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View Full Version : Speed-leeching on Deathrun



Huwajux
23 Mar 2009, 10:19am
I'd like to ask this to be an official rule. On the deathrun server I'm always being spammed with complaints about "Hackers" who just complete the entire map in a couple of jumps, where even the T's enhanced speed cannot keep up.

These people are in fact NOT hackers, but the consequences of their actions are just as bad. A bind has been created in which people have the ability to jump in a perfect circle. With the addition of the jump function being binded to the mouse wheel, this enables people to reach amazing speeds topping that of 700 units. As the server is 66 tic people can also set their max fps to 30, as this gives them a longer amount of time to jump correctly.

People will sit in spawn jumping around in a perfect circle (Which is clearly not possible with the use of a mouse) using this bind until they gain enough speed to leap half of the map in a few jumps. No bunnyhopping skill is required for this, but I have even seen people who can bunnyhop use this 'trick' (even admins).

If there could be a rule which prevented players from using this cheap trick, that would be much appreciated because it ruins the entire point of deathrun. In deathrun you are meant to either go when you think the T is not expecting you, or keep trying the elasti-jump trick, not jump the entire map just to reach the end and bag an easy kill.

Note: If there has already been a thread made for this, just tell me and I'll put my two cents in.

trakaill
23 Mar 2009, 11:13am
Ive made inquiries with the same points, No real bhopper can do that on 66 tics..but since its not a hack or a "script" nobody wants to come with a ruling on it...even tho it has the same result.:wink:

Lux
24 Mar 2009, 03:06pm
Getting fed up of people using this trick. I don't care if its not a "hack" its a MASSIVELY unfair advantage and should be made a BANNABLE offence.

SneakySnake
24 Mar 2009, 03:26pm
Agreed. Even I've stopped using the trick, as it got boring fast.

Cooki3Monsta
24 Mar 2009, 03:26pm
I like this thing =( - j/k if only I knew how to do it lolz.

andre1028
24 Mar 2009, 04:32pm
I do it sometimes.

Suri
24 Mar 2009, 07:55pm
Ive made inquiries with the same points, No real bhopper can do that on 66 tics..but since its not a hack or a "script" nobody wants to come with a ruling on it...even tho it has the same result.:wink:

Does it effect the game play? If so then we need to look at maybe not letting this happen. If it effects the out come of the game in a major way then maybe it needs to be a rule that you can'y do it.

CandleJack
24 Mar 2009, 08:07pm
Does it effect the game play? If so then we need to look at maybe not letting this happen. If it effects the out come of the game in a major way then maybe it needs to be a rule that you can'y do it.

BASICALLY wat happens is when the said Person is bhopping we waste many traps trying to kill him thus we let the other team by and if we don't then he gets to the end and we die it is very annoying

Shadowex3
24 Mar 2009, 08:17pm
Does it effect the game play? If so then we need to look at maybe not letting this happen. If it effects the out come of the game in a major way then maybe it needs to be a rule that you can'y do it.

If you've ever played the original half-life you probably remember the "longjump module" you got at the end of the singleplayer and on some multiplayer maps in deathmatch.

Imagine a combination of that and bunnyhopping but so fast that even Escape2's VIP would be left in the dust. Or alternatively just picture zombies that can failnade at will.

Huwajux
25 Mar 2009, 03:27am
Does it effect the game play? If so then we need to look at maybe not letting this happen. If it effects the out come of the game in a major way then maybe it needs to be a rule that you can'y do it.
It does affect the outcome of the game majorly. Despite the terrorists having an increased running speed, it is no match for people who use this trick. The terrorists are usually caught off guard and the person bhopping usually makes it through the entire map whilst everyone else is still at the third or fourth trap.

Even if the terrorists were prepared for this trick, the bhopper can sometimes clear entire traps just by jumping over them, and if they happen to actually touch the trap then it is for such a small amount of time that it is nearly impossible for the terrorists to react. This is especially a problem when there is only one terrorist, because he has to skip the first couple of traps in order to get ready for the bhopper. This enables all the other counter-terrorists a free pass through the first few traps.

If you decide to counter this problem, please don't change the server settings, just make it a rule that admins can enforce. I say this because the people who can actually bhop properly will lose out. When people bhop properly on deathrun, it can only trick the terrorists for one trap, two if you're lucky. After that the terrorist is prepared.

Suri
25 Mar 2009, 09:04am
I would say the rule would be ask them to stop using the script ( Might have to ask twice). If they don't stop using it then move them to spec, or kick them from the server. I would like a ban to be the very very last thing you have to go to. And if it is a ban it should only be a 5min up to a hour.

BUT before anything is official I need to make sure all the BD's agree on this.

Metal
25 Mar 2009, 09:18am
I think you guys are taking it to far.
If its not a hack get over it.
But
It is unfair but this is all part of the game and how people mod or somehow do this

Mystique
25 Mar 2009, 10:54am
I think you guys are taking it to far.
If its not a hack get over it.
But
It is unfair but this is all part of the game and how people mod or somehow do this

Deathrun is about CT's tricking T's into setting off traps, not CT's to fly through a map and kill the T's in like 2 minutes. Where is the fun in that? It's supposed to be a challenge..

If people continue doing those tricks on the DR server, a lot of people will lose interest in my opinion because there is absolutely nothing to challenge anymore..

Jimbo
25 Mar 2009, 03:37pm
its not fair in anyway and people should get banned for it. If you have to use it too play or do use it your sad and should just kill urself..

Huwajux
26 Mar 2009, 06:55am
its not fair in anyway and people should get banned for it. If you have to use it too play or do use it your sad and should just kill urself..
Whoa there, calm it!

I would say the rule would be ask them to stop using the script ( Might have to ask twice). If they don't stop using it then move them to spec, or kick them from the server. I would like a ban to be the very very last thing you have to go to. And if it is a ban it should only be a 5min up to a hour.

BUT before anything is official I need to make sure all the BD's agree on this.
Thanks for giving us admins some ground to stand on with this matter. I know it isn't much but these minor punishments should help get the idea across that using this bind is not allowed. Looking forward to the BD's decision.

XeNo
26 Mar 2009, 08:26am
Does it effect the game play? If so then we need to look at maybe not letting this happen. If it effects the out come of the game in a major way then maybe it needs to be a rule that you can'y do it.
...Duh.

This bhop issue has been brought up three times before, twice in server admin only section and everyone has agreed that it disrupts gameplay and gives a very large unfair advantage.

The only argument anyone can make that it should be allowed has been 'GAME LETS YOU DO IT SO IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED'. Games also 'let' you hack them and use cheats, but doesn't mean they were meant to be there.

I think you guys are taking it to far.
If its not a hack get over it.
But
It is unfair but this is all part of the game and how people mod or somehow do this
What...?

It's not part of the game, it's an exploit of game dynamics. They did and were never intending to make bunnyhopping part of normal CS:S gameplay.

I'm pretty sure not once while they were thinking of ways to improve counter strike they thought 'OH SWEET, LETS MAKE IT SO THEY CAN ZOOM THROUGH A MAP IN 4 JUMPS LOL ITLL BE AWSUM'.

Counter-Strike has loopholes in it's coding that allows you to use wallhacks, aimbots, among other things, does that mean it's part of the game? I mean, technically they're only using the same coding that the game came with, just for an unfair advantage.

We should definitely just get over it, and we're totally taking it too far. I agree with fullmetal.

Huwajux
26 Mar 2009, 09:37am
We should definitely just get over it, and we're totally taking it too far. I agree with fullmetal.
Too far? We are only looking to make it punishable.

Lux
26 Mar 2009, 01:51pm
Too far? We are only looking to make it punishable.

*hint* *hint*

/sarcasm

Gumpy
26 Mar 2009, 02:24pm
*hint* *hint*

/sarcasm

It's too hard to detect sarcasm without the sarcastic tone of voice...

Lux
26 Mar 2009, 02:41pm
It's too hard to detect sarcasm without the sarcastic tone of voice...

Well the "What?" when Xeno quoted fullmetal was a start :tape:

XeNo
26 Mar 2009, 02:49pm
It's too hard to detect sarcasm without the sarcastic tone of voice...
I was pretty sure the first 3 or 4 sentences after me quoting him, stating the different ways his post is entirely wrong and why it shouldn't be seen as a valid argument would have given it away.

Don't worry, next time I'll be sure to include visual aid if possible.
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9084/sarcasmvisualaid.jpg

trakaill
26 Mar 2009, 03:54pm
Too far? We are only looking to make it punishable.

Lol:confused:

But to add to what Xeno said originaly I read somewhere that they were supposed to get rid of Bhoping on the new engine (source engine, which was diferent than the ones on the previous CSS) when it came out..but it obviously failed..
So Im pretty sure bhoping wasnt suppose to be part of CS-source to begin with!
But yeah as I said many times "unfair advantage=hack/script" this comes very close to that and deserves proper handeling such as punishment!

EDIT: Xeno you win on the last post!

Shadowex3
26 Mar 2009, 05:55pm
There's actually a very clear black and white distinction. Something becomes reasonably prohibitable when it breaks the game. That is when it's something that by it's very nature can only be countered by that thing itself and removes all ability to play in any other way.

Quickswitching the AWP in CSS doesn't count because it's still perfectly possible to plant a shot right between the dude's eyes, it upsets the balance but not gamebreakingly so.

Speed leeching breaks the game by making it inherently impossible to play the game at all while it's going on, you either let everyone else win by trying (often fruitlessly) to get the bhopper somehow and then everyone else rapes you or you play normally and then he rapes you.

|UFB|Assassin
26 Mar 2009, 06:07pm
r u guys maybe talking about the yawspeed trick? cause if ur not then thats what i use to "speed leech". I dont play much on the dr server so i wouldnt know if its a bannable offense, so is it legal or illegal?

ReGIONALS
27 Mar 2009, 09:26pm
i have a logitech mx620 mouse and its got a hyper speed scroll meaning it pretty much freefalls until the kinetic energy runs out and i have my jump set to scroll up so im able to jump again as soon as i hit the ground.
should i take my jump of scroll?
am i breaking rules in anyway?

Shadowex3
28 Mar 2009, 02:40am
We're talking about a special action that lets you move something like 5x the speed of normal, literally FLYING through the maps at Mach Fuck. Just straight bunnyhopping won't let you do that.

Huwajux
28 Mar 2009, 09:32am
i have a logitech mx620 mouse and its got a hyper speed scroll meaning it pretty much freefalls until the kinetic energy runs out and i have my jump set to scroll up so im able to jump again as soon as i hit the ground.
should i take my jump of scroll?
am i breaking rules in anyway?
That's fine, we are talking about a bind a bit more complex than just "bind mwheelup +jump".

Maxwelldon
28 Mar 2009, 11:24am
Honest speaking - I dislike the perfect circles since they are naturally impossible.. Yet people do these with the binds and it's rather cheap in my opinion. I've learned personally to use mouse and make movement of 8 in order to gain speed, which is the preferred way to do it in first place anyway..

Also as pointed out; deathrun loses it's meaning if people top up the velocity and bounces with couple jumps to the end.. That's rather lame and in my opinion should be disallowed as "ruining gaming experience."

|UFB|Assassin
29 Mar 2009, 05:04pm
they arent naturaly impossible, if u use you're arrow keys and keep bhopping, ull go in perfect circles, and if ur fast enough to grab ur mouse when u gain enough speed, then i guess its all natural. if u have the 5th or 6th button on ur mouse, u can bind that to it and use the perfect circles.

i dont know if this is what ur talking about but its what i do to get perfect circles.

Shadowex3
29 Mar 2009, 08:48pm
If your framerate changes you wont get perfect circles, if your ping changes you wont get perfect circles, if your rates change (usually due to the framerate) you wont get perfect circles...

Maxwelldon
30 Mar 2009, 03:19am
they arent naturaly impossible, if u use you're arrow keys and keep bhopping, ull go in perfect circles, and if ur fast enough to grab ur mouse when u gain enough speed, then i guess its all natural. if u have the 5th or 6th button on ur mouse, u can bind that to it and use the perfect circles.

i dont know if this is what ur talking about but its what i do to get perfect circles.
I'm pointing to the fact that you have to hold Strafe Right, Turn Right and keep jumping at the same time to make the circles; This is rather something that steps in the extra buttons or alias commands with repeat-feed. Personally I think it's cheap and cheat'ish to get 600+ velocity that way than getting the speed by yourself instead.. At least I find it more satisfying when I know and I can actually gain the speed with skill :: instead cheap way of just holding two buttons and spam mousewheel to jump..

Itch
30 Mar 2009, 10:56am
I have only see it used a few times and in those extreme cases yes it was game ruining. I would recommend we warn/move to spec/kick/5 min ban max.

As for standard b-hop it doesn't really affect the outcome and so I could care less if you do it.

Frostbyte
30 Mar 2009, 01:56pm
Better yet, freeze the fuckers.

ikemike
30 Mar 2009, 08:24pm
I approve of the bannable circle jumping but please keep bhoping! Traps would be so unfair to cts without it.

XeNo
31 Mar 2009, 03:13am
Better yet, freeze the fuckers.
On a mod where the only way they die is from traps and if they stand still they don't die.

Good suggestion, putting into effect shortly.

SneakySnake
31 Mar 2009, 06:41am
I approve of the bannable circle jumping but please keep bhoping! Traps would be so unfair to cts without it.

How would it be unfair? We used to play deathrun without...and we always played without it because we never knew of it.

Widow
31 Mar 2009, 08:50am
Its a fuckin script, scripts are illegal end of. USE IT AND TASTE BANHAMMER

Paul
31 Mar 2009, 09:09am
Its a fuckin script, scripts are illegal end of. USE IT AND TASTE BANHAMMER

Its a console command that allows you to bhop alot easier and faster. I think it should be banable.

Widow
31 Mar 2009, 09:14am
Its a console command that allows you to bhop alot easier and faster. I think it should be banable.

what what command is that lol ??? the one were u spin on the spot ?

Frostbyte
31 Mar 2009, 02:39pm
On a mod where the only way they die is from traps and if they stand still they don't die.

Good suggestion, putting into effect shortly.

Good point.

Jimbo
31 Mar 2009, 03:18pm
what what command is that lol ??? the one were u spin on the spot ?


i belive you type.

demos

in console.

|UFB|Assassin
31 Mar 2009, 07:26pm
So speed leeching is illegal... not bhop? cuz i feel like everytime i jump 3 times in a row maintaining the same regular velocity as running, and admin pops up and says, "Assassin dont bhop or slay"

Lux
1 Apr 2009, 03:54am
So speed leeching is illegal... not bhop? cuz i feel like everytime i jump 3 times in a row maintaining the same regular velocity as running, and admin pops up and says, "Assassin dont bhop or slay"

I'm 99% sure that bunnyhopping is not against the rules. But this particular form of bunny hopping gives far too much an advantage.

Longwave
1 Apr 2009, 05:21am
I'm 99% sure that bunnyhopping is not against the rules. But this particular form of bunny hopping gives far too much an advantage.

agreed.

XeNo
1 Apr 2009, 06:05am
Wow guys...There's already been plenty of rulings on this.

Bhop is fine if you can do it with skill, i.e. bhopping a few jumps to try and avoid a trap.

Bhop is not allowed to be used to a major advantage, i.e. jumping in a circle and gaining 700+ velocity and then entirely skipping through the entire map in a few jumps. Or, in minigames using it to make it to the end of backalley in a few jumps, or avoiding buses from hell easily.

fury
1 Apr 2009, 06:26pm
ok so I am allowed to bhop but just not allowed to speed leach(that i cant even do) ?

SneakySnake
2 Apr 2009, 01:56pm
ok so I am allowed to bhop but just not allowed to speed leach(that i cant even do) ?

You can bhop, just keep your FPS above 50, which doesn't give you any advantage. It's physically impossible to reach 450+ velocity from normal bhop.

|UFB|Assassin
2 Apr 2009, 03:47pm
Okay so let me get this straight. We can bhop, as long as we just bhop, and we are allowed to gain speed above average running as well?

Huwajux
3 Apr 2009, 05:37am
Okay so let me get this straight. We can bhop, as long as we just bhop, and we are allowed to gain speed above average running as well?
Here (http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=178739#post178739) is your answer.