically impossible to bunnyhop, especially when the air acceleration is set at 10. So do not worry about these kinds of bunnyhoppers on the Zombie servers.

SteamGamer's servers at the moment do not allow people to use this trick at all. However, if someone has the ability to bhop quite fast purely through skill, then we allow them to use this to their advantage for 1 or 2 traps which may prove difficult for people who cannot bhop.

Admins should look out for "Speed leechers" on both the deathrun and minigame servers.

Maxwelldon
3 Apr 2009, 06:03am
The kind of bhopping that is not allowed is when people gain incredibly unfair velocities because of a trick where you can jump in a perfect circle. The person just needs to keep using their mousewheel in order to jump, and then they hold down whatever key it is they have it set to in order for their screen to turn at a precise speed towards a certain direction.

That's quite a mouthful, so I'll give you an example. Let's say that I have binded my V key so that it rotates my view in-game at a set speed. Now, if I begin to jump and hold down this key while doing so, I am gaining speed with every jump I make. Around 700 units is the terminal velocity for this trick. It is basically a lazy version of pre-speeding. Pre-speeding you may see when bhoppers are about to take a large jump or go through a huge trap. They jump in a figure-8 circle and this builds up their speed. Of course the speed that can be reached by pre-speeding in a figure-8 is determined by the individual's skill level. However, the "Speed-leeching" trick that people are using is taking skill out of the equation, as someone has discovered a bind that will allow people to perform a "perfect pre-speed", meaning that people can now easily reach velocities to that of the pro-extreme bhoppers.

This then enables people to 'leech' off this speed that has been gained from jumping in a perfect circle and thus results in them having the ability to jump through entire deathrun maps. Also, setting your max fps to 30 gives people more time to well...time their jump when bhopping, meaning that even more skill-requirements are being taken out of the equation.

For servers like zombie escape, the tic rate is at 33. When a server has this tic rate it is basically impossible to bunnyhop, especially when the air acceleration is set at 10. So do not worry about these kinds of bunnyhoppers on the Zombie servers.

SteamGamer's servers at the moment do not allow people to use this trick at all. However, if someone has the ability to bhop quite fast purely through skill, then we allow them to use this to their advantage for 1 or 2 traps which may prove difficult for people who cannot bhop.

Admins should look out for "Speed leechers" on both the deathrun and minigame servers. With all that said, I quite fairly agree. Thing with the speed-leeching just kills the fu nand meaning of certain gametypes.
Personally even tho I can bhop pretty well, I don't use it to gain much of an advantage but then again amuse myself for catching people up if I'm behind. Using bhop to pass bunch of traps just seems to me that you take away a meaning of deathrun.

Just use common sense and some consideration if you see people bhop. It's cheap if it is constantly used to gain advantages.

ps. I've never used scripts, neither should you. Learning it yourself is the best bet to go with.

Huwajux
3 Apr 2009, 07:29am
Oh and also, telling the difference between a scripter and a legit bhopper.

Scripting is nothing to do with the speed leechers. A script is a third-party program which is run alongside Counterstrike in order to manipulate the physics engine and create an unfair advantage.

To tell whether someone is using a script/hack for bunnyhopping, it is quite simple (in principle). They will gain speed purely by jumping. For example, if you spectate someone using a bunnyhop script, they can just keep jumping in a straight line and gain speeds equal to that of bhoppers. However it's never as easy as that, is it? Most scripters will try to hide their hacks by mimicking what real bhoppers do. However they tend to fail miserably most of the time because although they move their mouse around a bit, they are ultimately still jumping in a straight line.

Scripters may also reach insane velocities of around 850+ units. Please do not get a scripter and a speed leecher mixed up. Most speed leechers cannot actually bhop and eventually slow down (but obviously over a longer time period than usual players).

ikemike
3 Apr 2009, 07:39am
alright so you can bhop traps as long as you dont over do it?

Huwajux
3 Apr 2009, 08:11am
alright so you can bhop traps as long as you dont over do it?
Basically.

Shadowex3
3 Apr 2009, 03:32pm
Huwajux, a script is anything that uses the bind and alias commands built into the game to automate something. My buyscript thread in the escape forums is a script since it automates buying weapons to various keys. a HOOK is a seperate program or DLL that interferes with the game while it's running and tends to set off VAC.

BOOWY
4 Apr 2009, 01:09am
I can explain why lowering your FPS helps with bunny hopping but it's really technical. Your FPS count controls much much more than just what you see on the screen. I don't claim to know how most game engines work, but for the one I'm working with for college, every frame triggers a redrawing of the "scene"(your level, objects and players at their updated positions). Lowering your FPS lowers the redraw calls. So what does this have to do with bunny hopping? Your character is in the scene! Everything you do client-side is affected by your FPS. Physics calculations can and probably occur on every frame(which makes sense really, why would you calculate trivial things two or three times for every one frame drawn?). Lowering your FPS helps you bunny hop because you're lowering the rate of CSS's physics calculations on your character, notably the calculations that make you slow down when you land on the ground. On every frame the game picks up what keys have been pressed down, which ones are still being pressed down and which ones have just been lifted up. Because you're lowering your FPS, you're giving yourself a wider window to line up a jump button press with physics calculations on your character having just landed(which skips the act of slowing your character down if timed right).

Effectively if you go from 30 FPS to 60 FPS, you're making it twice as hard on yourself to bunny hop.

Maxwelldon
4 Apr 2009, 06:00am
I can explain why lowering your FPS helps with bunny hopping but it's really technical. Your FPS count controls much much more than just what you see on the screen. I don't claim to know how most game engines work, but for the one I'm working with for college, every frame triggers a redrawing of the "scene"(your level, objects and players at their updated positions). Lowering your FPS lowers the redraw calls. So what does this have to do with bunny hopping? Your character is in the scene! Everything you do client-side is affected by your FPS. Physics calculations can and probably occur on every frame(which makes sense really, why would you calculate trivial things two or three times for every one frame drawn?). Lowering your FPS helps you bunny hop because you're lowering the rate of CSS's physics calculations on your character, notably the calculations that make you slow down when you land on the ground. On every frame the game picks up what keys have been pressed down, which ones are still being pressed down and which ones have just been lifted up. Because you're lowering your FPS, you're giving yourself a wider window to line up a jump button press with physics calculations on your character having just landed(which skips the act of slowing your character down if timed right).

Effectively if you go from 30 FPS to 60 FPS, you're making it twice as hard on yourself to bunny hop.

That was quite informative but yet again, FPS 30 seems cheat'ish because of that wider window where you can jump - thus dropping the actualy skill requirement out of the equation.. Personally it's just something I don't like to do and I'm just used to smoother FPS.. So I don't like going under 65fps limit too much :blink1:

|UFB|Assassin
4 Apr 2009, 07:32am
so i cant bhop on bigloop anymore?... Its a major major major advantage... but then again... its surfing.

Huwajux
4 Apr 2009, 08:11am
Huwajux, a script is anything that uses the bind and alias commands built into the game to automate something. My buyscript thread in the escape forums is a script since it automates buying weapons to various keys. a HOOK is a seperate program or DLL that interferes with the game while it's running and tends to set off VAC.
I call hacks scripts because that's what they are. Someone has scripted a program to run alongside Counterstrike in order for them (and others) to gain major advantages. 'Script' can be used to define both your definition or mine though.

Maxwelldon
4 Apr 2009, 09:04am
I call hacks scripts because that's what they are. Someone has scripted a program to run alongside Counterstrike in order for them (and others) to gain major advantages. 'Script' can be used to define both your definition or mine though. Mmm.. Yea, everything is usually scripted indeed and it requires coding / sciptin to inject things into game as well. Like wallhack, its based on ingame settings which are forcefully enabled by injected script.. Thus making it a hack, as it enables functions which shouldn't truly be on for players..

Tho please try stick to the Bhop topic as of this post, please. :wink:

KaMiKaZi
6 Apr 2009, 03:25am
i think this is a rubish idea tbh bunnyhopping is a fun thing to do and its never been a problem before as long as i can remember and y would it be now your just sapping some fun out of this community

Huwajux
6 Apr 2009, 04:07am
i think this is a rubish idea tbh bunnyhopping is a fun thing to do and its never been a problem before as long as i can remember and y would it be now your just sapping some fun out of this community
We have no problem with purely skill-based bunnyhopping, it's the binders who reach immense speeds unfairly and ruin the game for others. Have you not seen it happen?

Maxwelldon
6 Apr 2009, 07:23am
i think this is a rubish idea tbh bunnyhopping is a fun thing to do and its never been a problem before as long as i can remember and y would it be now your just sapping some fun out of this community
We have no problem with purely skill-based bunnyhopping, it's the binders who reach immense speeds unfairly and ruin the game for others. Have you not seen it happen?

True what Huwajux is saying.

This whole issue came up solely due to fact that people use bhop to literally cheat and pass traps or avoid something else on our servers. Like, "busses from hell" on minigames, people go 500+ velocity all the time and it's nearly impossible catch them with busses..

Or on deathrun people almost flies through Whole map.. That's just utterly lame and ruins the fun for other players. Also that is the point where the specific game types lose their meanings.
I still bunnyhop and allow people to do it but if it is extensive, then I tell them to not do it so much - which usually works.. Rare case just gets kicked or slayed for keep doing it.

trakaill
6 Apr 2009, 09:47am
i think this is a rubish idea tbh bunnyhopping is a fun thing to do and its never been a problem before as long as i can remember and y would it be now your just sapping some fun out of this community

Adding to what Max said, this whole bind with low fps stuff didnt come up until a few month back, I saw Troy doing it for the first time and I was like wtf..and he told me what was going on!

Shadowex3
6 Apr 2009, 12:52pm
i think this is a rubish idea tbh bunnyhopping is a fun thing to do and its never been a problem before as long as i can remember and y would it be now your just sapping some fun out of this community

Kamikazi the playerspeed with a scout is 260 units per second. Normal bunnyhopping will maybe let you get into the low 300's IF you get something to boost you and you can hold the momentum, this exploit gets you 500+. That's 2 to 3 times the speed of a player with a scout, it's closer to how fast you fly around when in spectator.

KaMiKaZi
6 Apr 2009, 04:14pm
i misunderstood what you meant i thought u meant u wont be able to bunnyhop at all and ye stupid speeds are anoying but tbh i can get to stupid speeds but i dont because it is unfair so i get what u mean as i said though i thought u meant u cant bhop at all full stop.

FightingRooster
10 Apr 2009, 05:17pm
Understandable. I hate when people speed leech on deathrun 3 floors and get through the whole map wayy too fast.

mr_cap
28 Apr 2009, 01:12pm
i agree. its a good skill but if its abused then its no good.

Harpr33t
28 Apr 2009, 05:17pm
I see Max that your doing a good thing , its just that there are admins that still bhop on minigames and deathrun....